What happened after you left? Do you still have ties with your family? Did people bother you to try and make you come back?
Went to Afghanistan. Saw mutilated kids, kids with no legs from landmines, burned alive, dead ones. No God is watching over anyone. We are all there is.
In the words of Bob:
“Most people think great God will come from the sky Take away ev’rything, and make ev’rybody feel high But if you know what life is worth You would look for yours on earth And now you see the light You stand up for your right”
Everyday, stand up for your right to live in a peaceful world, or be stood upon.
It’s very interesting honestly. I swapped from Catholic to evangelicalism at 14 (just me not my family, tho they supported it) and stuck with it till I was 20. It was super about it. Youth group 2 days a week plus 3 hour mass on Sundays, God was ALWAYS on my mind, every decision, every action, every goal. Then my friends went to college, and I didn’t, I stuck around now forced to interact with the older crowd. They weren’t just hypocrites, they were cruel and controlling and pointlessly manipulative. It became clear that the church I was at wasn’t the place It was for me for years so one day I decided to just stop showing.
It was the first addiction I ever quit. The anxiety I felt was… Immense. It took two weeks for me to start thinking clearly about it, and it was wild how easily I recognized I was literally brainwashed. I no longer needed the mental gymnastics to justify myself.
My life didn’t improve or anything after that, and funnily enough I only ever saw one of my, off to college, friends again, many years later. He did try and get me back in but I was way past that stiff by that point. Surreal experience in hindsight
I was raised Mormon.
I remember chilling in the computer lab at university when I came across someone’s Jehova’s Witness deconversion story online. It was so eerily similar to my experience that I couldn’t stop thinking about it. Because it wasn’t my religion, I was able to see it the way an outsider might see my own.
It broke something inside me irreparably. Faith became a dirty word. All conservative values instantly vanished. I guess this conflict had been beneath the surface for some time but finding that story lit a match.
I mean what kind of religion needs to brainwash its members not to seek out material critical of itself? What kind of religion puts you in a room, alone, as a teenager, with a 50-year-old man who is asking you about your sexual habits? What kind of religion has billions of dollars in real estate investments? What kind of religion requires you to ring people’s doorbells and pester them about your religion? What kind of religion asks you to (despite how they phrase it) hate gay people?
I stopped having anything to do with the church after that. When it comes to integrity, I can’t pretend. I was able to hold my ground against all the creepy shit that happens when you leave a cult. And now, 20+ years later, I rarely even think about it.
Former Mormon here too. For me it was the news about the SEC fines. The church breaking the law to hide from the government and it’s members just how much money they actually have. For decades too. The reason they didn’t want people to know? Because they’d have ideas on how it should be spent. Yes, I think the hundreds of billions of dollars should be spent feeding and clothing the poor and homeless. Ya know, like that Jesus guy said, like a lot. But no, they say they need it for the 2nd coming. Cuz, Jesus is gonna need a large diversivied stock portfolio.
Since then everything else fell apart. I saw the insane number of lawsuits suing the church for covering up sexual abuse, and the church defending the abusers, not the victims. Now all I can see is a bunch of terrified, greedy old men clutching to power and lying to try to stop their members leaving in droves.
It’s such a shame too because there are genuine positives, especially as a kid. The frequent scout trips were amazing for learning practical skills and having fun. I never lacked for good role models or friends and adults would gladly mentor you if you expressed an interest in something. It really felt like a community. I haven’t found anything like that since.
What kind of religion puts you in a room, alone, as a teenager, with a 50-year-old man who is asking you about your sexual habits? What kind of religion has billions of dollars in real estate investments?
Turns out that’s pretty much all of them.
What kind of religion requires you to ring people’s doorbells and pester them about your religion?
Honestly, I weirdly respect this. The JWs/Mormons at least take their obligations from 1 peter 3:15 seriously. The vast majority of Christian denominations just kind of ignore that one.
Turns out you kinda have to ignore most of what God tells you to do, just so you don’t end up in jail. But I do respect that they’re actually more of the Bible seriously. The outcomes are worse, but they DO stand for what they believe.
I just wish they put all that dedication into something like doctors without borders or something.
The vast majority of Christian denominations just kind of ignore that one.
And thank god for that.
Oh yeah, fewer people ringing my doorbell is always better.
Indeed!
Though my doorbell is unplugged anyway lol
Turns out that’s pretty much all of them.
The evangelical / nondenominational churches are honestly the ones I like best in that regard, with owning land/businesses. They are almost never some weird real estate owning corporation behind the scenes, just a collection of locals who pooled money and built a church. I don’t agree with their religion or beliefs, but that’s different.
Good for you. Sincerely.
What made me do it was the unending stream of contradictions in the bible internally, between the Bible and reality, and between the Bible and what people say is in the bible in order to fix the other two.
It’s the old “nobody could show me why I should believe any of it”, including me. And the more I looked for answers, the more problems and contradictions I found.
I have plenty of contact with my family, my parents are both great people and it helps a lot that they’re not so much religious as that they think “its important”. My more extended family has made a few tries, I occasionally get into discussions with a few aunts, uncles and cousins, but they’re not exactly good at it. It’s just looping around the same old terrible arguments that quickly end when I ask them to show that it was Jahweh who created the universe, and not Bob.
The church made the biggest effort to get me back, but they have a financial incentive, unlike everyone else. It was an incredible pain in the ass to get removed from church rolls before GDPR.
and also the annoying “actually” constantly tyring to correct media potrayal of christians/christainity too nobody likes nagging karen for christianity.
For me it was the fundamental contradiction between God being both good & all powerful. If (S)he created everybody exactly the way they are, how are they to condemn anyone to hell? Some people are born incapable of communicating or understanding anything, some people are born with their wires crossed and are just evil, some are born in a time/place where they never hear “the good news”. Why would a good and loving God condemn them forever for being exactly what (S)he designed them to be?
The Christian Bible I grew up with was rife with examples of people God created and designed specifically to be antagonists so they could be punished: Cain, Pharoah, Ahab & Jezebel, Judas Iscariot, Ananias & Sapphira, The Beast & Antichrist, etc.
Why would a good and loving God condemn them forever for being exactly what (S)he designed them to be?
This is it exactly. Why even have a “chosen people” in the Israelites during the Old Testament? Why create those other people at all? Just to give random people for the Israelites to genocide like they did the Midianites/Canaanites/Hittites/10 other -ites?
And what of the world before Noah? God realizes he messed up and needs to cull all but a small handful of humans? I thought God was supposed to be unerring. Same for Sodom and Gomorrah, why allow cities to become dens of sin? Or why fear the hubris of humanity constructing the Tower of Babel (or create them with motivation to do so in the first place) if divinity remains safely unreachable to mortals?
Just way too much that doesn’t make sense.
God doesnt condemn you to Hell its you you have a choice walk the narrow path or the wide, easy one all of us are sinners, due to Adam and Eve eating the apple.
and I could argue the same for history Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pol Pot, Kim Il Sung
Pharoah had multiple chances to let the Israelites go, yet he didnt Cain chose to kill Abel Judas chose the silver coins The brast isnt a human, and he was created by God but pride corrupted him
A) you don’t have a choice. Christianity teaches that our lives are deterministic, God chose who will and won’t make it into heaven. If he decided to design you to be a sinner who won’t accept him then that’s your fate.
B) Pharoah never had a chance. It wasn’t himself or the devil who made him reject God, the Bible itself that God hardened his heart and made him act the way he did. Same with Judas, he was chosen to fulfill prophesy. Sure, a different follower could have betrayed him, but it had to be someone because God decided that someone had to take the fall. He wasn’t even able to repent afterwards, even though he tried.
C) Almost everyone ever born won’t make it to heaven according to Christianity. Many are called but few are chosen—as you mentioned narrow is the path according to scripture. It also states that “many” (interpreted majority of) Christians will stand before him in judgment and be rejected because they didn’t believe in him the right way. Performing miracles and healing the sick isn’t enough if you weren’t the right denomination with the right version of the Bible.
D) the beast and antichrist are both human, one a politician and one a religious leader who team up to deceive the world
A. God made us rational beings, but our minds cannot comprehend omnipotence fully
B. Judas couldve repented, but he just committed suicide
C. Many are called, but few will respond. Many “christians” will claim to have followed Christ, but didnt. And the Bibles translations are based on literalness and how its said
for example “Libera nos a malo, Domine” can be translated as “Save us from evil, Lord” and “Please save us from Evil, Lord”
D. I thought by beast you meant Satan
I used to be super religious. I even studied to be a priest. Married a super religious lady. Then like five guys I went to seminary were in jail for pedos. Last one hit too close. It devastated my faith. Then my wife cheated on me. We had a lot of catholic friends. When she got pregnant they threw a party for her and turned their back on me. That was enough of that. I’m now an Atheist. Christianity is a cult. Not just one denomination. All are cults. Fuck that.
People have been vocal about me being an atheist. My health is not well. Talked to my mom about death. Pretty much she told me she would give me a catholic funeral even if I don’t want it.
One thing I can tell you. Women all are looking for that good Christian man. So I’ve been single since the. I had a fling with someone after the divorce but I think that was a mistake.
Still not over my piece of shit wife. Catholic friends refer to her as my wife. Not my ex. Married for ever thing.
Honestly I miss going to church and involved with everything. But never going back to that. Amen
I hope you can make peace with all that stuff man, being pushed out of a community you can’t actually escape is true pain
Raised catholic, did religious ed, catholic high school, made to go to church every week and on holy days of obligation. Then I went off to college, and dutifully got up the first sunday and went to church. While I was mumbling along with the Nicene creed, I thought, “But I don’t believe this stuff; in fact, I disagree with most of it.” I left quietly before the creed was over, and never voluntarily went back. I guess realizing I’m an atheist helped. 😄
I was already really good at not believing in literally every other religion around the world, so I asked myself what made the religion that I was raised in any different?
How did I know I was lucky enough to be born into the right faith? If I had been born elsewhere, wouldn’t I just feel the same way about whatever religion is worshipped there? And so is that the infidel’s fault that they were just born in the wrong place, with no one to tell them that they had it wrong? Or perhaps would they think the same about me?
And so if our religion truly was the right one, why didn’t our supposedly omnipotent deity just make everyone else born into societies that worship it, or render infertile anyone who didn’t? Or if someone else’s religion was the right one, with a similarly omnipotent deity (or deities), why was I born here?
It did help very much that the biggest part of my sociale life was outside the church. In fact i was slowly drifting away
I actually read The Bible when i was a kid. That is what got me off of religion. That book is all kinds of fucked up, if you actually read it.
The more I travelled as an adult and reflected on what I’d learned about Jesus, the more i began to believe he was actually Buddhist.
Now, I believe the person we call “Jesus” was actually Caesarion…the son of Julius Caesar and Cleopatra.
Oh man that is riveting. Tell me more.
Now, I believe the person we call “Jesus” was actually Caesarion…the son of Julius Caesar and Cleopatra
Wha…?
Sudden realization it was all bullshit and I’d rather sleep in on Sundays. I was 7 or 8.
I was never religious, but at around that age I remember confirming/asking if Santa wasn’t real, and then immediately following up with: “And god isn’t real either, right?”
Thankfully, I have atheist parents so I got a straight answer.
As in computer programming, the laziest are the smartest (or maybe the smartest are just the laziest).
Raised protestant Christian. What made me leave the religion: 1. debating a militant atheist who asked questions I couldn’t answer 2. textual criticism and apologetics classes I took during my biblical studies course 3. intellectual curiosity. that sounds conceited but you do have to have some form of it to question everything you have been taught up until then.
what happened next is not very exciting. I worked up the courage to tell my mom and the church, stopped attending church services, and had a second puberty of sorts (many such cases!). I’m on good terms with everyone in my family, they respect my position and I respect theirs. No coercion of any kind.
I’d call myself agnostic today. I don’t 100% with absolute certainty rule out the possibility that there might be a higher power after all, but I live my daily life as if there isn’t any.
What kind of questions did the militant athiest ask that you couldn’t answer
Hopefully something terribly comedic, like: could god make his vagina so small that he couldn’t make a penis small enough to enter it?
I think yes
I was 10 (IIRC) when I though:
- God knows the future.
- Therefore God knows that Adam and Eve would eat the forbidden fruit.
- Therefore God is either a liar and doesn’t see the future or a bastard that knew exactly what would they do and wanted to punish them.
- In either case, why worship it?
And the next step was understanding that it was a fictional character.
Adding to all those, another realization I had during mine was that if a god was real and that god created the universe and all things and all the rules then they could have also set up the rules in any way they wanted. And they chose the system where they had to murder their own son and eternally torture anyone who didn’t do a certain thing or believe a certain thing, but also created people that physically couldn’t ever do those things due to where they were, their abilities, the luck of who might teach them or not, etc. etc.
That’s a wild set of tangled, complicated, cruel and utterly deranged and sadistic set of rules and punishments if you could literally create anything and any system you wanted.
If I was to design a board game and I made the rules where if you don’t do exactly what I want I get to torture you forever and everyone starts with random skills and items and 90% of the people that play don’t get to hear the rules first or even know there are rules and there are also thousands of alternate rules books and people saying their game is the correct real one and saying you have to do their rules, but you have no way of knowing which is real or not. If I did that I’d be ridiculed and mocked and no one would ever buy my game.
Parts of the Epicurean paradox. This is what also drove me from christianity.
It was a fucking struggle to leave, let me tell you.
I suddenly suffered from a crippling disease (made worse because I was 10 and generally healthy before that, so it was mind boggling at the time), and no one in the church gave a hoot. You’d think a community of people who believed in a loving god would care that such a god would randomly punish a kid… so when everyone just told me to accept it I understandably grew pissed. That then blossomed into asking questions about others with diseases, famine, war, death, bla bla bla, and every answer was just stupid.
Buuut, I was in a super religious family, and went to a religious school, and was a part of a very community focused church, so it took until I left at the age of majority to really leave religion behind. I argued with every single dumb christian I could find for my teenage years, because I wanted to find someone who actually had a good argument. Humorously enough, the best argument ever made to me was by someone who didn’t even care about christianity except that he ‘was’ one by dint of other people being christians: maybe it was necessary for god to send people to hell and have a shitty life… except obviously that’s a shitty god that I wouldn’t care to worship, so finally in college I said good-fucking-bye to the entire mindset.
As for what happened, while I was still under the parents’ control and the school’s control, I was labeled as a troublemaker and generally ostracized. My mother would wail (reasonably) about the situation, but stopped making me go to church as I entered high school. The extended family that still cared about religion just chalked it up to attention seeking and ignored it, which was fine by both parties.
Pastor’s son. Almost became a pastor, too. “Led my first person to Jesus” door-to-door around 7 years old. It was an adult man, I walked him through the “Romans Road” and the prayer for salvation.
It took mushrooms kicking my ass in Amsterdam to finally shake it all.
