Man the amount of people in this thread that can’t understand that some people don’t want to vote for someone who is supporting a genocide of their own people. “But Trump is worse!” Well, yeah, but this is still pretty fucking bad, and were I American I’d hesitate to support it too. It’s not like most of these people will vote for Trump, they’ll just stay home or vote for a 3rd party.
Those comments make me so angry. There is a genocide being perpetrated on Arabs in Palestine, and Biden is actively defending it. It should be absolutely no surprise that Muslims and Arabs are not going to vote for a genocide denying turd actively trying to fund and arm the perpetrator.
For real, Democratic administrations can’t go and have whatever abhorrent policies, including actively supporting an ethnic cleansing, and turn around and go “the other guy is worse, actually. And if YOU don’t vote for us it’s YOUR fault if this country devolves into fascism”
That is not what a functioning democracy looks like.
It should be absolutely no surprise that Muslims and Arabs are not going to vote for a genocide denying turd actively trying to fund and arm the perpetrator.
I can’t see how voting for the guy who’s going to fund and arm the perpetrator anyway, while using racial slurs to describe you and get you kicked out of the country is any better.
voting for the guy who’s going to fund and arm the perpetrator anyway
There’s your reason right there, everything else literally doesn’t matter. Would you be surprised if a Jewish person didn’t vote for a Holocaust enabler, even if the alternative was someone else who was even more antisemitic?
I also don’t see where you’re getting Muslims are going to vote for trump from, they’re just going to stay home. This is what democrats are best at, blowing minority support because they lack a backbone. If Muslims will suffer either way, why should they even participate?
“Vote blue no matter who” is a moot point to many people, particularly minorities, who will continue to suffer either way. Biden is supporting the murder of Muslims, how could they stomach bubbling his dumbass zionist name on election day?
There’s your reason right there, everything else literally doesn’t matter. Would you be surprised if a Jewish person didn’t vote for a Holocaust enabler, even if the alternative was someone else who was even more antisemitic?
I’m not saying that they have good choices available. And again, I completely understand your point. But you continue to ignore the reality of the situation. In your example, it’s like asking the Jewish person to vote for a Holocaust enabler vs. a Holocaust enabler that actively wants to put them in the gas chambers. Neither one is a good choice by any stretch of the imagination, but even given two extremely bad choices, why choose the one that has a much higher chance of bringing the hate directly to your doorstep?
It’s the classic Sophie’s Choice. But in this case, rather than having to choose between one child or the other, you’re essentially advocating for an alternative where they both die.
I also don’t see where you’re getting Muslims are going to vote for trump from, they’re just going to stay home. This is what democrats are best at, blowing minority support because they lack a backbone. If Muslims will suffer either way, why should they even participate?
Staying home is a de-facto vote for Trump. Especially in a swing state like Michigan. And if Biden were to take the side of the Palestinians, he’d be alienating the entire Jewish population instead. Taking a neutral stance would probably just end up pissing both groups off. While I don’t necessarily agree with the position Biden is taking on this, I also understand that there was never an option available to him that wasn’t going to piss someone off.
“Vote blue no matter who” is a moot point to many people, particularly minorities, who will continue to suffer either way. Biden is supporting the murder of Muslims, how could they stomach bubbling his dumbass zionist name on election day?
Once you start throwing around extremist rhetoric like “zionist”, I stop paying attention. And I’m still not sure where essentially supporting a man who is openly and unapologetically racist against Muslims and wants them all deported is considered a good idea.
Yes, they’re being asked to throw up in their mouths a little while voting for the least bad option. I don’t deny that. But you have to understand that if you don’t do that, you’re going to get someone who’s even worse.
Second:
It shouldn’t be hard to understand that Muslims want to send a message, a Biden loss would result in introspection in the democratic party (if they have the wherewithal, highly doubtful)
Third:
Plenty of Jewish people particularly in America do not unconditionally support Israel as Biden has. All he had to do is force humanitarian aid through in return for further aid. Which would allow the least amount of anger from both sides.
Instead he has decided to completely ignore the very legitimate grievances of one side while fully endorsing the other. Which is exactly what the GOP does, do they enjoy wide Jewish support?
Lastly:
Once you start throwing around extremist rhetoric like “zionist”, I stop paying attention
Thanks for discussing this in good faith by calling my reasonable grievances “extremist rhetoric”. This is exactly what is alienating Muslims. Perfectly proving the point.
Second: It shouldn’t be hard to understand that Muslims want to send a message,
And the message you’ll be sending is that you’re perfectly OK electing a President who actively hates you and wants you deported. In what universe do you think Trump is going to be any better for the Muslim community?
a Biden loss would result in introspection in the democratic party (if they have the wherewithal, highly doubtful)
No, it’ll cause them to wait and say “I told you so” when Trump makes your situation exponentially worse.
Third: Plenty of Jewish people particularly in America do not unconditionally support Israel as Biden has. All he had to do is force humanitarian aid through in return for further aid. Which would allow the least amount of anger from both sides.
It would have done no such thing. It would just cause both sides to demand answers as to why Biden isn’t trying to step in and interfere on their behalf.
Instead he has decided to completely ignore the very legitimate grievances of one side while fully endorsing the other. Which is exactly what the GOP does, do they enjoy wide Jewish support?
Again, you are advocating punishing Biden for his decision in all of this by advocating for the re-election of someone who will not only do the exact same thing anyway, but someone who also actively hates you. You continue to fail to understand that there is no scenario where going down that path is in any way going to work out well for you. You are advocating not only making the situation worse, but electing a man who has campaigned on bringing the hate directly to your doorstep.
Lastly:
Once you start throwing around extremist rhetoric like “zionist”, I stop paying attention
Thanks for discussing this in good faith by calling my reasonable grievances “extremist rhetoric”.
No, I called your use of the word “zionist” in that context extremist rhetoric.
This is exactly what is alienating Muslims. Perfectly proving the point.
Calling you out for using extremist rhetoric is “alienating muslims”? Or is it just not agreeing with you?
Man, the amount of people in this thread that don’t understand downballot exists, and that’s the best tool to force direction changes within upballot. I always vote for the least worst on the upballot and exclusively progressive+educated in the downballot.
Do you guys enjoy continually going through this cycle of ‘vote for the least bad war criminal or society will collapse’ every 4 years? You realise that you’re going to lose at some point, right? It amazes me that liberals keep doing this and never think of trying anything else.
Maybe you should put this energy in advocating for change, rather than shaming people into voting for war criminals. You say “in the meantime” like it’s just going to come around to you with no action.
Or instead of serving the side which is in even more in favour of genocide (Republicans) by not voting, you could actually vote in the Democratic primaries in an attempt to ensure they have better candidates.
Right now, we have a Democrat president. He is the man with the power - and therefore the responsibility - to condemn any atrocities commited. And what is he doing? In every speech he makes, he is openly supporting Israel and its policies. And he doesn’t just stop at words, he supports a gigantic aid package for Israel as well.
There is nothing “higher” in the genocide-supporter-olympics.
Even more in favor of genocide? What’s the difference when the end result is the same? Israel will not stop until it has completely wiped out the Palestinians and taken their land by killing them or otherwise removing them. Let’s pretend democrats are better in this regard (questionable, given the crazy amount of additional billions that Biden has pledged to Israel while they’re actively committing genocide), is a slow genocide any better than a slightly faster one? Excuses are made in other policies as “harm reduction” which is already a flimsy excuse in matters not as deadly but where is the harm reduction here?
Man the amount of people in this thread that can’t understand that some people don’t want to vote for someone who is supporting a genocide of their own people. “But Trump is worse!” Well, yeah, but this is still pretty fucking bad, and were I American I’d hesitate to support it too. It’s not like most of these people will vote for Trump, they’ll just stay home or vote for a 3rd party.
Those comments make me so angry. There is a genocide being perpetrated on Arabs in Palestine, and Biden is actively defending it. It should be absolutely no surprise that Muslims and Arabs are not going to vote for a genocide denying turd actively trying to fund and arm the perpetrator.
For real, Democratic administrations can’t go and have whatever abhorrent policies, including actively supporting an ethnic cleansing, and turn around and go “the other guy is worse, actually. And if YOU don’t vote for us it’s YOUR fault if this country devolves into fascism”
That is not what a functioning democracy looks like.
I can’t see how voting for the guy who’s going to fund and arm the perpetrator anyway, while using racial slurs to describe you and get you kicked out of the country is any better.
There’s your reason right there, everything else literally doesn’t matter. Would you be surprised if a Jewish person didn’t vote for a Holocaust enabler, even if the alternative was someone else who was even more antisemitic?
I also don’t see where you’re getting Muslims are going to vote for trump from, they’re just going to stay home. This is what democrats are best at, blowing minority support because they lack a backbone. If Muslims will suffer either way, why should they even participate?
“Vote blue no matter who” is a moot point to many people, particularly minorities, who will continue to suffer either way. Biden is supporting the murder of Muslims, how could they stomach bubbling his dumbass zionist name on election day?
I’m not saying that they have good choices available. And again, I completely understand your point. But you continue to ignore the reality of the situation. In your example, it’s like asking the Jewish person to vote for a Holocaust enabler vs. a Holocaust enabler that actively wants to put them in the gas chambers. Neither one is a good choice by any stretch of the imagination, but even given two extremely bad choices, why choose the one that has a much higher chance of bringing the hate directly to your doorstep?
It’s the classic Sophie’s Choice. But in this case, rather than having to choose between one child or the other, you’re essentially advocating for an alternative where they both die.
Staying home is a de-facto vote for Trump. Especially in a swing state like Michigan. And if Biden were to take the side of the Palestinians, he’d be alienating the entire Jewish population instead. Taking a neutral stance would probably just end up pissing both groups off. While I don’t necessarily agree with the position Biden is taking on this, I also understand that there was never an option available to him that wasn’t going to piss someone off.
Once you start throwing around extremist rhetoric like “zionist”, I stop paying attention. And I’m still not sure where essentially supporting a man who is openly and unapologetically racist against Muslims and wants them all deported is considered a good idea.
Yes, they’re being asked to throw up in their mouths a little while voting for the least bad option. I don’t deny that. But you have to understand that if you don’t do that, you’re going to get someone who’s even worse.
First off:
I’m a zionist - Biden himself, literally
Second: It shouldn’t be hard to understand that Muslims want to send a message, a Biden loss would result in introspection in the democratic party (if they have the wherewithal, highly doubtful)
Third: Plenty of Jewish people particularly in America do not unconditionally support Israel as Biden has. All he had to do is force humanitarian aid through in return for further aid. Which would allow the least amount of anger from both sides.
Instead he has decided to completely ignore the very legitimate grievances of one side while fully endorsing the other. Which is exactly what the GOP does, do they enjoy wide Jewish support?
Lastly:
Thanks for discussing this in good faith by calling my reasonable grievances “extremist rhetoric”. This is exactly what is alienating Muslims. Perfectly proving the point.
And the message you’ll be sending is that you’re perfectly OK electing a President who actively hates you and wants you deported. In what universe do you think Trump is going to be any better for the Muslim community?
No, it’ll cause them to wait and say “I told you so” when Trump makes your situation exponentially worse.
It would have done no such thing. It would just cause both sides to demand answers as to why Biden isn’t trying to step in and interfere on their behalf.
Again, you are advocating punishing Biden for his decision in all of this by advocating for the re-election of someone who will not only do the exact same thing anyway, but someone who also actively hates you. You continue to fail to understand that there is no scenario where going down that path is in any way going to work out well for you. You are advocating not only making the situation worse, but electing a man who has campaigned on bringing the hate directly to your doorstep.
No, I called your use of the word “zionist” in that context extremist rhetoric.
Calling you out for using extremist rhetoric is “alienating muslims”? Or is it just not agreeing with you?
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Man, the amount of people in this thread that don’t understand downballot exists, and that’s the best tool to force direction changes within upballot. I always vote for the least worst on the upballot and exclusively progressive+educated in the downballot.
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I disapprove of both.
The situation is the fault of Democrats so I won’t be voting for them. I won’t vote at all. My views are not represented
Keep that in mind when Trump starts the deportations
Do you guys enjoy continually going through this cycle of ‘vote for the least bad war criminal or society will collapse’ every 4 years? You realise that you’re going to lose at some point, right? It amazes me that liberals keep doing this and never think of trying anything else.
The ‘something else’ would be a better voting system that’s not two party. In the meantime, our choices are bad or worse.
Maybe you should put this energy in advocating for change, rather than shaming people into voting for war criminals. You say “in the meantime” like it’s just going to come around to you with no action.
A vote happens once every four years. We are perfectly capable of doing other things on non-voting days. It’s not mutually exclusive
Or instead of serving the side which is in even more in favour of genocide (Republicans) by not voting, you could actually vote in the Democratic primaries in an attempt to ensure they have better candidates.
Your aggressive apathy only serves one side.
Right now, we have a Democrat president. He is the man with the power - and therefore the responsibility - to condemn any atrocities commited. And what is he doing? In every speech he makes, he is openly supporting Israel and its policies. And he doesn’t just stop at words, he supports a gigantic aid package for Israel as well.
There is nothing “higher” in the genocide-supporter-olympics.
Even more in favor of genocide? What’s the difference when the end result is the same? Israel will not stop until it has completely wiped out the Palestinians and taken their land by killing them or otherwise removing them. Let’s pretend democrats are better in this regard (questionable, given the crazy amount of additional billions that Biden has pledged to Israel while they’re actively committing genocide), is a slow genocide any better than a slightly faster one? Excuses are made in other policies as “harm reduction” which is already a flimsy excuse in matters not as deadly but where is the harm reduction here?
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