Clarification: Just making fun of people(including myself) who watch shitty videos instead of official documentation.
I really like the man pages, but they’re an encyclopedia, not a tutorial. Great for looking up specifics when you already have a foundation. Not so great when starting out
When I was first learning programming I had a teacher who insisted that the only resource we could was the Java docs.
When you want to know what parameters you need to pass or what certain flags do, it’s a great resource. When you don’t even know how to iterate through an array, it’s not the first place to look.
My dryer broke the other day, which turned out to be the heating element. I watched a bunch of videos to try and figure out how to troubleshoot the problem and hopefully address it.
One of the videos, after an intro, claimed to have the solution. Then they proceeded to talk about the temperature control features of the machine and how I should make sure the heat is turned on.
That is the level many of the unix / software development videos out there. Just literally some AI slop or silly person who doesn’t know what they are talking about uploading a quick clip to grow their channel.
Honestly I kinda like man pages. It is a pain but it is the least painful. And compared to e.g. the PowerShell docs, I love the man pages.
Man pages fucking suck, and I say that having been working with linux full time professionally for 11 years.
The best ones have plenty of examples.
How about using tealdeer?
Is there any reason to use tealdeer over just tldr aside from speed?
I don’t know tbh. I used both and tldr was really slow when compared to man or even just DDGing, tealdeer is real fast
Man pages are for reference, not learning.
I mostly use Tealdear but
--helpworks well when Tealdear gets too simplified.Man pages are useful references but go ahead and learn how to use sed or awk from their man pages.
Yep.
That’s what the RTFM folks don’t seem to understand: if you didn’t even know, what you’re looking for, you can’t look it up.
This in general is the main reason for the ai surge. Just dump the 2 sentence explanation into a prompt and hope something sensible comes from it rather than googling for half an hour.
No, make it like this:
I have a problem with program x. Please tell me how i do y if I want z. Use this man page for reference:
[insert man page into promt py copy paste]
This gives way better results.
Most of the time you don’t have to insert the man page, it’s already baked into the neural network model and filling the context window sometimes gives worse results.
I noticed that mentioning commands you want gives good results e.g.:
Hi,
I want to replace line with HOSTTOOLS += " svn"
in all layer.conf files under current directory
by usingfindandsedcommands.If it’s more complicated, pasting parial scrript for LLM to finish gave better results (4 me),
than pure prompt text.
At least for programming/Linux stuff, it often enough actually does deliver keywords, that you can use as jumping off points. The proposed solutions however…
Or make
(gnu) make at least used to have pretty good
infopages
Having a good
--helpcommand does wonders.There are man pages which do avoid me opening a web browser, the
systemdones are pretty good for example.I just installed
tldrto test it out tho.Man pages suck ass. But not as much as fucking YouTube tutorials.
Can someone just write a nice plain English instruction page?
You ask someone for instructions
They send you some bullshit 10 minutes long video
Now instead of ctrl+f or skimming the article and jumping where you want to go you need to jump around in a video
REEEE
I have a theory a lot of people are functionally illiterate and thus prefer videos as they can’t skim well
Or maybe they just grok things more effectively via verbal instruction and visual aids?
Isn’t that the same thing?
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To be fair we do the same with windows.
Man pages are for people who already know a lot about Linux and understand all the nuances and understanding of Linux
Even after using Linux for many many years I still don’t understand wtf nearly all man pages mean. It’s like a fucking codex. It needs to be simplified but not to the extreme where it doesn’t give you information you need to understand it.
Tbh that’s most of Linux, not designed for average people, designed by Linux users who think that all others should know everything about Linux.
Enter tldr and navi
I’d like to add
aproposto this as well.my favorite is tealdeer!
Tbh a lot of man pages don’t even give you enough usage information to make full use of a package. I’m thinking of the ones which are like an extended
--helpblockThey also usually assume a lot about the users’ knowledge of the domain of the program itself.
In my experience, many programs’ man/help is very brief, often a sentence or less per command/flag, with 2 or more terms that don’t mean anything to the uninitiated. Also, even when I think I know all the words, the descriptions are not nearly precise enough to confidently infer what exactly the program is going to do.
Disclaimers for potentially dangerous/irreversible actions are also often lacking.Which is why I almost always look for an article that explains a command using examples, instead of trying to divine what the manual authors had in mind.
l must be using man pages very differently from you. To me they are mostly the easy reference to check the available flags for a command, and sometimes the reference on available config file entries, e.g. ssh_config(5)
For those things I was using them quite soon when I started using Linux, because it’s quicker than googleing every time if you just need one flag or one option name. For more complex things, like tar-and-gzip in one which needs like four, I still google though.
Probably there are very complicated ones too, the ones explaining subsystems or APIs of the kernel, but those I don’t need as a user.
I don’t get it either. I can see how you’re getting confused if you end up in section 2 or 3 of the manpages or with the kernel calls. But that’s not what a beginner is looking for. The manpages for the user commands are pretty alright. Sometimes even excellent.
It depends on who writes them, I guess. More “modern” software come with pretty good and concise manpages, meanwhile stuff like the coreutils still have manpages that feel like an incomprehensible mess.
I’m in this image and I don’t like it.
You’re not a real linux user unless you’ve read the source because the documentation was inadequate.
This is nixos.
For those that didn’t pick it up, this is sarcasm
I’d say that only those who manage to write a kernel code that doesn’t upset Linus Torvald are true linux users.
Even Linus Trovald writes kernel code that Linus Trovald doesn’t like.
Some mans are unreadable. I’ve been curling cheat.sh/[command] and its been great for example commands. Highly recommend.
I also like tldr for new commands. Sometimes I discover new ways by using it on the commands I know…
