Was there even a mass exodus? I largely avoid Reddit now, but I do kind of doubt that they’ve been hurt in any meaningful way by all the protests and people leaving…
Is it important that Reddit suffers? For me the important thing is that lemmy flourishes and has good oc.
I support this point of view, but at the same time I want the status quo to be disrupted and the internet to change, I’m not a fan of allowing corporations to fall into complacency when they hold so much power.
Right? Ignore them, have fun here. No reason to give any thought to them.
That’s the spirit!
This is what I wish more lemmings would grasp. I’ve commented before how there’s this disillusionment that reddit actually died when a bunch of people left. It didn’t. The sooner everyone can stop being in denial about that, the better.
The situation is really more akin to an abusive ex and the people that left realizing that they’re better off without them. You’re in a better place. Stop talking about, focusing on the drama that your ex brought and just embrace your newer better environment.
Millions of people are in that situation and don’t leave because they’ve been manipulated, they’re scared, and in this case addicted. My brother in law switched from Apollo to the official app and hates it, complains every day, and says reddit sucks now…but won’t leave.
To use your analogy of the abusive ex… would you want someone to just never talk about the abusive ex? Never process the trauma? That’s what a lot of people are doing. Noticing that the abusive ex is imploding into a death spiral is kind of validating of your decision to leave. It’s part of the process. There’s no need to shame people for it.
The post is a week old, but regardless, people have had their time to grieve and process. Your friends and family were there for you, they let you vent, they helped you make the transition away from your partner…but they’re gone. It’s time to move on. Let it go. You’re stuck in denial while most people have made it all the way to acceptance. Everyone is ready for you to stfu about your ex.
You’re also reading too much into the analogy. This isn’t really an ex, it’s a link aggregating website and online forum. Just like nobody cared if you deleted your myspace, your Facebook, digg, Tumblr, TikTok, YouTube, etc…nobody really cares that you deleted your reddit account.
They’ve had their time according to you but maybe people can make their own decisions? Also maybe just chill about it? You don’t have to listen, you don’t have to be here for any of the conversations.
Also you’ve created an entire community of family and friends with backstories so you can then tell me all these imaginary people want me to “stfu”, but apparently I’m the one “reading too much into the analogy”. I think you’re the one that just wants me to “stfu” but you don’t want to say it directly.
I think you’re the one that just wants me to “stfu” but you don’t want to say it directly.
Yes, that would be great. Stfu. Please. Thank you.
You don’t have to listen, you don’t have to be here for any of the conversations.
You seem to have missed the extreme irony in saying this whole replying to a sub comment a week after it was posted by someone who agreed with me.
If you want me to stfu you can just block me, or just stop saying things directy to me that are blatantly wrong. Up to you ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
And I don’t see what the age of the thread or the fact the poster agreed with you - although they don’t exactly, that’s another thing you’re wrong about - has to do with anything. I’m not here complaining about you talking, I’m pointing out how what you’re saying is wrong. You’re the one literally saying you want people to “stfu”. I’m glad you’ve at least owned it now.
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It can be seen as a statistic for lemmy’s success
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Migration goes beyond sheer numbers. The 3.8k users are probably the one that were the most attached to initial Reddit, hence people who would contribute the more. I would rather be with those 3.8k users than the millions of people okay with staying on Reddit despite Spez’s decisions.
I hope that once Lemmy is a bit more polished (instance blocking, account migration, hot filtering working etc.), we will gradually see a second wave of arrivals.
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It’s currently impossible to follow a GDPR information delete request for example, because you can’t delete the info from other instances.
What makes it impossible? Why would any given instance maintainer be responsible for the data on someone else’s instance? Would it not fall on the GDPR requester to make that request of each individual instance?
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So then if someone requests that Gmail delete all their email data, is Google then responsible for making sure any emails sent out from it’s server to another is also deleted from those external servers?
Just in case you guys are wondering, there’s probably dozens of us enjoying the fuck out of this conversation. Thank you for asking questions I wouldn’t think of asking. On behalf of all three of us lurking.
Lol yeah this is great.
See https://gdpr-info.eu/issues/right-to-be-forgotten/
Once the “controller has made the personal data public”, they have legal obligations. When you send an email, you are not making it public.
I don’t have the answer but I think of it like this.
Email is essentially a direct conversation between you and someone in the same room but you may extend (cc) to those people in the house. There is an implicit “I am including you in the conversation”
Lemmy on the other hand is more akin to talking to someone in a crowded bar but the conversation is recorded and anyone over the world has the ability to listen to the conversation at any given time.
Apples and oranges.
Interesting perspective, but then cannot we consider that Lemmy users are aware that they are including all of the Fediverse in their conversation? That way Lemmy instances could be treated in the same way email providers are
Unless these instances are showing ads and selling data, I’m pretty sure they’re protected from the law. Not only that but if you’re not hosting in the EU that law doesn’t apply to you.
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The problem here is how does that work? If I host something in the USA, how is someone going to bring a lawsuit towards me if I am also in the USA?
Asking honest questions here. As this just sounds like a lot of chest thumping from the EU.
“Provided your company doesn’t specifically target its services at individuals in the EU, it is not subject to the rules of the GDPR.”
Just say, we don’t provide or target EU individuals and you’re free.
This is a big issue of eu regulations. They are needed, but don’t account for non profit initiatives, in practice favoring big players
Well, the upside and the downside of GDPR is that if you’re not a member of the EU, you can basically just tell them to go fuck themselves because they have little to no actual power to impact you since you’re not within their jurisdiction.
But if that were the case, wouldn’t GDPR already be used to take down TOR or torrents or any other p2p tech? All it would take is someone’s personal information being on them, right? (I’m really asking I have no idea)
That’s a good point. Right now if I send something out, even if the company I submitted it to deletes it from their servers, doesn’t mean other users will delete copies of the data I want to have deleted. Only the party I submitted it to will have to delete it.
Just take a screenshot of a tweet or a LinkedIn profile or whatever someone posts here in the Fediverse, anyone can capture a copy of it.
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Then you adapt to that threat with user exports or built in auto migration methods.
The distributed nature makes it much harder to down the fediverse with legal claims than it does reddit/twitter/whatever already. Just being hosted in different countries makes these claims a stunning pain in the ass, as many countries do not require any compliance with the DMCA.
Sure if you want to play in a sandbox alone and have nothing but privacy and lqbgt content (nothing against them in the least bit).
I’m never to sure about GDPR. The spirit of the law is that any identifiable information has to indeed be removed.
However, does a Lemmy username really fit that definition? If John Doe has all of his Lemmy content under CoolNick89, I’m not sure GDPR applies.
Emails, especially if they contain first and last name, are a different story, but those would only be known by the host instance.
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Interesting, thanks. I’ll research this further.
IP addresses make more sense, because they can be used to be cross-checked with your ISP to know who you are.
If you don’t tell anyone your username and use a VPN, there is no way for people to guess your Lemmy username
The next wave won’t come until Lemmy post are indexed by google and ranking up on the first page. Until then, searching for obscure things will still land on old Reddit posts.
Mass migration or not, I’m happier to be here with all of you.
I have to admit, when I came here I was hoping this would be a mass migration, but these days I think Lemmy is already great even without the bulk of Reddit’s user base joining. Easier to participate in conversions, less trolling, less aggression, fewer bots…
Not saying I don’t want Lemmy to grow more, but it’s a fantastic place already.
yeah people here are generally nicer. I do wish there more more active niche communities though
Ditto. This has been great
You get a Lemmy and you get a Lemmy and you get a Lemmy… 😉
I wish some of the subs I frequented the most were a bit more active here, but I guess it’s a bit chicken and egg. Need to interact more with Lemmy ourselves to motivate others to.
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How many users moved away from Lemmy.world to another instance?
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I agree but I still want Reddit to burn 😂. But I’m an asshole so that’s okay.
Hear, hear!
Here, here!
Their user numbers are available with a web search. Reddit useage dipped towards end of June but has mostly leveled out.
Quite a few mods left, which has had a larger impact than an equal number of general users leaving would. The niche topic sub I was involved in went from four mods to one half-hearted mod. The quality of posts has dropped. Almost every comment thread contains complaints. Reports are piled up.
Most surprising to me when I peeked at the sub this weekend was the amount of borderline-incel desperation and negativity. The sub is for a hobby that while slightly male majority, we had plenty of women contributing with minimal problems. Not anymore. If I were a woman looking at that sub for the first time, I would probably block it. It is so depressing and angry now, I barely recognize it.
I have to wonder how much of Reddit’s traffic is bots and lurkers though.
Post quality is a bigger indicator, and that does seem to be dropping. This is why Reddit banning 3rd party apps was such a big deal. It doesn’t matter if 99% of your users use the official app if 99% of the content posted to the side is posted by the 1% that don’t.
As someone who was around for the digg migration, it didn’t drop off overnight (hell digg.com is still around), but they gradually bled content until everyone was on Reddit. Lemmy right now is very reminiscent of early Reddit.
Post quality is a bigger indicator, and that does seem to be dropping
That’s the thing - it’s hard to track this. If anything it’ll be a slow decline
It’s hard to track this
Not at all. I can already see a decline in the number of Reddit TTS videos I see on my feed and when I do, they’re mostly years old
TTS?
Text to speech. There are Tiktok accounts that just scrape popular text posts from Reddit and read them out through text to speech over a video of something like Minecraft parkour or Subway Surfers.
Agreed and not just content creators but active users in general. I bet someone like me who now on average posts 10 messages a day to Lemmy was more valuable to reddit than 10 lurkers.
Do you mind sharing the sub? I’m curious to take a look.
No idea, and I don’t care. What matters for me is that there are enough people on Lemmy to keep it interesting.
word
How in the bloody hell are those characters in a username?!
I fucking love it, my guy!
Just wanted to say that’s a real cool username
I didn’t leave to make the service worse.
The service got worse, and so I left.
But why not both? 😂
Personally I came over bc the app I used stopped working (boost). Lemmy seems to have the same content I used reddit for:
- US politics headlines
- Memes
- Niche communities
I don’t plan on going back to reddit unless it’s via Boost. Fediverse is better anyway
Poor one out for Boost! I’m on the waiting list for his new Boost for Lemmy. Can’t wait.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.rubenmayayo.lemmy
Sameee! Excited to see the finished product
Can’t wait for Boost for Lemmy to release.
The app will continue to work if you are a moderator of any subreddit… I’ve got a few subreddits that I created myself, with only me in it, and because of that I can still use the app.
Considering deleting my account however…
This is neat information but I can’t be arsed to go do all that 😂
Fair lol
Can’t speak for anyone else, but as soon as RIF died I was gone. Was on it for over 10 years, and the only way I would view reddit content. Reddit’s ui is cancer.
Strangely, RiF works again for browsing
I don’t even see it in the playstore anymore ¯\(ツ)/¯
Several major subs have closed, they’re forced to campaign to keep mods, a significant amount of content generators have left. Even though it’s been only a couple weeks, they’ve slid on the global index of visited sites. They’ve lost 3-4% of 1.7 billion views in weeks. That’s 10’s of millions of ads not delivered. That alone is several million dollars lost on a site trying to be profitable. This doesn’t include people on the fence, people currently unaffected because their app didn’t die until this week, or people just watching the drama until it’s boring again. Also, Reddit depends heavily on free labor to succeed, the bulk of the community that is leaving is their free labor pool. They don’t have the cash to pay moderators for their time and they just removed the tools that let those people do their work.
What major subs did close? Not saying it’s not so, just curious.
/r/pics didn’t close, but probably doesn’t get the clicks it did before.
/r/bestof seems to only make a daily protest post.
I’ve stopped visiting so much, so I don’t know a lot, but those two seem significant.
Removed by mod
This place is fueled by pure compium.
If you’re going to rail at someone, at least check for typos first.
Gotem!
At time of posting, there are still 1922 subreddits that are private
https://reddark.untone.uk/
Or the 855 subreddits that have chosen to move to other platforms on sub.rehab
But hey, if you don’t like it here, that’s fine, you don’t have to be here. If you’re that bored that you’re choosing to spend time flaming in a social media that you don’t enjoy, might I suggest some hobbies like video games, picking up an instrument, or underwater basket weaving.
Cheers
This didn’t happen quickly with Digg either. This won’t be as substantially decimating to the platform as the Digg exodus was, because reddit is WAY bigger than Digg was.
I’d say it took me about 3-4 years to fully migrate away from Digg to reddit, and that process was very similar to today, where there were a ton of platforms gaining steam (even while it was pretty clear that reddit was where the party went).
I think reddit’s quality of content will deteriorate over time, and the moderation will suffer. It is going to die a death of 1000 paper cuts. The API change was just reddit saying “Hey, come stab us with your paper knives!”
idk. Reddit in 15 years will probably look a lot like newspapers do today. Kind of a joke, but somehow still standing.
I think you are 100% right. This is a slow burn not something that will happen overnight.
And on top of that, it’s good that it takes time. The fediverse is still maturing. The slow changeover gives the new people time to contribute and make the place beter, and build capability for when serious numbers start to migrate.
People can contribute ideas, feedback, code, money for server costs and obviously content so when there is a bigger exodus there’s something here for new people to absorb.
This seems to me similar to what building dual power looks like, it’s just this is the digital version. A single cataclysmic moment of rupture isn’t a good thing unless there are structures in place strong enough to pick up the pieces.
I don’t know if I’d call it a mass exodus, and I don’t know that it directly has anything to do with Lemmy, but there’s been a noticeable dip in quality. Fewer posts across many of the front page subreddits, fewer votes, more bot posts, more low effort posts, less discussion in comment sections, lots of deleted comments and accounts… overall there just seems to be a dip in quality.
I was going to delete, but decided to stick around for a while first, to see how things pan out, and I’ve got to say the mobile site is even worse than expected. I get constant pop ups trying to direct me to download the app, then when I say no the website will auto reload, often sending me back to the top of the page. It’s difficult to find and respond to anyone who replies to your comments, and sometimes if you sort by top: today it won’t even show any posts. Just… blank. Clicking on a post opens it as a tab that is more like a popup, and closing it resets where you were on the page.
I could keep going but I think that pretty much summarizes what I’ve noticed. Don’t know that it’s directly related to a Lemmy “exodus,” and I’m still finding my way around here so I can’t really say, but reddit as we knew it seems pretty dead.
Fuck Reddit. I’m here now and it’s great.
It would be really cool if all us ex-redditers sued Reddit and Google for “unjust enrichment” which is a cause of action in most states. They’re are currently taking OUR comments and selling them, meanwhile paywalling the platform. If each of us went to the county clerk and sued them for whatever is the maximum for small claims court, it could be thousands of petty little lawsuits that would cost them a fortune in lawyers. Or end up being a class action suit that could put them out of business. If they ignore the suit, they lose. When you file the suit, you file a discovery asking reddit and google to provide all your comments properly identified by date, etc,; And also for copies of their contract and to identify and produce any other party and contract that they may have sold your comments to. That alone is a huge pain in the butt for them. You have to prove that you contributed to reddit, that they sold your comments and earned money. I can’t do this as a nomad, but it would be cool. Could be a good exercise for a young lawyer here.
Welcome !
If we’re perfectly honest - No.
Reddit has over 53 some odd million users. Million with an M. Lemmy has gained, at most, upwards of just thousands. To call it a ‘mass exodus’ is really overselling it.
It’s going to take a fairly long time, for Lemmy to even scratch 100k even. I’m on both Reddit and Lemmy. Lemmy, for a more positive experience. Reddit, because the numbers are just there.
This crisis has given Lemmy enough users to be a vibrant, viable alternative with the software and apps undergoing rapid development. This means the next time that reddit tries to pull some shit, there will be somewhere for people to go, unlike this time. Lemmy just wasn’t really ready for prime time.
I think you are correct. Lemmy is really just gearing up at the moment, but can’t handle the volume to compete with reddit.
The increase of instances, user guides, communities and third party apps are necessary building stones of a federated reddit alternative of size.
God can you imagine the shit show if millions had tried to come at once this last time? We’d accidently ddos the fediverse to the stone age.
Don’t forget the censorship of the power mods. That’s going to be fun here. Already you have swiss cheese in content depending on how tight your mods sphincter is.
This is it. Reddit will keep pulling dumb shit that drives users away and hurts engagement for short term profits. Having viable and stable alternatives gives people a place to go so they don’t feel trapped.
Lemmy has almost half a million accounts ( 400k ) with over 1.5 million posts. lemmy.world grew by ~30k new accounts in June.
Others grew by single digit thousands, so the migration seems to be about ~50k new users to Lemmy.
That’s not trivial, Reddit had those kind of numbers in like 2007. Give it time.
Want this the case when Reddit was tiny and Digg was huge too?
The landscape was different. Digg was in 2004. Reddit in 2005. They both came in a time where social media was at it’s infancy and it was anyone’s game to make it big. Whereas today, there are already established social media sites and the best any alternative social media outlet can do anymore, is absorb some numbers and try to prove to be the better alternative. It’s a lot about thinking outside the box and figuring what a platform can do that the other can’t.
Generally I agree with you, but let me steelman a different argument. It feels to me like we are in the early stages of another digital renaissance like the one that happened during the rise of Reddit & Facebook. I remember that time well as I was just starting high school, and Reddit opened an entirely new world for me after leaving Digg. It felt like where all the cool kids hung out if you will. There was this wealth of information, discussion, political discourse, and it scratched the itch that ultimately formed a lot of who I am today.
It has always been the visionaries who are then backed by the early adopters that form internet culture. Lemmy is, again, where the cool kids (and technically inclined) are choosing to hang out. There is an exclusivity to it, and that feeling of breaking from the herd. That is an exciting and addicting feeling for content creators and users alike. This is all happening as major players like Meta & Twitter are warring with each other over users, and while Reddit allowed itself to succumb to the narcissistic ambitions of one moron (fuck u/spez) who never cared about the spirit of what used to make Reddit truly great.
I think a lot of us (me included) got complacent, and bogged down in the feeling that there would never be a time where the internet felt new, and alive again. It is a failure of imagination really, and I hope this can be one shot across the bow to the major power structures behind the previous generation of social media that blind corporatism rarely if ever can capture the magic or lightning in a bottle that has been the bedrock of culture in the information age. Only time will tell how this project will evolve and change or if it can become something truly great that stands the test of time. But I, for one, am sincerely hoping that it does…just as much for myself as for all of you!
As long as we don’t let ourselves get complacent again this time. I’m not sure what I’d do if even the Fediverse eventually goes the same way.
So what’s the solution to blow this joint and start a new paradigm? Television killed radio. Blogs and streaming killed television. Current social media killed blogs. If the fediverse isn’t the solution, then what’s going to kill and replace current 2010s era social media? And don’t say short form video, because that was cool for maybe a decade before the big corpos started pushing it and it was no longer cool.
Decentralized social media seems like the logical next step. And all major platforms seem to either have users going that way (Reddit, Twitter) or are themselves going that way (Mark Fuckerberg’s bullshit)
I sure hope you’re right. Decentralization won’t solve all the issues of course, and will cause its own problems, but it will hopefully be at least a little better the the chain of walled gardens and outrage- and clickbait-driven cesspool that the internet is right now.
Corpos ruin everything
Profit wise, absolutely not. However, they are probably losing their most technical users. Generally the ones that have some sort of tech background or knowledge and see through their BS, and who are also much more likely to support open source alternatives (and third party apps) and have an easier time figuring out the fediverse. Maybe they care about that, maybe they don’t (probably don’t).
