Any kind of freedom ends were you are violating the freedom of someone else. Spitting hatred against women and minorities has nothing to do with freedom of speech.
Saying hateful, dumbass shit doesn’t violate anyone’s freedom. Denying them their right to congregate, get equal service in business, have bodily autonomy, etc. does. However, speech alone is not enough to equate to action, in most cases.
That depends entirely on your definition of freedom.
If someone were to punch me, it would violate my freedom from being punched/ bodily harm.
This is illegal in the US.
If someone were to insult me, it would violate my freedom from being insulted (maybe psychological harm).
This is legal in the US but illegal elsewhere.
speech alone is not enough to equate to action
Speech is not something that happens to you, it’s something you actively do. It is always an action.
As much as I dislike people spitting hatred at women, LGBTQIA+ folks, and POCs, this is still freedom of speech. You don’t have to enjoy it, you don’t have to listen to it, and you’re certainly free to remove these people from your personally owned spaces. But it doesn’t change the fact that people should be allowed to say whatever the fuck they want, otherwise we literally are punishing people for thought crimes and edgy jokes.
People should be judged for their actions, not their words. Words don’t actually mean anything without action behind them.
I’m a gay man, and I’ve definitely given out the occasional f slur pass. Why? Because I honestly think it’s funny as fuck when my best friend of 20 years calls me that. He doesn’t hate me, he knows and loves my partner like a sibling, and he is my brother. It would be so fucked if he got in some kind of actual trouble for that…
The dangerous thing with speech is the ability to radicalize people. I mostly agree with your comment but it’s a more complex topic than “until you don’t do something bad you’re fine”.
I think their point is that you don’t throw them in prison just for saying it. If they actually do it or influence others to do it then that’s very different. I always try to think how a law could be twisted or abused, and once you make simply saying something illegal that opens the door to a lot of authoritarianism.
That’s fundamentally not the same thing, don’t be obtuse for the sake of debate points.
Insults and general demeaning comments should not be punished in the court of law. Saying offensive things should not be punished in the court of law.
As I said before, the action/intent is the part that should be punished. Providing private information about someone who you disagree with or want to incur harm upon is an action with malicious intent.
As a leftist, I fail to understand why we always jump to tone policing and purity politics? We can identify the material conditions that cause radicalization and general bigotry and act upon these things, but we always just jump to punishing people for being radical bigots, which only further galvanizes those positions.
We’re not making these spaces smaller, we’re making them more volatile by doing this. They see these conversations and think “this is why we have to remove leftism, because they will punish us for crimes we have yet to do” and that’s precisely what this argument is.
Well I’m holding you in contempt in court for making a joke that I didn’t agree with. I hope you’re ready to pay a huge fine, because this is an open and shut case.
Why does your freedom of speech cover insulting me? It doesn’t make any sense? Instead of me having to remove myself from public spaces to not get insulted, the people insulting in public spaces should be removed???
Oh wow now you really showed me. I have the right to bear arms so I will arm myself with a nuclear bomb. When anyone steps on my property lawn I will detonate it.
Any kind of freedom ends were you are violating the freedom of someone else. Spitting hatred against women and minorities has nothing to do with freedom of speech.
If someone comes after my hatred of Nazis… I stg
Saying hateful, dumbass shit doesn’t violate anyone’s freedom. Denying them their right to congregate, get equal service in business, have bodily autonomy, etc. does. However, speech alone is not enough to equate to action, in most cases.
That depends entirely on your definition of freedom.
If someone were to punch me, it would violate my freedom from being punched/ bodily harm.
This is illegal in the US.
If someone were to insult me, it would violate my freedom from being insulted (maybe psychological harm).
This is legal in the US but illegal elsewhere.
Speech is not something that happens to you, it’s something you actively do. It is always an action.
As much as I dislike people spitting hatred at women, LGBTQIA+ folks, and POCs, this is still freedom of speech. You don’t have to enjoy it, you don’t have to listen to it, and you’re certainly free to remove these people from your personally owned spaces. But it doesn’t change the fact that people should be allowed to say whatever the fuck they want, otherwise we literally are punishing people for thought crimes and edgy jokes.
People should be judged for their actions, not their words. Words don’t actually mean anything without action behind them.
I’m a gay man, and I’ve definitely given out the occasional f slur pass. Why? Because I honestly think it’s funny as fuck when my best friend of 20 years calls me that. He doesn’t hate me, he knows and loves my partner like a sibling, and he is my brother. It would be so fucked if he got in some kind of actual trouble for that…
The dangerous thing with speech is the ability to radicalize people. I mostly agree with your comment but it’s a more complex topic than “until you don’t do something bad you’re fine”.
So if someone says “let’s kill all women, gays and jews” that’s totally fine for you?
I think their point is that you don’t throw them in prison just for saying it. If they actually do it or influence others to do it then that’s very different. I always try to think how a law could be twisted or abused, and once you make simply saying something illegal that opens the door to a lot of authoritarianism.
Something being illegal does not automatically mean prison. In most developed countries prison is a last resort
til am allowed to say personal information
That’s fundamentally not the same thing, don’t be obtuse for the sake of debate points.
Insults and general demeaning comments should not be punished in the court of law. Saying offensive things should not be punished in the court of law.
As I said before, the action/intent is the part that should be punished. Providing private information about someone who you disagree with or want to incur harm upon is an action with malicious intent.
As a leftist, I fail to understand why we always jump to tone policing and purity politics? We can identify the material conditions that cause radicalization and general bigotry and act upon these things, but we always just jump to punishing people for being radical bigots, which only further galvanizes those positions.
We’re not making these spaces smaller, we’re making them more volatile by doing this. They see these conversations and think “this is why we have to remove leftism, because they will punish us for crimes we have yet to do” and that’s precisely what this argument is.
was joke ._.
Well I’m holding you in contempt in court for making a joke that I didn’t agree with. I hope you’re ready to pay a huge fine, because this is an open and shut case.
because private company is same as government
._.
Why does your freedom of speech cover insulting me? It doesn’t make any sense? Instead of me having to remove myself from public spaces to not get insulted, the people insulting in public spaces should be removed???
Get over it Karen. Fucking baby.
Oh wow now you really showed me. I have the right to bear arms so I will arm myself with a nuclear bomb. When anyone steps on my property lawn I will detonate it.
Get a grip troll.
Wut