Wtf is up with people picking sides over this??? Can’t we just agree that both sides are absolutely fucking awful and the ones who are gonna suffer are all the innocent people who are just trying to live their lives?
Scum like Shapiro already had an agenda to push. For him this isn’t a tragedy, it’s an opportunity.
I think the issue is that it IS both sides doing terrible stuff, but this is not a symmetrical war.
Asymmetrical, and Isreal has been doing their damndest to make it inevitable.
100% THIS. I can’t understand and haven’t from the beginning of this disaster or human embarrassment- why people are choosing sides.
They’re both complete shit.
Yeah, ffs, if you want to fight a war, leave both side’s kids out of it.
14 and younger is too early for anyone to die, I swear if that asshole Trump really is the Antichrist (look it up, I’m no Christian but the “Kek and Medjet” meme energy is strong with that theory) and the bible was right (and if so, that these really are the end times), I hope every last person who has willingly killed a child or ordered someone to kill children goes to the 10th circle of hell or whatever passes for it, no matter what god or concept they believe in. Especially Trump (see the Mexican immigrant kids who his illegal “task force” of bigots basically kidnapped and let starve) and Putin, but that’s just the tip of the iceberg. Justice needs to be served for every child, whether they were enslaved on cocoa farms, working in slaughterhouses in the state that changed child labor laws, sent to juvenile detention for crimes they didn’t commit because the judge was getting kick-backs from a corporate prison, or killed in school shootings.
People say we hate child abuse. I strongly suspect what people really hate is the feeling of disgust that enter their heads if they hear “sex” and “kids” in the same sentence, which would be understandable if it was genuine concern (nobody, especially kids, should be subject to sex against their will, and yes, kids cannot consent) but it’s not. If it was, guns would be regulated, school bus routes would be required to never cross railroad tracks, and any leader - corporate or government - responsible for the intentional or negligent death of a child due to actions that used political/managerial authority would be executed.
I am so done with reality. Wake me up on November 12, if we’re still around by then.
Because that would mean ambiguity and people don’t like that. They want simple stories. Good guy here, bad guy there.
It’s a shit situation all around, there are no winners and no good guys in this fight.
Both of them have done war crimes. Now does the fact that the other side does war crimes allow you to do war crimes, as well?
We can do both. I think neither side has had the “moral high ground” from the very beginning of this conflict. For well over 100 years it’s been both groups using the atrocity the other group has committed against them to justify their own atrocities in return.
But at the same time when you get to the very core of the issue it’s palestine and the Arab population that were existing there first, and had the land forcibly colonised by the west despite the protests for the Arab league. Then had their minority and very recently migrated population steal their land to unilaterally declare independence.
Both sides are going about this the wrong way, but only one is also fighting for the wrong reasons.
This seems to be an “ESH” (everyone sucks here) situation. Yes, Hamas sucks more. But Israel isn’t far behind.
If you’re keeping score isreal has for sure put more points on the board.
But Hamas does suck as much as the Israeli government, yes.
The biggest victims here? The Palestinians.
The biggest victims here? The Palestinians.
We can agree on that, at least.
Shame they don’t have the ability to eradicate Hamas from their midst. But then there comes the issue of Israeli aggression and violent land appropriation.
As I pointed out, ESH.
The reason I know I’d fail as a politician is because the instant I get asked anything about Israel / Palestine, I’d either run away screaming or I’d throw my hands up and say “I’m not touching this with a ten foot pole, they both suck and everyone except the civilians caught in the crossfire deserve whatever they get.”
This whole conflict isn’t black and white morality, or even black and gray morality. It barely qualifies as black and slightly-less-black-if-you-squint morality. It’s like Luke trying to blow up the Death Star, if the Death Star was populated mostly with families, children, and puppies, and Luke ate a baby while he was rescuing the princess.
I’d either run away screaming or I’d throw my hands up and say “I’m not touching this with a ten foot pole, they both suck and everyone except the civilians caught in the crossfire deserve whatever they get.”
To me it seems like the obvious answer, from the perspective of a country that provides significant financial and military support to Israel, is to withdraw that support conditional on Israel giving a defined minimum amount of concern to not committing war crimes and human rights abuses. Things genuinely necessary for defense, fine, the rest, we should not be complicit in.
That seems like an obvious answer, but we use Israel to further our foreign policy goals in the middle east and Israel uses our money. The nation’s continued existence, not a given if foreign aid gets yanked, gives us a location from which to stage operations. That gives them significant bargaining power.
Just because the United States is always super Machiavellian about its foreign policy doesn’t make it ok to bargain with the lives of innocent people. If we acknowledge that what Israel is doing is wrong, and that we are enabling it, the right thing to do would simply be to stop enabling it. Otherwise, we are partly responsible for it.
Most of that money also goes right back to US weapons manufacturers too so it is just one form of indirect aid for the US industry.
I think this whole “who is worse” paradigm is a dead-end trap. The binary right/wrong paradigm is also useless.
The reality is that you have two incompatible populations stuck on the same chunk of land, and they are not sufficiently motivated to compromise on the key issues. That’s why this conflict has been an unresolvable stalemate for decades now. Sad to say, but all-out war is probably the only thing that can break the stalemate at this point.
Imagine having on the same place 2 presidents. 1 is Trump and the other is, let’s say, the one from Iran. Do you really think they would put the well being off the people before their own agenda? Israel has a bloody extremist leader and Hamas is another bloody extremist group. Israel’s civilian and Palestine’s civilian are just “collateral damage”.
I don’t disagree. Politicians are often selfish narcissists, especially conservative politicians. And some people just want to see the world burn. Regular people always get the shaft. Nothing new there. At the same time, we can look at both of these radical governments as alternately fueling, and being fueled by, 75 years of unresolved conflict over the same land. Peace terms have been proposed and rejected. Add in external players that ensure they both have weapons and ideological support, and war is inevitable until one side is exhausted and gives in on the key issues in dispute.
I thought Jared Kushner solved this during Trump’s presidency. Are you saying that they lied?
Jokes aside I agree. Both sides claim they want a 2 state solution, but that’s only because it’s politically convenient to say. Perhaps the Palastinians would settle for it now, since Israel has more power, but Israel really has no incentive not to just keep encroaching even more into Palestine until it’s all Israel.
Ben Shapiro
are you surprised
I don’t understand why we see Ben Shapiro posts all the time. Why do we care what he thinks. He’s irrelevant and here to make people rage. Stop engaging in his content and or sharing it with others. Let him scream into the void.
Unfortunately he’s not irrelevant, there’s motherfuckers out there who hang on his every word and then spread it like wildfire through social media. “Normies” who only have passing knowledge of the situation eat that shit up and dumbass Ben suddenly has huge power to control the narrative.
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Common Hasan W. Just don’t ask him about China/Taiwan or socialism vs. capitalism. Ask instead what he’s wearing and driving. I jest, but Hasan is proof that being correct on leftist issues can pay well, and that’s a good sign.
No, he is not supporting war crimes. I disagree with many of his opinions, but I am on his side now.
It makes me feel gross to agree with Ben Shapiro.
He’s right, but he’s not describing Israel.
Exactly, we all can tell the difference. But Israel’s soldiers are not known for avoiding civilian casualties.
No, but Israeli soldiers are known for mostly being deployed against civilians when someone thinks massacres are somehow okay.
I’m not on Israel’s side on this one, but fuck the Hamas too.
That’s exactly where any sensible person would be. But torturing all of Palestine is not the solution to Hamas. If anything the occupation has only strengthened Hamas by bolstering recruitment.
Cutting off water, power, and food is just going to turn more Palestinians to Hamas.
That’s definitely half my point, yes. You can’t just shut off water to children like that’s somehow okay, I’m pissed at Israel too. The kids in Palestine didn’t kill the kids in that village, this is why even though I’m a very vengeful person, spite and “collateral damage” is not acceptable from anyone, myself included.
Oh so it’s a war crime when Israel sends rockets, but like he said the very obvious murders of entire civilian families and beheading the women is totally on the same level morally and principally.
Terrorist sympathizer.
The difference is the last time Gaza got to vote was 17 years ago…
The vast majority of the residents of Gaza have never had the opportunity to vote, so blaming them for Hamas makes zero fucking sense.
They are both war crimes that result in dead babies.
I can agree with that. To a certain extent there are always civilian casualties during wartime. Not condoning it, but it is a fact of war even in the “smart” age.
A ground invasion seems to be the only fairly retaliatory measure.
No retaliatory measure is fair, because it’s focusing on retribution instead of reconciliation. The attack on the dance party was retaliatory, too.
Retaliation only leads to escalation, and lots of death.
Tell me you don’t understand a thousand year war without telling me.
It’s quite the leap to equate condemning the terrorist actions of Israel to condoning the terrorist actions of Hamas.
No, didn’t you get the talking points? If you sympathize with Palestinians at all then you obviously FULLY SUPPORT Hamas! There’s no room for humanity here.
Sure fucking had me fooled you retards.
It’s a war crime when Hamas kills civilians, but it’s also a war crime when Israel cuts off food, water, and electricity (and also bombs!) civilians.
Not sure what the fuck is hard to understand about that, unless your only thought is “Hurr me no like communist commentator”
No, it’s not.
The tone has been set already with this thread, Israel = bad. Doesn’t matter how many families these Hamas cunts kidnap and behead apparently
It can be both. Hamas can be awful at the same time Israel is awful.
Nobody is justifying the atrocities committed by one side when pointing out the atrocities committed by the other.
The bloodshed needs to end either way.
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