Jerkface (any/all)

pithy! zounds, you have bested me in sport. but any rhetorical victories don’t make rape and murder okay. consider not being needlessly cruel and violent. the experiences of animals are real and matter. their suffering is identical in nature to your own. the animals we create are morally equivalent to our own children and are entitled to the exact same unconditional love and protection.

Classic thought-terminating cliche

It’s funny how every non-vegan knows exactly how to convert people; better, in fact, than every single person who has experienced conversion. Hilarious, in fact.

I mean, a vegetarian would say that while patting themselves on the back

The earth could not support our current meat consumption through hunting. We would have hunted every last creature decades ago. The consumption that you want to continue to participate in is necessarily predicated on factory farming if everyone else does the same as you. That’s just the mathematical reality of the situation. You cannot have it both ways, you are living in a state of denial.

Not only that, but carnism and malignant capitalism are deeply intertwined.

Apply this logic to human slaves producing transplant organs. If we didn’t create them, then they’d never exist; so we are actually doing them a favour by creating them and forcing them to serve us.

It’s just cope after cope after cope. I’ve been there. They are all trying to lead you away from the same place, but that’s the place you have to go if you want to be a person who does not commit cruelty and violence against vulnerable individuals.

It is a fallacy to say there are alternatives that ensure the animals are happy and taken care of. That is simply not true from an ethical point of view, which isn’t really concerned with your subjective measure of another individual’s “happiness.”

There is no ethical way to create an individual with the preformed intention of forcing that individual into a state of life-long dependence, where you are its only means of survival. That on its face is already profoundly unethical, it’s a truly monstrous and selfish thing to do to another individual.

The animals we create are morally equivalent to our own children. They are entitled to the exact same unconditional love and protection.

what in your mind makes it ethical to do the things to a chicken that would not be ethical to do to a human? you can’t just say “it’s ethical;” that is the entire debate.

You are ignorant of the realities of “free range” ranching, but that is not really relevant yet so we’ll ignore it.

The source of all protein in your food web is plants. The source of all calcium is the Earth itself, mainly as harvested by plants. Animals only add inefficiency; they are not what enable “human athleticism”, they only make it more expensive and harmful.

Neither of those points address the ethics or politics of harvesting vulnerable individuals for flesh and secretions. Doing so clearly requires stepping outside of values like compassion and fairness, and so requires stepping outside the leftist political sphere. Consuming animals is an exception to leftist politics, not some kind of special case.

OP addresses it by simply saying it’s not exploitation and the animals are not harmed. Both things are false. OP has nothing further to say to sustain that view. So what the fuck more are we supposed to have read?

How do you eat the body of someone who doesn’t want to be eaten and think it isn’t exploitation. Do YOU even listen to the words you are saying, or are you just distracting yourself from rational thought until the bad feelings go away?

We can tell you’ve never thought seriously about the subject in your entire life because you make claims like eggs and dairy don’t harm the animals producing them. That’s so ignorant, you have to be going out of your way to avoid learning about where your food comes from. But you have paragraphs of arrogant shit to shovel down our throats. Read a fucking book, okay?

That will be ignored because it doesn’t help rationalize cruelty and needless violence.

Not here on Earth, space boy.

Dairy absolutely does kill the animal, they just get raped several times first and have to live with their children (whom they are emotionally bonded to) being torn away from them each time.

The oldest cow we know about lived to 48 years. Dairy cows are slaughtered for meat at SIX YEARS OLD. The children are also slaughtered, except for a few who are kept to be milked and then slaughtered like her mother was.

No, they’re trying to make you tell us what the moral difference is between humans and animals. YOU’RE the one saying they are not the same. We are asking, why? “Because I’m smart” is not an answer. If you can convince yourself that an individual with obvious interests, desires, and emotions is not even in the same moral category as a human that you like, you can EASILY convince yourself that any human being with interests, desires and emotions is ALSO not in the same moral category. This isn’t a hypothetical, this is something people do every day. So we’ll accept that humans all have the same moral worth, but you still have to explain why animals have so little moral worth, that they way they taste is more important than their lives.

See also: humanist slave owners.

I wonder what leftist values you think you can express without empathy. Like, honestly, why do you even give a single fuck about this entire thread, you’re not in this picture at all.

In point of fact, the environmental impact of shipping plants hundreds of kms is an order of magnitude less than the impact of consuming local meat. But you don’t actually care about that, it’s sophistry.

So your entire philosophy that justifies needless violence, cruelty to a vulnerable individual, despoiling the environment, and exploiting people doing traumatic jobs because they would starve homeless otherwise, your ENTIRE argument can be expressed in one glib, garbled, arrogant sentence. Hey, if that’s all you got, then that’s all you got; that in itself is the answer. But if you’re trying to show how you can do these things and also embody leftist values, you’re failing, and no amount of bluster or irony can change that.