That’s obviously a misrepresentation of the opposing point of view, whether you agree with it or not. It’s more like “Imposing a ceasefire prevents Israel from retaliating against Hamas killing 1200 civilians”.
I wouldn’t call it a misrepresentation. That’s the form of retaliation they’ve decided to take, so if you are of the opinion that preventing Israel from seeking that retaliation is bad, you have to be fine with indiscriminate bombing of civilians.
Using loaded words like “indiscriminate” that carry a specific wartime meaning is not helpful in this case. The bombing of Dresden was indiscriminate. Israel using PGMs on specific buildings is not. Plus, the bombings aren’t even the main reason for public outcry — it’s the blockade (rightfully so).
I like how I get downvoted just for asking for a source. That article has mixed feelings about the reliability of the 20k estimate, but even if it’s only half that, it’s a lot of dead civilians.
The problem faced by the IDF is in fighting an insurgent force that deliberately embeds itself into the civilian population of a very densely-populated area with shoddy building quality. There’s basically no way to fight Hamas without innocent Palestinians getting caught in the crossfire. I do think Israel has made its point and am glad that most of the world is pushing for a ceasefire now.
That article has mixed feelings about the reliability of the 20k estimate
True.
ARE THE PUBLISHED CASUALTY NUMBERS COMPREHENSIVE?
No, experts told Reuters.
“Our monitoring suggests that the numbers provided by the Ministry of Health may be under-reporting as they do not include fatalities who did not reach hospitals or may be lost under the rubble,” the U.N. human rights office spokesperson said.
“It is a logical assumption that the numbers being reported are underestimated, are low,” said Nathaniel Raymond, Executive Director of the Humanitarian Research Lab at the Yale School of Public Health, who has worked on death counts in armed conflict and natural disasters for more than 20 years.
The PA’s Oct. 26 report said at least 1,000 bodies could not be recovered or brought to morgues, citing families interviewed by its Gaza staff - a clear and plausible example of the impact of war “on data capture and reporting”, the Lancet article read.
The number of bodies feared buried under the rubble now reaches into the thousands and much of the Gaza civil defence force’s digging equipment has been destroyed in air strikes, the PA’s health minister al-Kaila said on Tuesday.
The problem faced by the IDF is in fighting an insurgent force that deliberately embeds itself into the civilian population of a very densely-populated area with shoddy building quality. There’s basically no way to fight Hamas without innocent Palestinians getting caught in the crossfire.
In any other situation where a group was using civilians as hostages like this, we would call bombing the hostages as a first resort psychotic. This is just as true for Israel.
How the hell did we get to the point that saying “maybe you should stop indiscriminately bombing the hell out of civilians” was at all controversial?
This is such a good question
That’s obviously a misrepresentation of the opposing point of view, whether you agree with it or not. It’s more like “Imposing a ceasefire prevents Israel from retaliating against Hamas killing 1200 civilians”.
I wouldn’t call it a misrepresentation. That’s the form of retaliation they’ve decided to take, so if you are of the opinion that preventing Israel from seeking that retaliation is bad, you have to be fine with indiscriminate bombing of civilians.
Using loaded words like “indiscriminate” that carry a specific wartime meaning is not helpful in this case. The bombing of Dresden was indiscriminate. Israel using PGMs on specific buildings is not. Plus, the bombings aren’t even the main reason for public outcry — it’s the blockade (rightfully so).
What are we trying to be helpful about, exactly? Nearly 20k dead over the course of a couple months is plenty indiscriminate.
Where did you get that 20k figure?
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/how-many-palestinians-have-died-gaza-war-how-will-counting-continue-2023-12-06/
From a few days ago.
I like how I get downvoted just for asking for a source. That article has mixed feelings about the reliability of the 20k estimate, but even if it’s only half that, it’s a lot of dead civilians.
The problem faced by the IDF is in fighting an insurgent force that deliberately embeds itself into the civilian population of a very densely-populated area with shoddy building quality. There’s basically no way to fight Hamas without innocent Palestinians getting caught in the crossfire. I do think Israel has made its point and am glad that most of the world is pushing for a ceasefire now.
I didn’t downvote you, for the record.
True.
In any other situation where a group was using civilians as hostages like this, we would call bombing the hostages as a first resort psychotic. This is just as true for Israel.
Arguably, after these many thousands of deaths, we can call the “retaliation” part of the equation satisfied.