For example, an English person called Bob might introduce themselves as “Bob”, whereas an American person called Bob might introduce themselves as “Bahb”. (Sorry, don’t know the phonetic alphabet but hopefully you get my gist)
Should you pronounce those two people’s names the same, with your own natural accent, or should you copy how the person says their own name?
Edit: I specifically picked a generic English name with different pronunciation across different accents. I know my wording wasn’t great, sorry! Hopefully the edit is a bit clearer.
Context and other languages
When pronouncing a name from a different language, I firmly believe you should copy the pronunciation of the owner of that name, and not Anglicise the name unless asked to. I say this as a speaker of a language that English people regularly mispronounce and even insist to me that they know the correct pronunciation of my language.
I’m one of these types of people, if I am around an accent enough, I pick it up very quickly, I cannot help it.
I’d likely pronounce a name the same as the person speaks it to me. Really depends on the accent/language and my correlating familiarity with it though.
You might have a fair point but who the fuck in the US pronounces it “Bahb”.
Lmao I don’t know why I find it funny.
Just said “hi bahb” to my grandfather bob and he told me he was going to disinherit me. But I digress I don’t know the phonetic symbols either.
The ahh sound is pretty common in New England accents I’m pretty certain. Goin to the ha-bah this sum-ah (harbor this summer).
Many of us don’t pronounce Rs completely, and vowel sound have a slight adjustment. Bob, and Bahb, is such a small change, but saying Bob in Maine or Boston, I totally hear it, Bahb. Yeah, I totally understand what OP means.
As a classroom teacher for students who are >80% immigrants from non-anglophone countries, I can actually speak with some authority on the subject. I have many students who have traditional names in other languages, as well as students whose parents 100% just made up something they thought sounded nice. I am one of the few teachers who emphasises correctly pronouncing students’ names. If they put stress on the second syllable, I put stress on the second syllable. If they have a non-english phoneme, you bet I’m learning how to do the clicks in Xhosa, or the “ng” in Vietnamese or Maori. I work very hard to make sure I’m pronouncing their names exactly how they do.
I have had three students in the last month alone remark on how I am the only teacher they’ve ever had who pronounced their name “right”. I have a student named Djibril who had extremely poor relationships with most of the teachers in the building, but who always does my work, and he straight up told me last year that it was because I am the only person in the entire school who actually pronounces his name correctly. Everyone else just calls him “juh-BRILL”, when he says it should be pronounced closer to “JEE-breel” (with a lilted r).
Making sure you pronounce someone’s name how they pronounce their name can be extremely important to social relationships, and having an anglicised name attached to them against their will is often mentioned among memoirs of immigrants as one of the first and most alienating things to happen to them when they enter an anglophone country. It’s not about expecting others to cater to your weird name. It’s about people having a basic modicum of respect for the humanity of non-dominant cultures. In america, at least, this respect has never been a thing. From Ellis island literally changing people’s names because they thought they would be hard for “real” Americans to pronounce, to interning anyone with a japanese name regardless of how long their family was in the US, to the new fascist roundups of anyone with a name that sounds plausibly nonwhite.
So, even with different “accents”, I’d say that pronouncing it exactly how they say it can be important. If someone in Germany went to the trouble of pronouncing the ‘w’ in my name with an american “w”, I’d appreciate it, at the least, but it would probably also make me remember them fondly every time someone else pronounced it accented.
Yes because accents are funny
I will attempt to say a person’s name how they say it. If they say “call me [simple anglicized name]” then I will do that.
Most people seem to appreciate the effort. I’m sure my American vocals butcher some pronouciations, but I don’t make a big deal out of it and my work gives me a lot of chances to practice. I will always make a good faith attempt at last names.
I live in Texas and will pronounce food names of Mexican origin with a Mexican accent. Burrito, taco, chalupa.
That’s where I land. I had one friend named Juanita who praised me for being the only one who pronounced her name correctly! Then I have another polish friend who ISNT named Chris. He’s very vocal “just call me Chris”
I’m interested in names because I personally am “Michael” not “Mike”
It seems like a simple thing but it isn’t. A name is only “the sound I make to get your attention “ if you shout @mike” I won’t hear you. It’s a very common name. I’m Michael not Mike.
Sure thing Mike /s
That’s the thing! It’s not annoying or insult to call me Mike.
If you shout “Mike” I’m not going to look because I’m not Mike. It’s not a personal preference. You might as well shout “Abraham” it’s not my name.
Edit: my point is you can call me Mike if you want. I don’t care. Just understand I don’t naturally respond to every variation of Michael shouted at me. It’s a common name.
My brain ignores names that aren’t mine. Mike, Mikey, Mickey, … you might as well shout Abraham. It’ll have the same effect.
For the food thing, as a Midwesterner I feel like I come across as making fun of the other person when I try too hard. Like the people who say “Bærthélōnã” after they get back from two weeks in northwest Spain; it’s not going to fit into my normal speech pattern, it’ll just sound like I’m trying to draw attention to it if I say “bûɽɽɽito.”
But for names? I dunno man, that’s your name. I don’t want you to feel left out if I’m pronouncing “Evelyn” and “Leo” and “Elliott” perfectly, but then I stumble over “Rekha” or “Urooj” or “Joãozinho.” I’ll try to at least get as close as I can to the way I hear you pronounce it.
I honestly feel like the “you’re trying to hard to pronounce the country/city/food name” vibe is silly anyways. If they pronounce it “Bærthélōnã” in Barcelona, then why shouldn’t I try to pronounce it that way? Especially these days in our hyper-connected world, I don’t really have an excuse of “well I never knew they said it that way”.
I don’t mean people who earnestly pronounce it the way they do in Barcelona, I mean the people who make a huge deal out of saying it as intensely as possible, trying to call attention to how well-traveled they are by making it sound super alien.
If you get the chance, don’t be afraid to ask. People are usually pretty clear on what they will respond to, if asked. If the accent or name is too hard, you can work with them on a compromise nickname that’s easier for you and that they agree to.
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This question reminds me of a dog I ended up with. He knew his name, but only in the same accent as his previous owner. So I’d be at the dog park in New England calling for my dog in the most exaggerated southern accent I could muster.
That’s really funny to me. What was his name and what was he like?
His name’s “Elvis” and he answered to “Aye-ellll-vis”. Now he doesn’t answer to anything because he’s gone deaf, but he’s still a great pup. He’s a senior terrier mix, about 10 pounds. He’s a bit of a velcro dog and I am the One True Human, so it sucks for him that I work outside the home. He’s stuck with Work From Home Partner, who just doesn’t fill the same void in Elvis’s heart. So, Elvis sleeps all day and then watches the front very attentively when he decides I should come home.
He still has bursts of energy. Last weekend he met a chihuahua his age. Elvis was like “omg, you’re slightly smaller than me and seem even more chill. Let me dance around and thwack you in the face so you’ll play with me”. The other pup was game and it was adorable to watch two seniors playing.
He goes on long hikes with me. He gets tired after about a block and will turn around and try and get me to go back to the car. I generally just carry him at this point. He’s lucky he’s tiny. He’ll lean forward to ask to be set down, then he’ll either sniff something or amble so very slowly along the path. He is the worst hiker.
He sounds like a pretty awesome dude. Thanks for sharing. Also sounds like he has you pretty well trained, he gets to ride and sniff.
We don’t have a small dog right now, our elderly Chihuahua reached the end a couple years ago and my wife is still raw.
I don’t do the accent with names. It reminds me of when people say croissant with a French accent or “Mehico” instead of Mexico - I get those are the pronunciations if you’re speaking French or Spanish, but IMO the rest of the sentence is English so just use the English accent / pronunciation.
“So we are going to take our chicken and add a big pinch of MoOoOtZAdeLL” - Giada DeLaurentis
Accent is not pronunciation, I try to get as close as possible as the originally intended pronunciation the person cast of their name, not mimic the stereotypical changes in the common sounds the person makes on the transcribed text of their name… I believe there is a difference
This. Forget about accent. Try to pronounce their name as close as you can to how they said it themselves. That’s what matters.
No. Even if it’s foreign, I don’t put on an accent. I Anglicise the name.
I have also a sinicised version of my name for the Chinese. I even introduce myself with it. I don’t expect any foreigner to use my English name.
I think the risk of that approach is that if you attempt to copy their accent too literally it can sound like mockery, especially if you are clumsy in your imitation. Like you’re breaking out of your own accent on purpose because you think their name spoken in their accent sounds silly, and by repeating it in an exaggerated way you’re demonstrating how silly it sounds to you, and that kind of response can be interpreted as mocking or sarcastic.
I think it’s safer if you try to strike at most a middle-ground between your own accent and their pronunciation, use it as guidance for the sounds but still keep it clearly in your own voice. When somebody has an accent I expect my name to be spoken at least to some degree in that same accent, so it’s not going to need to be an exact facsimile of the sounds I made.
That’s my thoughts anyway, as a native English speaker.
My name is unpronounceable for most non-native French speakers. I tell them to not even try, as there are sounds in French that don’t exist in English. Instead, I introduce myself by butchering my own name, or by using the English equivalent to my name.
So, no, I don’t think people should use an accent of the origin language of a name. You can try, and I’ll even rate you on a scale of 10, but I don’t expect you to not butcher my name anyway.
Renault Peugeot Rumplestiltzkin
You got any friends with a similar example name in French? Unless your name is Écureuil, I’m thinking it can’t be that bad.
“Moi, je déteste l’écureuil.” was my practice sentence to master that one and sometimes I’m still nervous to use it in the wild lol.
I’m told “écureuil” is an infamously hard word for non-natives. It’s funny that one of the hardest words to pronounce in English in my opinion is “squirrel”. At least for a beginner.
To answer your question, I was thinking about words with nasal vowels, which are non-existent in English.
“Enfant”, “informatique”, “un brin brun”
My own first name has a nasal vowel and in my experience talking to native English speakers, it’s seems like a challenge to them.
Interestingly I don’t find the nasal vowels hard at all. In Écureuil (and other words that give me problems) it’s the “u” that is the hard part. It’s projected to a funny place in the mouth for me.
If I don’t pay attention it naturally wants to sound like the “ou” in 12 which my wife gives me shit for :).
Yes you’re right, I bet the French “u” is strange for an anglophone!
The sound I have the most trouble with in English is “th”. When I try it it kind of defaults to a “d”. In France they usually pronounce it like a “z” instead.
“Crypto,” I say in a bad French accent.
Nice try, Cuthulu
Ph’nglui mglw’nafh Cthulhu R’lyeh wgah’nagl fhtagn
Yes
Ooh same! It makes me cringe when someone tries to say my name really well, even if I know they mean well, I can’t help it, it’s my French genes!
So want to know your name. Bet money my American ass could pronounce it perfectly.
lol, I tell em to use my first name
there are sounds in French that don’t exist in English
LOL no. I was perfectly fluent in French when in high school and college. I imitated by best teacher, little man from Arkansas that spoke English like a squirrel. When he visited France, they didn’t believe he was an American tourist.
Great argument.
I don’t think English has any nasal vowels.
The ‘u’ is also non-existent
It’s a good question. I always wonder the same thing about the US vs UK versions of Craig and Graham.
US - “kregg”, “gram”
UK - “krayg”, “gray-um”
Ugh all these American pronunciations are making me feel very stupid. I’m saying kregg out loud and then Crayg and they sound exactly the same.
There’s probably regional differences, like a lot of pronunciations in America. I’m American and the way I say “Craig” is closer to “krayg” than it is to “kregg”.
how do you pronounce “egg” then?
For me, they are like saying “bread” and “braid” 😁
I saw something about this the other day, but I forget exactly where. They spoke about two famous people, both with given name “Craig” where one was British and the other American. They said that they would deliberately pronounce the name differently for each person in order to reflect that person’s preferred pronunciation.
Approximating that within your own accent wasn’t mentioned, but I assume that would be acceptable.
Another one that springs to mind is the name “Colin”. There was that well-known US politician who insisted that his name was to be pronounced with a long ‘o’ not a short one, which deviated even from the standard US pronunciation.
If I remember correctly, he insisted that if it was to be pronounced the other way, it should have had two L’s in it. Makes me wonder how he spelled/pronounced travel(l)ing.
Just pronounce it as it’s supposed to be pronounced according to it’s written form
