I encountered someone saying, “I have no problems with a person’s sexual orientation and choice, I have a problem with anyone being openly sexual or flaunting their sexuality in front of me regardless of their choice of orientation.”
I am a card carrying atheist. I was raised in one of the worst fundamental christian extremist groups and now live in near isolation from abandoning it nearly 10 years ago. All sexuality was bottled in my life and surroundings. This is still my comfort zone. A part of me wants to hold on to a similar ethos as the person I mentioned above, but I feel like I’m not very confident it is the right inner philosophical balance either.
I’m partially disabled now, so this is almost completely hypothetical. I am honestly looking to grow in my understanding of personal space and inner morality as it relates to others. Someone enlighten me please. Where does this go, what does it mean to you?
Well, the attitude of the person you encountered is problematic for a few reasons. The most common is that its almost never applied evenly due to the sexualization of queer bodies; two straight people holding hands or flirting or is fine, but a queer couple doing the same is “flaunting their sexuality”. To some, a trans woman just existing is “flaunting sexuality” due to how theyve been trained to think of and conceptualize trans women.
But assuming the person isnt a hypocrite, its still problematic, because what theyre talking about is a large range of behaviors, ranging from “no sex in public but kissing etc is ok” to shomer negiah to full segregation based on sex. Many (tho not all!) humans are sexual beings with sexual desires and motivations. To say that they cannot express that aspect of themselves in public at all is to prevent them from being their full selves in public. Thats not to say that people should be able to just have sex whereever they want, but that people should be able to express the feeling “i like and am attracted to you” in public (within the bounds of consenting adults, of course).
Thanks for the acknowledgment of asexual people like me 😊
Assuming people actually apply the attitude consistently instead of only to non-straight people, I’m not sure what to think, honestly. There are always going to be people who are made uncomfortable by PDA from any couple, including straight couples. Back when straight was default I knew people who would react unhappily to a straight couple making out and even basic kissing was really pushing it. It seems somehow callous to condemn these people if they apply this standard to everyone equally, it feels like saying “your discomfort is wrong, fix it and stop being so sensitive.” But I also understand that often, if something won’t make a majority of people uncomfortable and isn’t disrespectful/actively harmful it’s usually the responsibility of the uncomfortable person to remove themselves from the situation.
Social norms have conditioned me into not finding a couple groping each other in public a socially acceptable thing, even if I don’t feel any discomfort with it. The only taboo against displays of affection that I think lies in something other than making people feel uneasy is “no sex in public” because of all the fluids produced. If not cleaned up well and quickly, it sounds ripe for infecting people who unknowingly, say, sit on the same bench someone had sex on. Especially if they have a small cut on the back of their thigh, and it touches where the fluids were… Same logic as “use a toilet, don’t go in public.” No biohazards in public please.
I’m totally fine with any PDA that isn’t actual sex in public, and the sex reservation is only because of the concern I mentioned above for STDs. I’m making a lot of devil’s advocate arguments against my own perspective because I also want to respect others’ comfort levels and I’m not sure where exactly the line should be drawn.
I think one issue here is that discomfort is subjective. Discomfort is valid and an important way to gauge how we treat people. But its important to understand why someone is uncomfortable.
For example, if someone is uncomfortable with me talking super loud in a small room, then the solution would probably not be to change my tone of voice or the topic I’m talking about. Its the volume thats bringing them discomfort.
If someone is uncomfortable with others kissing in public, we might argue that its reasonable not to kiss in public for their comfort.
But what’s the real cause of discomfort with two men kissing? Is it the kissing or their very existence? If two people loving each other brings someone discomfort because this person just doesn’t aprove of their lifestyle, what’s the solution, then?
The comfort they are likely seeking is to never have to acknowledge that others are different from them. And they can only get that by limiting the freedom of those “others”.
I should probably clarify that I’m thinking of people who are uncomfortable with PDA from any couple, people who would be equally unhappy with a man and a woman kissing as a man and a man. Not people who are okay with PDA from straight couples but not from gay people.
Yeah, I’m sorry if I explained it poorly. I tend to ramble.
If you are uncomfortable with all forms of PDA, thats valid. The source of your discomfort is the act. Not who’s doing it. And it would be a reasonable discomfort to accomadate.
If your discomfort was because of who is doing the act, then thats just prejudice. If the only accommodation that would work to comfort someone is harmful to others, then they need to look inward for a solution.
The point I kind of forgot I was making halfway through is that, while discomfort is valid and should be accommodated in society, discomfort is very subjective. Not everyone can explain their own discomfort accurately, and those that can might lie about it instead. So we have to be careful and try to recognize the difference between, “Your behavior makes me uncomfortable,” and , “Your existence makes me uncomfortable.”
I appreciate your point aboutcondemning peoples discomfort, its definitely a sensitive area that needs care. To be clear, everyones discomfort is valid, but its how we react to that discomfort that I would take issue with. Restricting other peoples expression of love because of my own discomfort seems wrong (with exception of fluids/infection risks/etc, as you named).
I suppose to me it depends on the intention of the space; if the intention of a space is specific and pda is interfering with that intention, thats an issue. Especially when its a mandatory shared space like work, where you have to show up and cant avoid things.
I’m actually not sure how PDA interferes with the intention of work. Hypothetically, I could sit in someone’s lap and I could be doing my work, and they theirs (at least, if we both use laptops). I definitely see the point about the mandatory shared space, though.