cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ca/post/3337820
cross-posted from: https://kbin.social/m/PCGaming/t/341789
This video is not monetized. This video covers our serious concerns regarding the data accuracy of Linus Media Group, including Linus Tech Tips, ShortCircuit, and TechQuickie, particularly as it relates to rushing content out the door to favor – by staff’s own admission – quantity over quality. As the company continues to expand into its LTT Labs direction, the importance of accurate data increases; however, even as ‘only’ entertainment, there are still certain responsibilities to the consumer and the manufacturers to report fairly (and to have defined corrections processes in place). We tried to approach this as objectively as possible and hope that viewers are able to listen to the evidence we present, particularly as it relates to significant and frequent data errors that now present in nearly every technical review video.
It is the slow boiling frog story. Linus would have called out himself some years ago for this, but now he does not have time for that. They have to pump content to keep it rolling and get more equipment; they cannot stop now. They could not see this as an issue because they have slowly transitioned to this, but they are now locked into this rhythm. Hopefully, they can pivot out of this, and hopefully, they hiring of a new CEO was special because they already saw this problem.
There’s a big part of this that’s just his ego though. The self-imposed release schedule is bad, but ultimately his inability to truly admit he was wrong is what will ultimately undo the company.
I was enthusiastic about LTT Labs - there are many areas that reviewers can’t explore because of the complicated and expensive testing setups required, such as objective measurements on whether a phone has a good antenna or not. But at this point I’m not sure how we would ever be able to trust what they produce.
That’s my big worry. The company is now too big and too expensive to slow down. There’s a real possibility that this mess results in mass layoffs at LMG, either because public backlash kills their profitability or they accept how screwed up they are and slow down and take some time to fix things and this results in a drop in output that means they can no longer afford their current scale. I don’t know how much runway they have. And in that scenario it’s the most vulnerable employees and not the problem-people in leadership who’d be facing the music, which is awful.
Like I said in a Beehaw comment about the video, LMG needs to vastly improve their Quality Assurance process if they want their new “Labs” initiative to hold weight. I’ve watched LTT with friends more for the entertainment and taken the data with a grain of salt.
It’s clear they need to slow down to review more carefully, whether that’s by lengthening release rate and schedules, or by hiring more staff to spread out across projects.
Steve and Gamers Nexus were just putting together what the community already told Linus and co. Linus and his staff were clearly well aware that there is intense pressure to release on timelines that don’t allow for proper checking at filming time and allow mistakes to pass through. This is from their own LMG produced videos, not taken substantially out of context.
So from the above I don’t buy Linus’ claims that Steve could or should have discussed this privately or anything. Steve is only bringing it up in this way because they have, to some extent, been wilfully ignoring these issues that are right in front of them and a chat with GN likely wouldn’t have changed that. Why? My reasoning is recommendations to slow down the rate of release aren’t good for business.
I’ve always appreciated GN’s methodology and they pride themselves on holding a high ethical standard for their technical reviews. Not everyone can easily reach that same standard but the onus is on LMG to show that their tests are trustworthy and that starts with diligent, researched information, testing and good Quality Control.
(I won’t touch on the Billet issue besides LMG fucked up on that and Linus needs to work that out with Billet directly and apologize).
The Billet Labs incident crossed the line. That’s not something you can just apologize or pay your way out of.
Well clearly you can, because they sent LMG an invoice for it.
A) LMG stated that they reached out first to offer financial compensation.
B) LMG may have destroyed this company. Ask your self how much having your passion project destroyed is worth.
C) It’s not about the money but the attitude. LMG is giving off “I’m paying you to fuck off” vibes. This should have never happened. LMG should be tearing them selves apart to ensure this never happens again. Not giving some half assed excuses.and D) Linus’ post basically said “this is just a random fluke, and we dont need to take further precautions to ensure it doesnt happen again”
Can he not be an asshole for five minutes?
He’s a quick one to get himself into a bind.
i found LTT’s new response excellent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cTpTMl8kFY
It includes taking a week to go through their internal process and clean every thing up. Linus proper is only at the end, with the new CEO and Yvonna talking about it from the get go.
In his forum post he commented somewhere in the thread that billet sent them a quote and they paid in full - so at least that part should be resolved. Still a massive fuckup though.
According to the new video that’s a lie, and they didn’t reach out at all until after this video was posted, they made an offer but billet has not yet responded to it or accepted it.
Nah in the forum post he said they haven’t paid BL anything yet.
You gotta work on your reading comprehension my man. Linus explicitly said they had not paid anything yet.
LTT has always seemed like a profit driven channel. No real reviews. MKBHD is 50/50
Are there such thing as non-profit driven review channels?
You can try to make a profit without if being your main focus I guess. There are the channels which review and take all the free samples they get and try to pump out a review on time no matter the quality to generate as many views as possible.
And then there are a few review channels who will put out their review when it is ready and good. Who will give away review copies if allowed. Those reviewers would call out shit even if it means being locked out of review copies next time. Which of course means less profit. There are even review channels which do not do sponsored ad segments. Instead they’d be relying on viewer support. But there aren’t many of those.
LTT marketing themselves as a Canadian company/channel but using only US prices and availability was always a red flag for me.
If you operate any sort of international business (LTT store products are made in China) the US dollar is the currency you use. Their costs are all in USD so if they used CAD for pricing they would just be constantly jumping around with the exchange rate to make sure margins stayed constant.
I’m talking about for videos along the lines of “$500 build guide” not for their merch.
The logic still applies. If you price something in CAD for a US or international audience, you might as well price it in beans because nobody’s going to have any idea how much it costs. Think of LTT as an Canadian exporter of video content.
Thinking of it that way makes sense, but it doesn’t change the fact that they were (idk if they still are, stopped watching years ago) advertising themselves as Canadian content creators, with a fair bit of emphasis on being Canadian. As far as I could tell they were trying to appeal to Canadians by pushing that angle, however their videos used US pricing and availability which may as well have been in beans because it means nothing to me.
Canada is tiny. They probably receive only 5% of their views from their home country.
They should still have a Canadian price storefront
Why? It’s a business and they go where the money is. I don’t mind LTT thinking like a business - everybody’s gotta eat. But the screw-ups with Billet aren’t okay and the incredibly hostile workplace described on Xitter is beyond the pale.
Didn’t he even make a video where he talked about he wants to stop pushing expensive shit to people, but then he didn’t because he’s just a money hungry twat? I never got the appeal and found him beyond annoying. So this is just great bews, maybe his videos will stop showing up everywhere.
Mkbhd gets paid for nearly everything on his channel but he also doesn’t tell you to go out and buy or not buy shit based on lies
Every large channel, and most small channels that aren’t explicitly charities, are profit-driven. I’d actually say being visibly profit-driven is usually a good sign because it means you know where their money comes from. What’s worse is when you don’t know who’s funding them – that’s when you get paid misinformation peddlers.
Media is a business. If you’re not their paying customer, you’re the product. That’s why stuff like Patreon and LTT’s paid merch is a good thing.
The real problems are that the company runs in an extremely, dangerously unprofessional way - well beyond normal startup mayhem. Combine that with the break-neck pace they try to put out content, and the fact that Linus himself has an ego the size of Cleveland, and it means that they’re a danger to themselves and others. And Linus taking every problem personally means the company can’t change properly. He needs to take a leave of absence and bring in some dispassionate experts fix things at his company, and when he comes back he’s just another employee who does things by the book and lets the CEO run things under the new model until he learns the ropes.
But I worry that the company is screwed regardless - they might not be able to come back from this, and even if they can the loss of revenue might exceed their operating costs and runway. For Linus himself and the rest of the leadership? Good. That’s appropriate comeuppance. But it’s a big group, and that will probably mean layoffs, and I feel bad for the people at the bottom who’ll be hit by the shit rolling downhill.
I’ve been watching his channel since ~ the Langley house days. But the video where they painted a PC black and basically immersed a GPU in paint until they killed it was the day I realized that they were more concerned about pumping out videos than content itself.
The days of me wading through bad videos to find one high quality video are long over. I miss the older days when they focused on quality, 30+ minute videos and guides.
One thing i noticed is when they review a really shitty product but don’t bash it??? Like you guys said you would but you’re just beating around the bush. It’s either a good product or not. No need for the run around guys. Take for example shortcircuit i believe was the channel they had a shitty expensive leather mouse but the person reviewing it was clearly not giving his honest opinion. The mouse was shit plain and simple.
ok speak from your ass much, they did not beat around that bush with the leather mouse. they said it was all looks and no substance. they stated the tracker was shit and everything about it was cheap except the pricetag.
I just rewatched the video just to see if your the one that’s actually speaking from your ass and… They did in fact beat around the bush. Drop the fanboy tactics and open your eyes my guy.
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Wow. I always thought Linus was a good guy (haven’t really watched his channel properly in years) but I’m sad to learn that he’s now also a piece of shit!
EDIT: Fuck all of you pricks that downvoted me; I was right after all, Linus really is a fucking piece of shit - full thread here
I’m not sure I would go that far. I largely agree with the GN video, but I would not call Linus a piece of shit. There are a number of things I disagree with Linus about on a fundamental level, but he is still just a slightly awkward nerd with methed up squirrel energy at the end of the day. As Steve notes in the video he is basically responsible for the livelihood of 120 people, I’m sure that puts a little bit of stress on a person. That being said it doesn’t absolve him of what has been happening, and his current path seems deeply misguided.
He’s replied in his forums and has basically doubled down. It would have been different if he took some responsibility.
Oh I’m aware. He has always struck me as very quick to react and slow to introspect (which is kinda inline with not having time to look back like was said in his team’s video). I definitely have issues with some of his philosophies, but on a scale from regular person to Hollywood CEO he doesn’t strike me as actively malicious, just misguided.
Just my $0.02. I understand where you are coming from, just figured I’d proffer another perspective for the sake of discussion.
You raise good points and I would agree with you if not for the Billet Labs situation - here is a link to another comment explaining what went down.
Yeah that’s not OK.
I get the impression that Linus is in over his head and reacting in a very emotional way. Kinda reminds me of the channel hack a few months ago, both Yvonne and Luke were literally telling him what was going on and what needed to happen, and his tunnel vision just would not allow him to hear them.
That’s not an excuse. I think there is/should be a price to be paid. In most things I tend to lean towards rehabilitation with a chance for change, rather than retribution and and destruction. It’s a crap situation and I’m disappointed but not surprised.
I take that back. Linus is a bigger piece of fucking shit than I thought - full thread here
I just saw that a short while ago.
LTT also just posted a video, that kinda reinforces what I was saying before. Linus is very emotionally driven and quite obviously blinded by it. I do think people should both be held accountable AND given the opportunity to learn.
The video was obviously damage control. I still hope something good comes out of all this, but believe it or not I am still pretty cynical about things.
There is a saying I came across when I was quite young that I try to keep in mind when telling my side of any story:
“There are three sides to every story. There is what I said happened. There is what they said happened. There is what actually happened.”
I doubt LTT speaks to Madison’s posts explicitly, but with everything that is happening, I do hope if anyone has experienced something similar that they feel more comfortable and empowered to come forward with their experiences.
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I’m on side there both dicks. Steve/GN make errors too, but we just don’t call him out for it because the GN team are only humans. Yeah Linus has a lot of employees. Yeah they need to work on integrity with their results, maybe adjust hiring practices to include knowledge of the topic they’re writing for. The Billet labs thing, they offered an Invoice, not a lawsuit so they decided their prototype had a price tag. If it was such a big deal, they should have sued LMG, but they didn’t. They also got a shit-ton of publicity at Linus’ expense, seems to me they got paid and free advertising, they won that one. GN needs to follow their own practices regardless of who or what the subject matter is, ALWAYS give the offender a chance to speak. What GN did is basically a hit piece. Kinda funny that only Gamers Nexus spoke out, the rest of the YouTube Computers/Electronics scene was totally fine with supporting him and coming to LTX. So either everyone in the industry is a shill or Gamers Nexus are not completely in the right here.
I think you are missing out on the difference. Errors are made and that wasn’t the issue, the issue was not taking the time to properly correct and stop misinformation from spreading (comment not pinned, replacement of videos without notifying of the change, never ever taking down a faulty video). Not doing the right thing should and will have a negative impact on your reputation. If gamer nexus does the same, I would support every other channel that calls them out on that. Billet labs not suing isn’t proof that the way it was handled was acceptable. Billet labs seems to have taken the high road to try and move ahead of what is unacceptable behavior from LMG. I also disagree on the free advertising. Advertising is helpful if you have a product to sell, trashing the reputation by improperly testing simply because LMG cannot be “troubled” to do their job properly is indicative of bad management.
LMG has two choices, either they stop calling themselves a real tech reviewer and go all in the “entertainment” genre or be accountable to be a respectable tech reviewer. GN rightfully pointing that out for no financial gain is what I consider a true friend moment. We all make mistakes, LMG has a rare opportunity to really reflect and decided to correct thanks to the efforts of someone that has the courage to call things out, especially given the clout LMG has in this space.
Steve/GN strikes me as the annoying guy who just waits you for you to make a mistake and then shouts GOTCHA and makes a video exposing why you’re an idiot to the world. There’s just this weird antagonistic tone/vibe I always get from Steve’s video. (IMHO LTT and GN are both great at what they do, and that’s why they’re both successful.)
Edit: this is also a “there’s no such thing as bad publicity” situation. GN makes a 44 minute long video about this (lol) and I’m sure LTT will make at least one reply video. If they go back and forth, it’s just more content and clicks for both of them. Win win.
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Then it sounds like growing as much as they did was a mistake.
LTT is and always has been cringe. Linus is not even very technically knowledgeable, he’s just an entertainer.
In fairness, being an entertainer who makes technical knowledge more accessible is a great thing that should be applauded; there is value in being a communicator rather than an expert… Until you mislead people and fail to maintain a certain level of integrity/credibility. I’m not huge on the idea that we should look down on people for not being the very most technical of experts, but I DO feel we need to hold people accountable when they prioritize profit over integrity
Ok fair. But I think he repeatedly shows himself to be incompetent and his response to being called out strikes me as very narcissistic.
Those two things together = wack
I changed instances but am the same user you responded to.
I think that’s a pretty reasonable perspective to have at this point. Did you see the update gamers nexus did covering linus’s response on his forums? Linus implied some things in an offhanded way about the situation with the startup’s water block, and when gamers nexus checked with the startup, it made the way Linus framed things seems EXTREMELY explicitly dishonest. Honestly the situation seems to be getting worse, not better.
And one of the former ltt employees made a post on twitter explaining she had a horrible experience there and that the company treated her very poorly 🙃
Edit: grabbed the link to the Twitter stuff https://twitter.com/suuuoppp?t=DfjH-C3JIcxmlHQCsVKpVA&s=09 I really liked Madison :( sucks to know she was really mistreated
Yeah I just saw that thread as well. Just cemented the fact that he can’t take criticism, he just plays victim and pushes blame on others.
I’d agree if you were talking about MKBHD but for Linus that’s pushing it a little. Of course he’s a generalist, but he still seems to know a ton of technical stuff.
Sometimes I find it hard to follow when they’re talking about how GPUs, CPUs or memory works on the WAN Show. That’s because I’ve never made the effort to dig hard into these things but he clearly has and seems to know what he’s talking about.
MKBHD on the other hand REALLY doesn’t know any technical stuff, you can feel when you’re listening to their podcast that he doesn’t even find it interesting
Dude mkbhd is a hack.
I can’t remember the exact phone. I think maybe it was the Pixel 5a, but he got a few of the specs completely wrong in the video. The specs that were literally written on the box.
I can’t remember the issue exactly, but I think he said it was glass or plastic but it was the opposite of what he said. Like idk how the hell you can’t tell what the phone is made out of while holding it. Then he said it didn’t have stereo speakers, but it did. Like did you not listen to ANY audio on it?
His videos have always been about the cool factor. He makes nice shots and invests in the presentation.
People like Mr Mobile are the real ones.
When MKBHD broke the samsung galaxy fold phone he was reviewing and had to get a replacement from samsung to finish his review then didnt mention it in his review told me where his priorities lie. He values relationships with manufactures over providing information to consumers. Only after several reviewers posted about having broken the phone by removing a protective screen did he make a video about it where his fans praised him for for how honest he was. Here is the follow up video where he explains how he broke the phone and didn’t mention it in his review https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtqtyyGZvXM
He was in a video by JerryRigEverything about content creators and if they have ever damage their phones and I couldn’t help but think about the review phone he broke when he says that he hasn’t broken a phone in the last 5 years. He was probably talking about just personal phones but I thought it was funny especially when the video has the line “I wonder if any of my friends here on Youtube have ever broken a phone and just not told anyone about it.” in the intro https://youtu.be/3oGJP9FMWAU?t=316
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I agree that MKBHD is also not technically inclined nor seems to be very interested in it.
He’s more interested in the cinematography aspect of YouTube.
Personally I’ve only ever used a couple of his videos as a “first look” at something where I just wanted to see a first glance.
But one example where MKBHD and Linus’ incompetence was shown together was MKBHDs video with Linus showing up, where they built a 140tb Unraid server.
Personally I wouldn’t opt for unraid over just using actual Linux or proxmox, etc. but that’s besides the point.
They used one parity drive for 14 hard drives, then referred to everything as being “backed up”
RAID IS NOT A BACKUP!
Linus, who uses Unraid for his own channel should know this! Any competent tech person, running their own server with data they can’t afford to lose, should know that. Full Stop.
Which it should be no surprise LTT had several occasions of losing data with no backups.
Linus definitely has his blind spots knowledge-wise. When you know a bit about a topic you see it clearly.
GPU’s and especially cooling are his jam.
Each time LTT is in my feed I’m not baited by the title, most of the time it’s meh, and the few time I have watched some of his content something seems off.
Like storage server for Smarter Everyday, cool but where’s the tech part?
