It’s like the Paradox of Intolerance. In order to remain free and democratic, we need to disqualify candidates who would take away that freedom and would void our democracy. Not even counting all the myriad of crimes he’s been guilty of, just based on his words and his platform, he should be disqualified. We have to be intolerant of intolerance.
Philosopher Rainer Forst resolves the contradiction in philosophical terms by outlining tolerance as a social norm and distinguishing between two notions of “intolerance”: the denial of tolerance as a social norm, and the rejection of this denial.
I think viewing tolerance as a social contract perfectly sums up this situation. We allowed Trump to run for president when he had said some crazy shit, but hadn’t yet tried to overthrow the government. As soon as that happened, the social contract was off. No do overs.
It’s literally following the law.
If it lets an insurrectionist like Trump on the ballot, the supreme court will be putting out a welcome mat to autocracy
And they will be among the first up against the wall if that day comes, you can bet on it. I wonder if they have the slightest shred of self-preservation. If they are more afraid of maga now and not what maga will become, then their self-preservation instinct is badly flawed. We’ll see.
I think the right-leaning justices know pretty well that their positions are safe. They’re already benefiting immensely from corruption. When democracy dies and they have no obligation to the law, they’ll do whatever it takes to enrich themselves further.
After all, someone has to rubber stamp the actions of the autocrat.
Well, when democracy dies they’re not needed at all. Not being necessary is a dangerous position to be in. People who aren’t necessary are easily eliminated. And of course, there’s no incentive to pay off people who aren’t necessary.
I say if they have an ounce of self-reflection, they would know this is true and it would make them nervous. But you’re right, they probably don’t.
Roberts doesn’t. His response to the American people who were angry about the Dobbs abortion decision was that they should shut up and listen to the court’s authority.
It’s in the constitution! That sacred document that was divinely inspired. Granted it’s an amendment so it wasn’t part of Jefferson’s initial creation, but it’s been in there for 150 years.
How dare you suggest the Constitution was written by a person! It was written by God himself!
Yeah but the vibe of it all.
That’s a terrible argument against it.
If there’s a bad vibe to eliminating a candidate for following laws that were explicitly written down 150 years ago to stop such a candidate, then what kind of vibe does it give off if we flat out ignore that same law?
If we allow ourselves to be swayed by the idea that taking away a very specific privilege from a person gives off a bad vibe, then we’d be undermining our entire justice system and the very concept of law itself.
The law is unambiguous, and we must follow it. If we don’t, then the rule of law truly has no meaning.
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This is my thing. I feel like barring anyone shouldn’t be necessary. I would imagine if a giant, annoying sack of shit runs for office, they just wouldn’t even come close to winning. They should be able to run given virtually any circumstance and if they’re a terrible person or a criminal, the voters (ideally) would just not vote for that person. The situation we’re currently in is just wild.
No, they shouldn’t. It’s a privilege to run for president, not a right. If you engage in trying to overthrow the government, you lose all privileges to run for ANY office. If regular jobs can bar you for being a criminal, then the highest office in the country should even be more rigorous. You apologists will be the end of us.
lmao who in the holy hell am i apologizing for? I’m just saying you would think the american voters would never in a million years vote for someone like trump. You would think that it wouldn’t matter if he was on the ballot because he is so far from adequately filling the station of president that the american voters wouldn’t even give that candidate a second thought on account of… well pretty much everything but let’s go with criminality. the fact that he needs to be barred otherwise he would win the election or come very close is absolutely bonkers. Also, the fact that you not only disagree with the fact that the crux of the problem is the american voter simply cannot be trusted while also calling that apologizing for trump is so crazy
What is this hypothetical eutopia you’re conflating with the US? Anyone paying attention over the last decade knows how troubled this country really is. There’s a seriously fucked up portion that fluctuates between 20-33% of the country. There’s also roughly 10-15% in addition to that that are so ignorant they’ll let just about anything happen.
I’m not sure what you mean by “the American voter can’t be trusted”… We voted Trump out in 2020. The problem is conservative voters can’t be trusted not to burn the country down in the face of losing power. I’m not even a Democrat, that’s how clear this has become.
i feel like we are in complete agreement here but for some reason you don’t think so. I agree the country is troubled. I agree there is a big portion of the voter base that will vote for someone unfit for presidency. I agree there’s also a decent portion that are ignorant or don’t really care what happens. I agree conservative voters can’t be trusted and may cause issues if they lose power… which means they can’t be trusted… unless you’re saying conservatives aren’t American voters somehow?
your feelings don’t matter… electing a criminal to office is criminal…
Law has to be universally applied to all candidates.
Otherwise dems risk being kept from office.
everyone who voted for Trump is a piece of shit traitor forever
Are you legitimately saying it’s illegal to vote for a candidate on the ballot if they are a convicted criminal? This is factual incorrect. A candidate must be at least 35 years old, born in the US and have lived there for at least 14 years. I think some states don’t allow felons to run for state and local positions but there aren’t any limitations based on your character or criminal record to run for federal office. Hell you can run from president WHILE in prison if you want. Tiger King did it last election and i believe is planning to run again this year haha. so not only can you run, obviously just voting for and electing them is not illegal…
I would imagine if a giant, annoying sack of shit runs for office, they just wouldn’t even come close to winning.
2016: giant annoying sack of shit is elected
haha yup. now it’s like a shitty sequel where everything is worse but it still gets made somehow and somehow people pay to see it.
What happened to his hand and why has no one mentioned this? Are those burns or what?
Actually someone else in this thread mentions how it looks like secondary syphilis.
Grabbed one too many pussies eh?
Trump acts like a mob boss, and Al Capone died in his Florida mansion of complications from syphilis.
Wouldn’t it be great if history repeated itself?
Definitely seems like he hurt himself gripping something. Caught a falling knife would make sense if he ate anything that required cutting. Maybe held a frozen railing and lost skin?
It’s from digging his nails in with a clenched fist.
Looks like he had to reposition a few times, given the numerous ruts.
It’s the same group of dopes who have latched onto the ignorant “we’re not a democracy, were a constitutional republic!” who are now arguing that disqualify candidates that the cotus disqualifies is denying them their right to vote for whom they want.
Always tell those people that we are a federal presidential constitutional republic or fpcr for short. Then tell them that is a form of democracy.
I’ve debated it plenty, it appears they either cannot grasp the difference between a direct democracy and a representative democracy. I’ve even had plenty try to argue that directly electing the president (effectively a representative for the whole US on the world stage) would make us a democracy and no longer a representative democracy. lol
If we literally follow the Constitution, Trump is already barred from office & needs Congress to vote to remove that disability.
I love Steven Greenhouse. ‘Beaten down worked up’ set the groundwork for many discussions I had with my coworkers on worker rights. Also, he warns us against Niki Haley and her high heels.
With that being said I think she is a larger threat to labor rights than any other candidate for the GOP. Trump being the largest threat to democracy.
Unfortunately, I think Project 2025 is the equalizer when it comes to who is worst and why. As long as the Republicans are dead set on forming a christofascist dictatorship it may not matter which Republican dictator we hypothetically get for domestic issues. And I’m not confident that any of them would be better on international issues either.
Agreed, if only Republicans could be grifted into progressive politics.
If you’re not worried about the 2025 stuff, look at the Supreme Court, how little it took to quickly and fundamentally shift that to a broken body with absolutely zero integrity - now times that dangerous transition with every single aspect of government.
Your relatives who vote for trump are literally voting for the end of American democracy. They’ve had there’s, they are going to die sometime soon, and they are tossing a match over their shoulders into the gasoline soaked mass they created behind them.
Imagine leaving the White House like Trump did, and to live in a place where this orange guy is a serious contender to occupy the presidency once again after four years.
Maybe this democracy is not worthy of protection. With all due respect, American democracy may need way more than stopping Trump’s second term.
That’s not much of a solution, either. Don’t like what American democracy is doing now? Just wait until it doesn’t care about having pretenses to invade other countries, or even use nuclear weapons.
Sure as hell I will not try to fix the thing. It’s sad, but maybe Americans will have to do it to truly learn something this time. It’s not like the rest of the world feels safe with America’s attitudes towards war anyway.
Preach.
The title of this post is dumb. How about…get more voters. I don’t want to hear the bitching when the other side tries it.
I’m getting to a point with liberals.
Its literally anti-democratic. I dunno what definitions of democracy anyone here is using, but its a system by which people decide via votes.
It’s not anti-democratic to force candidates to abide by existing law.
For example: AOC couldn’t run in 2020 because the Constitution states you have to be 35 to be President and she would not have been old enough.
That’s not anti-democratic, that’s the “you must be this tall to ride this ride” rule.
For the same reason, removing an insurrectionist from the ballot is not anti-democratic. They’ve proven they can’t be trusted and so aren’t qualified for office, and the 14th Amendment disqualifies them.
You vote for representatives that make laws on your behalf. Everyone has to follow those laws. If you are a president and also a traitor, you will run afoul of those laws. If the law says you may not run for president if you break it, then that is what it is. Democracies can have laws and still be democracies.
So far he hasnt been convicted of any treason, or any other crime. Right now its entirely one party subjectively deciding to deny candidacy to the opposition party, as Russia and North Korea both do.
We ALL saw that traitor incite an insurrection in an attempt to overthrow the United States, and good thing the 14th amendment does NOT require a conviction to keep a traitor off the ballot.
Spare me the Russia North Korea bullshit, the anti-americans are the ones trying to destroy democracy and anoint their rapist god as king of America. Just like Russia and North Korea.
Fuck right off.
So does the 14th amendment just require accusations to deny candidacy?
Accusations? I’m sorry, were you deaf, dumb, and fucking blind on Jan 6th?
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You’re literally just ignoring the people who tell you he’s been charged with a crime. You posted a similar message in another thread yesterday, and just like this one you’re just posting and leaving.
We all saw everything that happened. The man tried to steal an election he lost and incited an insurrection. If you don’t believe that you’re captured by propaganda.
the man hasn’t been charged with a crime
He has literally been charged with dozens of crimes. Have you been living under a rock? Do you just make shit up when you need to defend your orange garbage bag person?
the man hasn’t been charged with a crime.
He’s been charged with 91 felonies and been found guilty of Insurrection in two courts in Colorado. He is not an innocent little snowflake.
https://www.npr.org/2023/12/20/1220583273/trump-colorado-supreme-court-ruling
Pretending he has not been charged is misinformation, and I’m removing this comment based on that.
Cry some more. The constitution was used to remove him. If you have problems with that, then take it up with the founding fathers. Per the 14th amendment, NO CONVICTION is required. Removing a proven insurrectionist from the ballot is DEMOCRACY.
Removing a proven insurrectionist from the ballot is
DEMOCRACYfollowing the rule of law in the United States. Exempting individuals from the rule of law is anti-democratic.All people having representation and subject to the rule of law are fundamental principles of democracy.
Removing a proven insurrectionist from the ballot is
DEMOCRACYfollowing the rule of law in the United States. Exempting individuals from the rule of law is anti-democratic. All people having representation and subject to the rule of law are fundamental principles of democracy.So, per your own logic, the fundamental principles of Democracy require people to have representation and are subjected to the rule of law. So, with Trump being removed from the ballot using the 14th amendment, which, in your own words he is being subjected to the rule law. Which makes his removal Democratic? No?
Yes, I’m being nit-picky. All I was trying to say was the original phrasing was “democracy at large says an insurrectionist cannot run for office” which is untrue. It is a US implementation of democracy specific case.
Another country could have no restrictions on candidates and it would be completely democratic for an insurrectionist to run for office.
