Only 17% of Arab American voters say they will vote for Biden in 2024, according to a new poll.
Didn’t Trump literally already say he was bringing back the Muslim ban and making it worse? But ok, I guess vote for him anyway. Most republican voters vote against their own interests all the time so they’ll fit right in until they’re deported.
They’ll probably just not bother voting for either. Why waste time doing so if you’ll get screwed regardless?
Because they’ll be screwed much, much harder with Trump.
Why waste time doing so if you’ll get screwed regardless?
So the solution to this is to sit home knowing full well that benefits the man who is literally campaigning on the promise to screw you harder?
You argue that because you see a difference between them, but for marginalized peoples they are the same.
It’s sad you can’t see how false that is because of how recent events have unfolded. It’s like you’ve just now looked at politics for the first time. You’re so concerned with the marginalized people on the other side of the world you’d let it happen here out of short-sighted spite.
RIGHT NOW, a strict Christian fundamentalist was elected speaker by the GOP. Given further empowerment, he would cause more harm to marginalized people and much of the populace. He has declared his intentions. This will not help the people of Gaza if that’s really your only concern.
To not get screwed?
If Arabs don’t vote for Joe or stay home pouting on the couch on election day, the only thing they’ll accomplish is to enable the tragic national nightmare of a second trump misadministration and a whole new tsunami of violent, stochastic terrorism-driven Islamophobia that has already cost innocent Muslim Americans their lives
They’ve been put in a seriously shitty and unwinnable situation. Either way, Arab Americans lose and that’s fucked up.
The system is broken. How bad would Biden have to be to make it not worth voting for him? What could he get away with in this context? When your alternative is Trump the bar is so incredibly low.
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fuck this. This is literally what people said during Trump’s first election. Guess what? Making things worse doesn’t magically make things better.
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Man, check revolutions throughout history. They don’t happen because authoritarian governments get too authoritarian. They happen when authoritarian governments let up the pressure during times of tension.
Authoritarian governments that collapse due to over-authoritarianism typically fall to coups, not revolutions.
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The real answer is to vote local, get involved, if there are no good options run or find a decent person who is capable of running. Either way, support the campaigns of those decent options, do a little volunteering. Change happens from the ground up. Changing the whole system at once is impossible, slowly spreading change from the local level shows other disenfranchised voters there is a chance, and it picks up momentum from there.
Throwing away your vote is a sure fire way to make things worse. Vote for the candidate that has the highest odds of winning who will make things better, or at least not worse. Just because you don’t like the candidate on the “left” doesn’t mean they’re not the one that will objectively do the least harm in office. Letting Trump or anyone else on the right in office is objectively bad on so many measures.
Voting third party is morally reprehensible. Even if it makes you feel better, it’s worst for all of us. Don’t be selfish.
The US isn’t even close to being bad enough for a revolution to happen.
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You probably want to read up on Social Fascists and why the concept you’re espousing is terrible.
History says enabling fascists doesn’t end up with a glorious revolution, but rather a bullet in the head of the left.
Until first past the post is done away with your 3rd candidate vote is an awful idea.
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Voting 3rd party only increases the chance that they’ll do it again
It’s too bad Americans can only choose between senile old people or criminals to be president
We’re choosing between Trump and Trump?
It’s too bad Americans can only choose between senile old people or senile old criminals to be president
FTFY
As long as they don’t vote in the primaries that will continue to be a problem.
Primaries are controlled by the parties. If they see a candidate they really don’t like *COUGH*Bernie*COUGH*Sanders*COUGH* then they’ll pull out all the stops to prevent that candidate from winning. People like to think Trump wasn’t wanted by the republican party, but his policies aligned 100% with theirs. Similarly, “hope and change” Obama was allowed to win because he was willing to play ball and went back on most or all of his promises immediately after getting elected.
Political parties also legally don’t even have to respect the results of those primaries since they are private organizations.
Good thing (for genocide Joe’s ego) the DNC is refusing to hold primaries at all then.
The solution to this is so simple - Biden gets out of the way for literally any other Dem to run and sweep the election. The entrenched power structure won’t have it though.
So, don’t blame Muslim Americans, progressives, or anyone else for Biden’s failure to lead. This is on him and the DNC who backs him.
That’s the reality of the two party system. They don’t matter, because what are they ultimately gonna do, vote for the other guy?
Or just not vote.
So few people vote that it doesnt even read as a protest anymore but “voter apathy” and one party benefits more from it.
I mean, at this point if they want to support fascist white supremacy, there’s not much I can do for them. That’s what not voting is.
Even if they do, the Palestinian diaspora has almost no presence in “swing states” in the US.
What are you talking about? Detroit has a ton of them and Michigan is a swing state.
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Man the amount of people in this thread that can’t understand that some people don’t want to vote for someone who is supporting a genocide of their own people. “But Trump is worse!” Well, yeah, but this is still pretty fucking bad, and were I American I’d hesitate to support it too. It’s not like most of these people will vote for Trump, they’ll just stay home or vote for a 3rd party.
Those comments make me so angry. There is a genocide being perpetrated on Arabs in Palestine, and Biden is actively defending it. It should be absolutely no surprise that Muslims and Arabs are not going to vote for a genocide denying turd actively trying to fund and arm the perpetrator.
For real, Democratic administrations can’t go and have whatever abhorrent policies, including actively supporting an ethnic cleansing, and turn around and go “the other guy is worse, actually. And if YOU don’t vote for us it’s YOUR fault if this country devolves into fascism”
That is not what a functioning democracy looks like.
It should be absolutely no surprise that Muslims and Arabs are not going to vote for a genocide denying turd actively trying to fund and arm the perpetrator.
I can’t see how voting for the guy who’s going to fund and arm the perpetrator anyway, while using racial slurs to describe you and get you kicked out of the country is any better.
voting for the guy who’s going to fund and arm the perpetrator anyway
There’s your reason right there, everything else literally doesn’t matter. Would you be surprised if a Jewish person didn’t vote for a Holocaust enabler, even if the alternative was someone else who was even more antisemitic?
I also don’t see where you’re getting Muslims are going to vote for trump from, they’re just going to stay home. This is what democrats are best at, blowing minority support because they lack a backbone. If Muslims will suffer either way, why should they even participate?
“Vote blue no matter who” is a moot point to many people, particularly minorities, who will continue to suffer either way. Biden is supporting the murder of Muslims, how could they stomach bubbling his dumbass zionist name on election day?
There’s your reason right there, everything else literally doesn’t matter. Would you be surprised if a Jewish person didn’t vote for a Holocaust enabler, even if the alternative was someone else who was even more antisemitic?
I’m not saying that they have good choices available. And again, I completely understand your point. But you continue to ignore the reality of the situation. In your example, it’s like asking the Jewish person to vote for a Holocaust enabler vs. a Holocaust enabler that actively wants to put them in the gas chambers. Neither one is a good choice by any stretch of the imagination, but even given two extremely bad choices, why choose the one that has a much higher chance of bringing the hate directly to your doorstep?
It’s the classic Sophie’s Choice. But in this case, rather than having to choose between one child or the other, you’re essentially advocating for an alternative where they both die.
I also don’t see where you’re getting Muslims are going to vote for trump from, they’re just going to stay home. This is what democrats are best at, blowing minority support because they lack a backbone. If Muslims will suffer either way, why should they even participate?
Staying home is a de-facto vote for Trump. Especially in a swing state like Michigan. And if Biden were to take the side of the Palestinians, he’d be alienating the entire Jewish population instead. Taking a neutral stance would probably just end up pissing both groups off. While I don’t necessarily agree with the position Biden is taking on this, I also understand that there was never an option available to him that wasn’t going to piss someone off.
“Vote blue no matter who” is a moot point to many people, particularly minorities, who will continue to suffer either way. Biden is supporting the murder of Muslims, how could they stomach bubbling his dumbass zionist name on election day?
Once you start throwing around extremist rhetoric like “zionist”, I stop paying attention. And I’m still not sure where essentially supporting a man who is openly and unapologetically racist against Muslims and wants them all deported is considered a good idea.
Yes, they’re being asked to throw up in their mouths a little while voting for the least bad option. I don’t deny that. But you have to understand that if you don’t do that, you’re going to get someone who’s even worse.
First off:
I’m a zionist - Biden himself, literally
Second: It shouldn’t be hard to understand that Muslims want to send a message, a Biden loss would result in introspection in the democratic party (if they have the wherewithal, highly doubtful)
Third: Plenty of Jewish people particularly in America do not unconditionally support Israel as Biden has. All he had to do is force humanitarian aid through in return for further aid. Which would allow the least amount of anger from both sides.
Instead he has decided to completely ignore the very legitimate grievances of one side while fully endorsing the other. Which is exactly what the GOP does, do they enjoy wide Jewish support?
Lastly:
Once you start throwing around extremist rhetoric like “zionist”, I stop paying attention
Thanks for discussing this in good faith by calling my reasonable grievances “extremist rhetoric”. This is exactly what is alienating Muslims. Perfectly proving the point.
First off:
I’m a zionist - Biden himself, literally
Second: It shouldn’t be hard to understand that Muslims want to send a message,
And the message you’ll be sending is that you’re perfectly OK electing a President who actively hates you and wants you deported. In what universe do you think Trump is going to be any better for the Muslim community?
a Biden loss would result in introspection in the democratic party (if they have the wherewithal, highly doubtful)
No, it’ll cause them to wait and say “I told you so” when Trump makes your situation exponentially worse.
Third: Plenty of Jewish people particularly in America do not unconditionally support Israel as Biden has. All he had to do is force humanitarian aid through in return for further aid. Which would allow the least amount of anger from both sides.
It would have done no such thing. It would just cause both sides to demand answers as to why Biden isn’t trying to step in and interfere on their behalf.
Instead he has decided to completely ignore the very legitimate grievances of one side while fully endorsing the other. Which is exactly what the GOP does, do they enjoy wide Jewish support?
Again, you are advocating punishing Biden for his decision in all of this by advocating for the re-election of someone who will not only do the exact same thing anyway, but someone who also actively hates you. You continue to fail to understand that there is no scenario where going down that path is in any way going to work out well for you. You are advocating not only making the situation worse, but electing a man who has campaigned on bringing the hate directly to your doorstep.
Lastly:
Once you start throwing around extremist rhetoric like “zionist”, I stop paying attention
Thanks for discussing this in good faith by calling my reasonable grievances “extremist rhetoric”.
No, I called your use of the word “zionist” in that context extremist rhetoric.
This is exactly what is alienating Muslims. Perfectly proving the point.
Calling you out for using extremist rhetoric is “alienating muslims”? Or is it just not agreeing with you?
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Man, the amount of people in this thread that don’t understand downballot exists, and that’s the best tool to force direction changes within upballot. I always vote for the least worst on the upballot and exclusively progressive+educated in the downballot.
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I disapprove of both.
The situation is the fault of Democrats so I won’t be voting for them. I won’t vote at all. My views are not represented
Keep that in mind when Trump starts the deportations
Do you guys enjoy continually going through this cycle of ‘vote for the least bad war criminal or society will collapse’ every 4 years? You realise that you’re going to lose at some point, right? It amazes me that liberals keep doing this and never think of trying anything else.
The ‘something else’ would be a better voting system that’s not two party. In the meantime, our choices are bad or worse.
Maybe you should put this energy in advocating for change, rather than shaming people into voting for war criminals. You say “in the meantime” like it’s just going to come around to you with no action.
A vote happens once every four years. We are perfectly capable of doing other things on non-voting days. It’s not mutually exclusive
Or instead of serving the side which is in even more in favour of genocide (Republicans) by not voting, you could actually vote in the Democratic primaries in an attempt to ensure they have better candidates.
Your aggressive apathy only serves one side.
Right now, we have a Democrat president. He is the man with the power - and therefore the responsibility - to condemn any atrocities commited. And what is he doing? In every speech he makes, he is openly supporting Israel and its policies. And he doesn’t just stop at words, he supports a gigantic aid package for Israel as well.
There is nothing “higher” in the genocide-supporter-olympics.
Even more in favor of genocide? What’s the difference when the end result is the same? Israel will not stop until it has completely wiped out the Palestinians and taken their land by killing them or otherwise removing them. Let’s pretend democrats are better in this regard (questionable, given the crazy amount of additional billions that Biden has pledged to Israel while they’re actively committing genocide), is a slow genocide any better than a slightly faster one? Excuses are made in other policies as “harm reduction” which is already a flimsy excuse in matters not as deadly but where is the harm reduction here?
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“Look, we’re not silly—we know what Trump has done to our communities,” says Amer Zahr, the president of the Dearborn-based New Generation for Palestine. But when it comes to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, he continues, “The policies are basically the same. Except when Trump does it, you get some pushback from the Democratic Party.”
Positively delusional.
Right? Like great, vote for the GOP, they will definitely care about Arab policies. /s
Foolish and short sighted. Sorry but 2/3 of the US population supports Israel in this conflict, and likely all of the remaining 1/3 is from the young liberal left. Biden is an old democrat, expecting any other result was naive.
But sure, elect an authoritarian Trump. Then instead of protesting, just get thrown in a camp for not being white and christian.
It’s like they’ve forgotten Trump’s policies on Israel that were explicitly reversals of Dem policy during Obama, and even reversals of former, less jingoistically pro-Israel policies of the pre-Obama GOP. Which, mind, were major wins for the far-right government of Bibi which is currently in power in Israel, and eked into power by a fucking thread.
I guess the great thing about being an American is how well everyone assimilates, regardless of ethnic origin. They’re just following in the long and storied American tradition of being fucking clueless about foreign affairs and having the political memories of goldfish.
I really, REALLY hate this line of thinking. I mean with the burning passion of a thousand suns.
Biden is in an unenviable position. Hamas started this war by launching an unprovoked attack knowing full well they couldn’t handle the crackback. Israel has taken their retaliation way too far, well beyond the point of being defensible. They’ve bombed refugee camps and hospitals and when asked about the civillian casualties, basically said “sucks to be them”. What they are doing now is committing the exact genocide that they themselves have been worried about for decades if not centuries now. Biden made a mistake by continuing to stand by Israel even after they admit to and just shrug off the atrocities they commit on the daily, but there was never a position where Biden could pick a side (or even choose to remain neutral) without alienating an entire community of people.
And in almost any other situation, I may agree with them in their desire to either vote for another candidate or just sit home. But there are literally only three options here: Hold your nose and vote for Biden, vote for Trump in protest of Biden, or sit home and not vote at all, which is a de facto vote for Trump. In the immortal words of Rush, “If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.” And that choice benefits Trump.
No matter how pissed off you are at Biden right now, do you think it would be any better under Trump? Did the Trump administration give you any indication that Trump is going to suddenly be sympathetic to an entire race of people that he to this day continues to use racial slurs to describe?
Your choices are (a) Biden, or (b) someone exponentially worse than Biden. That’s it. This is the reality of the situation. If you do not choose (a), you’re choosing (b). If you don’t choose at all, you’ll be given (b) by default. Your only realistic option is to choose (a). Doing anything else because you disagree with the path Biden chose to take will do nothing but make the situation worse. There is no other option. Voting against Biden or choosing to stay home in protest is a textbook example of cutting off your own nose to spite your face. I stopped supporting Israel in any of this the minute they thought bombing a hospital and writing off hundreds of patients as expendable collateral damage was in some way acceptable, but no matter how much I disagree with Biden’s policies, I also know that the only other option available is much, much worse.
Be careful what you wish for, guys. You might get it.
That’s a lot of words to say “at least he’s not Trump!!” Sure would be nice if democrats had a strategy other than that. You know, like actually trying to improve things. What incentive do democrats have to improve things when your vote is guaranteed because not voting for democrats “is a vote for fascism”? I mean, here is Biden, pledging EVEN MORE billions of dollars to Israel as they ramp up their ethnic cleansing efforts. Democrats being fascists with a kinder image isn’t good enough.
It sucks to vote for the least of two evils. But not voting at all is effectively half a vote for the worst of the two. Yeah, it feels like youre resisting if you refuse to play when there’s only a two party system. Not gonna accept only having a choice between two crappy people and their parties! Hold out by not voting! Or by voting for someone who has NO chance ? Well great, then you up your chances of next having no choice at all – with just one insane party and its dictator when they make it permanent. Not acting makes you responsible for installing Emperor Trump. Dint kid yourself.
Except voting for democrats is not acting when the end result is largely the same. There needs to be some way to send the message that we want better. The system is designed to bury that message except for rich donors.
Did you not watch television or something from 2016-2020? Biden isn’t going to enact a proletarian revolution, but he is LEAGUES less destructive for the country than Trump. Like, night and day difference between the two.
It’ll have to be good enough for the next 4 years. When the choice is no longer incumbent vs actual monsters…
Pounding fists on the table saying it’s unacceptable is just little kid energy; like breaking your own toys cuz you’re mad.
I don’t necessarily disagree, but the other side of that coin is that every election is painted this way in America.
Not saying it isn’t true for Trump, but supposing he loses in 24, you don’t think the GOP will stay sufficiently shitty that in 28 they send him up again, or a younger old white guy who’s still sufficiently horrible?
It’s a very very calculated part of the two party system that the Other Guy is offensive enough to those on the fringes of the tent to shame, scare, or guilt them into voting for “their” guy.
Again, I don’t disagree with you, especially in this case, but it’s exactly how the parties are designed to work to perpetuate the illusion of choice. If the Democrats can just point to Trump to convince progressives to keep voting for their guy, when or why would they ever shift their platform in a direction to court more progressive voters?
Exactly, it’s part of the democratic party strategy. Let’s not forget that Hillary Clinton’s team did what they could to position Trump to be the republican nominee: https://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentionally-created-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/
Democrats regularly promote fascists so that they can position themselves as heroes for “standing up to fascism”, a problem which they actively contribute to. It allows them to not actually improve things while pretending they’re the thin blue line separating civil society from wanton destruction.
A friend of mine is very much a Democrat, capital D.
Like…we obviously agree on most issues, but he’s a fairly centrist (American style) moderate Democrat who is active in working with and for his local party organization and basically while he might not like every single thing they do, he doesn’t dislike any of it enough to stop volunteering for the party, much less even think of voting anything other than party line.
This is one of the big areas where we’ve disagreed.
He’s of the same mindset as the comments we’ve replied to, often repeating the same rationale of, “Look, I get it, you want more progress and want different things than the main centrist moderate portion of the party. I get that and I agree with you. But you aren’t getting that with the other side, so what you need to do is vote for what we want in the center, and then once we’re in positions of power, that’s the only chance you have of getting what you want.”
To that I’ve often responded that progressives have tried that route for ages, and all it’s ever gotten them is a party that takes them for granted, and keeps making these far right boogymen to scare their left wing into votes. They’ve made it clear over and over again that they’ll never, ever move left or adopt any platform positions desired by the progressives until and unless those progressives withhold their support.
The party played chicken with progressives in 2016 and underestimated not only the resolve of the progressives but also the apathy of the moderate voters (which they also take for granted…as much as they like to paint the GOP as a party who’s identity is nothing more than anti whatever the Dems want, the Dems themselves have also become the party of “we deserve your vote simply because we’re not them”).
I’m very pleased that my district is currently represented by a progressive. She doesn’t always vote the way I feel on every issue, but even with that taken into account, I feel like she’s doing more to move the country in a direction I want than a centrist would have, and I’ll happily support her next fall.
I continue to vote democrat straight down the ballot every time. Might as well, especially since I can mail in the ballot so it’s not like it’s much effort on my part, but I don’t see any avenue to send the message that I’m not satisfied with most of the party’s policies, which align mainly with the interests of the rich.
They claim that they’ll deliver if they can get power, but when they do get that power, it’s always conveniently blocked by the exact number of democrats that will magically flip to the other side in order to prevent it. Seems like if they do get a super majority, they’ll claim that they must be doing something right to gain such support and will thus stay the course. There just doesn’t seem to be a to voice disapproval in a way that matters. Here are Americans voicing their disapproval in a way that democrats can hear, but Biden continues to pledge overwhelming support for genocide, even though he has the power to do otherwise.
Biden pledging additional billions of dollars to Israel while they’re actively committing genocide is being an actual monster. It’s actual monsters vs actual monsters here. If your only strategy is “always vote for us 100% of the time or the fascists will win” while also committing acts of fascism, then clearly the only outcome can be fascism. Even a little kid can see that, but you’re a super smart adult who is content with fascism because supposedly to accept genocide is the mature thing to do.
Biden isn’t going to try to destroy democracy, and there’s still down ballot Dems to put Biden in a bind. My strategy is to vote for Biden, but vote in Dems that takes in naunces of Israel-Hamas war in the downballot.
Hey, both parties may be bad for Palestinians in Palestine. But they both haven’t been equally bad for Americans, and I’ll always vote for my own self interests because I’d be stupid not to. I just happen to also think it’ll still end up being in their best interests as well.
I just happen to also think it’ll still end up being in their best interests as well.
Elaborate on this. If you’re looking at anything happening in Gaza this is an insane take. “A little genocide is good for you”
You’re obviously trolling. When you wrote that, did you think anyone would say yes? Presidential elections are about so much more than a single global conflict. It factors into my personal decision almost 0% because I know the other option on the table is just as happy to see Muslims die. Since they are the same in that aspect, it’s not worth consideration.
Now, one of the parties ensured my health care coverage when I was unemployed, and the other encouraged acts of sedition. Its not a hard choice.
Self interests such as…? I sure would love to enjoy the benefits of voting democrat, but I’ve yet to find any. I’ve only voted democrat and absolutely refuse to ever vote for republicans, but I’m not going to delude myself into thinking it’s actually making a difference.
It’s gonna sound really patronizing to explain how voting works and how your vote literally counts the same as your neighbors. So, instead, I’ll ask you to complete your secondary school education on your own.
Being told your votes doesn’t count because of how the electrol college works ignores what happens when states flip by a few hundred votes. It absolutely counts. If everyone actually did vote, it’d be an interesting world.
My own self interests tend to be keeping the party in place that appoints Supreme Court justices that don’t roll back peoples rights or elects officials that implement social programs I support, like expanded healthcare, lunch programs and social services. They also take the place of politicians pushing book bans etc.
It’s gonna sound really patronizing because you are being patronizing. You’re also completely missing the point. My vote is counted as in they literally count the vote, but both parties bend to the wills of rich donors. The problem is that democrats are not making a difference.
Your own self interests apparently lie with the party that just sat around with their thumbs up their ass and let republicans block Obama’s last supreme court justice. Not like it matters much, because when democrats do appoint supreme court justices, they appoint the most milquetoast, spineless cowards that will uphold the failing status quo at best. The direction of the supreme court is obvious.
If you’re stupid enough to think democrats actually care about the things you’ve listed, here’s a reality check: https://www.reuters.com/article/obama-abortion/obama-says-abortion-rights-law-not-a-top-priority-idUKN2946642020090430
Obama had the chance to make a lasting difference, and he ran on such promises, but then he turned his back on those promises the second he got in. Democrats sometimes talk the talk, but they never walk the walk. Look in the mirror because you’re the prime example of what’s wrong with the democratic party, a collection of patronizing jackasses who have a savior complex but are completely worthless when it comes to real change.
And in 4 years it’ll be another mediocre candidate who will be elected because they’re the lesser of two evils. It’s not like they’ve got statistics on their side.
You know there are 3 branches of government right? It just so happens that the Senate in the legislative branch is controlled by obstructionist Republicans.
Biden made a mistake by continuing to stand by Israel even after they admit to and just shrug off the atrocities they commit on the daily, but there was never a position where Biden could pick a side (or even choose to remain neutral) without alienating an entire community of people.
In the immortal words of Rush, “If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.”
Sounds like your own quote is contradicting your own point there, chief.
But yeah, you’re sadly in a ‘lesser of two evils’ situation. American foreign policy teaches that this usually gets fixed by assassinating one of the evils and waiting for the power vacuum to be filled by an even lesser evil - repeat until satisfied with the result. I suggest you guys get together and put that second amendment to work.
The two party system is the system we have because we believe in the efficacy of it. I know we make the “vote blue no matter who” arguments but thats fucking exactly what they want. The parties are perfectly positioned to secure different sections of voters and lock them in. Where I felt like I wouldnt want another choice two weeks ago, I am far more likely to consider it now.
The two party system is the system we have because we believe in the efficacy of it.
No, noone believes in the efficacy of it. It is the system you have because it is now beyond anyone’s powers to reform it. It is a mixture of archaic and wilfully corrupt laws and rules, which has petrified into something that disproportionally serves one minority fringe and its interests over all others.
The majority of people does not think it serves their interests, but they are powerless to change it exactly because the small but powerful group whom it actually benefits has disproportionate power to prevent it from happening.
TBF, if Time magazine is saying this then it should cause at least some general concern as we’re a week + one year out from the vote. Single issue voters exist. I’m not addressing/excusing the rationale behind this and I can’t believe I’m calling this pain down on myself, but where are all the “big tent Dems” at? I mean, we can rationalize pandering to the right to pick up house moms that would otherwise vote for Trump, but the concerns of the Arab Americans are a bridge to far? This seems like a blind spot that could come back to haunt us like not campaigning in the midwest in 16’.
Before I get the “blue no matter whos” choir on me as well, just remember there’s a saying that proceeded that; “Democrats vote with their heart” and we need to be very mindful of everyone that relates to, as we can’t afford to lose anyone. Hate doesn’t need to be rational. It often finds it’s best fuel to be emotion.
I mean, man, if I had my way, I’d say fuck Israel, either reduce aid drastically or demand more accountability regarding civilian casualties. But unfortunately, a good half of Dem voters are still quite content to support Israel unconditionally. I absolutely am in favor of reaching out to the Arab-American community, but I doubt it’s going to happen anytime soon.
Honestly, the ‘best’ realistic outcome is that many of us will remember this shitshow, especially those who are young enough to still be forming opinions on international affairs, and unconditional support for Israel will drop further with upcoming voting age cohorts.
Pug Jesus, you always spoil me by the grace of your presence. I hear ya. With the shit shows I’ve been in the middle of lately, doubly so. I didn’t think as much of this when I first heard it, but this is like the 3rd time I’m hearing it and it feels like someone out there in media thinks this is worth warning about.
It already seems like the Biden admin is beginning to see that they are between a rock and a hard place here, so I think a lot of it will come down to how they handle this. Both parties and this system is beyond fucked, but we’re all at the mercy of it till someone can take fascism off the table and put it back in the toilet. I just really hope that they don’t fuck this up man. It already looks like Biden can’t get Israel back on “plan” or pull back on the reins anymore or it would have happened middle of last week. So it feels fucked.
I was knocking doors for candidates today and had an old man just go on for 20 minutes about how things are all falling apart because of 20 years of immigration and that he knew who was secretly all behind it. Yup, Obama. And THAT is why you don’t hear about him in the news anymore.
I don’t want this war to come back here but maybe it was always inevitable. Just so you know, rifle plates and carriers are relatively cheap. <3
Pug Jesus, you always spoil me by the grace of your presence. I hear ya.
You’re too kind! I’m just a bored cripple who pays too much attention to things that make him sad.
With the shit shows I’ve been in the middle of lately, doubly so. I didn’t think as much of this when I first heard it, but this is like the 3rd time I’m hearing it and it feels like someone out there in media thinks this is worth warning about.
Honestly, I don’t think anyone was really expecting this level of… indelicate operations from the Israelis. We’d all gotten ‘used’ to the general oppression and Israeli “Totally guys, we use responsible and discriminate military force in Gaza” excuses, and now it just feels very… mask off. I suspect some apparatchiks in the Israeli government are pissed right now that so much PR work to enable a quiet genocide is being flushed down the drain.
I don’t want this war to come back here but maybe it was always inevitable. Just so you know, rifle plates and carriers are relatively cheap. <3
Argh. As fucked as things are, I tell myself of all the crisis moments we’ve had to deal with, the country only dissolved into civil war once. One hopes that once was enough - and that the alternative isn’t worse.
Maybe something to pass the time then? https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-after-the-revolution-82966686/
If you haven’t already listened to it of course. I think it’s a pretty fun and zany, post revolt schism, sort of cyber punkish/ anti christofascist romp.
Argh. As fucked as things are, I tell myself of all the crisis moments we’ve had to deal with, the country only dissolved into civil war once. One hopes that once was enough - and that the alternative isn’t worse.
I’ve started to wonder if corruption on the global scale hasn’t made all the superpowers incompetent. The US covid response, J6, the current shitshow, and a lack of response to the Republican obstructionism has really lowered my opinion of how robust our government stateside is. I’m unsure that another civil war here would really even be recognizable as such outside maybe fights evolving between cities, states, and the federal government. Probably raids back and forth from those not in the middle. Attacks on supply lines and infrastructure. Who knows really.
Very few see these conflicts for what they really are anyway, (which by my reckoning is) the beginning of the climate wars.
I guess at least we’ve got the brains on our side and that makes things a little more hopeful. And the blessings of his holy Pugness of course.
So they’re going to vote for Trump? Trump is a very strong ally to Israel. Trump certified their land grab of the golan heights. Best guess is he would certify the land grab of all of gaza
No, they just probably won’t vote at all or vote for a third party who won’t win.
Not that it’s a good idea, but that’s what will probably happen. And tbf this is more of a problem resulting from the two party system, so most people don’t like to follow the logic of vote for the lesser evil when there are many other countries that don’t force you into such a situation on literally every political decision.
Which is fair. Neither side really has your back on anything.
Is it better to vote for something you want and not get it, or something you don’t want and get it.
GAH ZAH. Have you seen this place? Rubble everywhere. You can’t live there. It’s in Israel, isn’t it? I say, let the Israelis have their pile of rubble. Those Palestinians don’t live there anymore, can’t imagine why! They should take all of that rubble, crush it down into TINY TINY pebbles, and dump it all on Hilary’s front lawn!
I still don’t understand why the US only has a two-party system, and both of them suck ass. Can’t they elect someone else who actually has actual goals that actually benefit the country and its people? Why aren’t they allowed to do something like this? So much for freedom.
First past the post and the electoral college
Any third party candidate has next to no chance of winning, we have to vote against one side, not for another, so a 3rd party has to get enough support that they can pull the entire base of one side or the other side wins.
Don’t forget single-member districts.
“both sides” ☝️🤓
How are democrats different from republicans when it comes to israel? If the shoe fits…
At least some democrats are willing to admit that Israel may have done some bad
Too bad that doesn’t make a bit of difference to the party’s policies.
Yes, they are indeed another Neoliberal party. However, they’re still better then the Republicans. If you don’t want to vote for the Democrats… The Libertarian party… Exists?.. Somewhat
Too bad voting third party is about as effective as not voting at all. Libertarians are mostly just republicans by another name anyway.
Libertarians are very different from Republicans, sadly the Libertarian party panders to Republicans.
If they’re pandering to republicans then how can they be very different?
HOW DARE THE BROWN PEOPLE NOT VOTE FOR OUR PREFERRED GREMLIN? DON’T THEY KNOW OUR GREMLIN WILL EAT TWICE AS FEW FACES AS THE OTHER SIDES GREMLIN? IS THAT WHAT THEY WANT, A GREMLIN THAT EATS DOUBLE THE AMOUNT OF FACES? THEY SHOULD KNOW THAT WE KNOW WHAT’S BEST FOR THEM WHEN IT COMES TO GREMLINS AND FACE EATING.
only 17% of Arab American voters saying they will vote for Biden in 2024—a staggering drop from 59% in 2020.
Alternate headline: 42% of Arab Americans decide to assist in electing the greater evil because Palestine.
Arab Americans? That’s just Americans, so maybe start thinking like Americans.
Are you Irish on your Mother’s or Father’s side?
