cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ca/post/20749204
Another positive step in the right direction for an organization rife with brokenness. There’s a lot I don’t like about the organization, but this is something a love–a scouting organization open to young women and the lgbtq community. The next step is being inclusive of nonreligious agnostic and atheist youth and leaders. As well as ending the cultural appropriation of Native American peoples.
May this organization continue to build up youth, never allow further violence against youth, and make amends for all the wrongs. There’s a lot of good that comes out of organizations like this and I won’t discount it even though it’s riddled with a dark history.
Please do atheism and agnostics next. I finished all the way up to doing my eagle project, all I had left was to finish some paper work and I would have gotten my eagle. I quit right about then, because what was the point? They were just going to take it away from me later for not believing in some magic book, I wouldn’t be the first they did it too. Absolutely ridiculous.
Edit: Any magic book** they don’t even discriminate against other religions is the part that drives me even crazier. You just NEED to believe in one.
What? As a complete outsider (I’m from Sweden,
scouts isn’t a thing here) what does scouting have to do with religion? Why would they discriminate against atheists?I thought scouting was about natural sciences, and helping out in the local community? Which to me sounds pretty nice!
Edit: Scouts are a thing here in Sweden. Thank you for the corrections, I’m quite baffled I’ve managed to miss that.
TLDR: Scouts are about nature AND religion. Not just nature. There are many organisations that are just about nature. Feel free to join them.
Why should they not discriminate against atheists?
For real. Just because you believe it is about nature? Scout organizations are clearly about nature AND religion.
Join an organization that is just about nature.
In my country we have two strong scout organisations. One religious and one not. Religious one focused more on a personal growth and the other one more on nature skills. (Well some of my friends in religious one were atheists they just had to practice the same activities)
Churches do not accept atheists. Chess clubs discriminate against non chess players.
But if they would include non chess players, chess clubs would have no meaning.
One can see you do not hold religions in high regard, but please allow people with the same interests and believes to meet and express themselves together in a peaceful manner.
That might work in your country, but there isn’t some non-religious version here that’s popular. They also don’t advertise as religious at all, just the nature aspects. Religion wasn’t mentioned in the organization a single time until I was already in for… 6 or 7 years maybe?
What? Weird! This is against what this organization is supposed to represent. Sad.
Would they have accepted The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
Would they have accepted The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
Probably. Scouting America has been openly Deist for a long time and there is an official “Event” for Christians, Muslims, and Jews. So at least at the national level they don’t seem to care what Deity you jam too as long as you have one.
This post is a cesspool of hateful comments from anti-establishment people with zero actual experience with scouting. Scouts is a wonderful organization, full of volunteers who give children - especially disadvantaged children - knowledge, life experience, and a general sense of accomplishment and competence. My involvement with scouting was the best thing about my entire childhood.
There is a lot great about this article, but it’s hard to keep completely positive in light of the many horrific abuses that have taken place within the Scouts. Youth organizations and religious organizations are highly susceptible to this. Scouting America has gone to great lengths to reform and protect youth today, but the stain will be there for a long time especially since abuse still happens (this just reported on days ago).
To be frank, it’s a tense thing for me. Scouts was great for me in my youth and today as I’m involved with my children. However, I’m always on guard and paying attention. Whether it’s scouts or some other youth organization, they are vulnerable. I teach my kids to pay attention and remain ever vigilant. As great as such organisations can be, they are very very susceptible to predators.
There is a risk of abuse in life. Most children are abused by family or family friends. Unfortunately we can’t stop all of the monsters, but at least Scouts tries, and has some of the most proactive child protection policies in the country. I had abusive teachers when I was a kid that physically assaulted me, that doesn’t mean we condemn all elementary schools. School was still a vibrant part of my childhood. I’m not trying to diminish the suffering of children who suffered abuse in a place that was supposed to provide them safety, but we don’t need to bring it up literally every single time scouting is mentioned. Most of the people on this comment chain are doing it because they get some sort of sadistic pleasure from diminishing the merits of helpful institutions like this, not because they have any sort of real concern for the children.
Just to be clear, the Boy Scouts actively protected abusers to protect their reputation, and went out of their way to NOT PREVENT ABUSERS FROM JUST BECOMING SCOUT MASTERS AGAIN SOMEWHERE ELSE.
This wasn’t just a ‘bad luck’ sort of thing, the Boy Scouts were actively HELPING abusers because they didn’t want the bad publicity.
It’s a pity that I’m still ineligible to work with the Scouts. I have a lot of happy memories from my decade in Scouting, and still have a significant interest in many of the things that I did while I was in the organization. Unfortunately, my religion is, shall we say, disfavored within Scouting, and is not permitted for either youth or leaders.
Religion, while required, plays a very minor role practically speaking. Even your “disfavored” beliefs should be permitted.
My “belief” in my own imaginary mythos is enough to satiate the non-sectarian requirements thus far. I simply don’t speak about it any detail.
This thread has reminded me that talking to my kids about this is important because my eldest, practically speaking, is agnostic. I don’t want them to feel uncomfortable lying for Eagle, so I want to share some options. There’s a lot of ways for a scout to be reverent without actually believing in a deity.
Here’s a little more on the requirement: https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2014/10/03/belief-in-god-scouting/
I can’t wait until this “integral” part of the program is made a thing of the past.
I am a Satanist; although it’s religious, it’s also explicitly atheistic. Per your blog, “By signing the membership application, each leader has already acknowledged the Declaration of Religious Principle which affirms a belief in God […]”. While I could quite truthfully say that I acknowledge myself as my own god, I do not believe in God, and I can not honestly affirm that I believe a belief in any external god to be necessary in order to be a good person and citizen.
“A scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent”; I can’t be trustworthy without also being wholly honest, including that I don’t believe in an external god. “On my honor, I will do my best, to god and my country, to uphold the Scout law, and to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight”; how could I say this without being deceptive? I know that the ‘god’ they’re referring to is a deity outside of myself, and it wouldn’t be moral for me to swear to this without also believing in some form of external deity.
When your religion is defined by denial and opposition to all other religions, then it probably isn’t welcome where religious tolerance is a requirement.
Sorry, are you talking about Christianity?
Or were you talking about Islam?
Oh, wait, no, probably Hinduism.
Nah, surely Mormonism.
No I mean the literal purpose of Satanism is to oppose religion and particularly Christianity. That’s why it’s named after the embodiment of evil according to Christianity. It’s deliberately antagonistic. That’s not at all the same as believing that yours is the only true religion.
Goodness. You don’t really know a lot about Satanism, do you?
I don’t oppose religion, as long as religion stays in it’s own lane. As long as religion is personal, and not forced on other people, I simply don’t care; it’s literally not my problem, nor is it my job to ‘convert’ other people. If you’re happy being e.g. Catholic, that’s fine.
…Until you try to force me to obey the dictates of your religion because you can’t tell the difference between civil society and your religion.
Look, it doesn’t matter what you claim to be about if the name you choose is screaming something different. It’s like if you opened a restaurant called Hitler was right, and then acted surprised when people called you a Nazi. You can tell everyone that Jews are welcome, but nobody will believe you.
I have the Scouts to thank for turning me into first an atheist, then through their example of militant protheism, I became a militant antitheist and a secular prohumanist.
I didn’t find my spirituality because of them, I found it in spite of them.
As a former boy scout, hell yeah.
“More Inclusive Scouting America” is a bit wordy but I guess has a nice ring to it.
“M’ISA like it.” - Jar-Jar
Can’t wait for the “the scouts are failing due to being woke” crowd instead of the real reason, all the sexual abuse cases.
I mean I had, and have met plenty of others who also had, the opposite experience.
I say this as a pretty vanilla person, not gay, not trans… not even vegetarian.
The Boy Scouts absolutely failed me as child interested in the outdoors because the troop was led by a bunch of adult men pretending their goal was to train a small military unit out of a Lutheran church on Thursdays.
I have met so many Eagle Scouts who were encouraged and taught outdoor skills… actually taught survival skills! Not verbally threatened by some 55 year old polish dude suffering narcissistic injuries…
not gay, not trans… not even vegetarian.
how unfortunate
Ha right? Call me boring… but that was not the scoutmaster’s problem.
This is good. Scouting (in developed countries) in Europe is one and same for boys, nonbinaries and girls, mainly non-theistic (apart from the obvious theistic groups) and focused on making sure health, hygiene, happiness and life skills are taught and practiced. Girls, nonbinaries and boys coexist, do the same tasks, chores and sleep in the same tents.
So does the girl scouts have to accept boys now? Is there gonna be a merger? When they go camping, do they separate the girls and boys? Also why? This is probably good for parents who have multiple kids so they can bring them all to the same place.
Oh, also, the Boy Scouts have been letting in girls for a while now. I would assume they get separate tents but I don’t actually know because I’m not actually involved with the organization. But, girl members have been fairly common and this is really just a name change.
Not only separate tents, but the boys’ tents are grouped together and girl tents are grouped together with the adult tents in between those two groups. There also must be at least 1 adult of each sex.
Why do some people get so upset if women try to exclude men?
Ask yourself why some people get so upset if men try to exclude women. The answer is mostly the same.
Because men aren’t allowed to exclude women. Just wanna let you all know how that feels.
The Girl Scouts started accepting boys years beforethe boy scouts started accepting girls around106 years ago.They had boys and girls in different tents to prevent them from having sex. I’m not sure how they deal with lgbt scouts.
Edit: Boys Scouts first allowed girls into Venturing, a program for those 14-21st birthday. Girls were allowed into Boy Scout troops and in Cub Scouts in 2018.
Cis boys aren’t allowed in Girl Scouts.
In what universe are prepubescent children having sex?
Boy Scouts can join a troop at 10 and age out at 18. It’s not uncommon for high schoolers to begin experimenting sexually.
Further there’s also a branch of Boy Scouts called Venturing that is co-ed where participants age out at 21.
This is not uplifting. Boys benefit from single-sex spaces just like girls do.
Boys have tons and tons and tons of other male-only and male-dominated groups to choose from, they’ll live
I’ll bite - give me some examples of real-life male-only spaces that aren’t sports related.
Like what?
So they are opening the predator buffet to new items? The Scouts is now the Golden Corral of molestation.
the downvotes remind me of why the clergy is still held in high esteem even though they’ve literally diddled so many children that they’ve had to file bankruptcy in multiple countries to protect themselves from the staggering number of law suites coming from those abused children who have grown into damaged adults.
While we’re throwing out scouting and the clergy because they have had abusers within their ranks, let us also throw out baseball, soccer, football, wrestling, theater, choir, band, cheerleading, chess club… Hell, you’re going to have to cancel school in general, what with all the teachers raping their students.
Equal opportunity for molestation…
