• Arcanepotato@crazypeople.online
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    2 days ago

    What am I missing about the comments here? It’s a satirical cartoon, so it’s not meant to be taken as these labels are what the author would apply to each group.

    I read it as highlighting the hypocrisy of how Ukraine fighting Russia is self defence but Palestine fighting Israel is seen as terrorism.

    Is this a controversial take?

    • Infamousblt [any]@hexbear.net
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      2 days ago

      Is this a controversial take?

      In some countries like the UK and Germany not only is this a controversial take, it is an illegal take

    • That is the correct reading of it, yes. But I think at least most of the comments so far recognize this? And most of them so far seem to be in agreement with the artist of the cartoon that it is an absurd double standard, the only one that seems to be an obvious exception is the one who was shocked that it was getting upvotes. But I may be seeing a different set of comments than what you are because of how federation works, so like I am blissfully unaware of comments made by .world users for example.

      Unironically, one possible point of confusion may be the label of “TV” which is a little old school, where a more general “media” or something might work better this day and age.

    • NewDark@lemmy.today
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      2 days ago

      You’ve got it. Ukraine is a little less black and white than Israel Palestine, so you’ll see some comments that are anti Ukraine.

      • Infamousblt [any]@hexbear.net
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        2 days ago

        It’s similarly black and white (although the scale of genocide that is happening to Palestinians is on a completely different level of course) if one understands history. Ukraine is full of Nazis. Russia is killing them. Is Russia a good country? No, definitely not and they should be condemned for all the bad shit they do. But everyone should be in favor of Nazis getting murked. And then we’ll get folks like “well Ukraine isn’t Nazis” to which I respond “then why do they all have Nazi patches.” And then one would respond “those are historical patches.” To which I would reply “from what history.” Then we always hear “well when they were fighting the communists.” The obvious question is “on whose side?” And that’s where folks get angry because they just walked into proving that Ukraine is historically full of Nazis, and thats why they continue to wear Nazi patches. Ukraine could choose to distance themselves from their Nazi history but they don’t. The only explanation for not distancing yourself from your Nazi history and instead leaning into it is because you’re a Nazi.

        Seems pretty cut and dry to me, but I’m not a Nazi so that makes me pretty biased based

        • NewDark@lemmy.today
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          2 days ago

          Oh, so Russia should just exterminate the entire population and take that entire landmass. You’ve painted the entire country with the same broad brush and they obviously deserve it. The hundreds of thousands of people dying on both sides with surly root out the Nazi scurge and not legitimize them as a defensive force. /s in case it wasn’t mega clear.

          You’re correct, there are some Nazis in Ukraine and it’s certainly close to Nato and a possible threat on Russia’s border. It’s complicated. An irridentist invasion and war is not based actually, for everyone involved.

          • Infamousblt [any]@hexbear.net
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            1 day ago

            Russia has never said they plan on genocide, nor have they said they plan on taking the entirety of Ukraine. So you’re just making things up.

            • NewDark@lemmy.today
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              1 day ago

              It’s hyperbolic. What are you willing to accept in the name of “killing Nazis”?

                • NewDark@lemmy.today
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                  1 day ago

                  Assuming every Ukrainian is a Nazi, and every Russian isn’t (which is obviously extreme on both ends, but let’s simplify and take a maximalist position favoring you.)

                  There’s a lot of estimates out there, but taking rough middle estimates, 500k Ukrainian forces have been killed, and 1,250k Russian forces. So you think it is good, logical even, to melt 2.5 non Nazis in favor of killing one? Would you sacrifice your life and a friend or family member to kill one Ukrainian Nazi?

                  • Infamousblt [any]@hexbear.net
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                    1 day ago

                    I haven’t made any of those assumptions or said any of those things, so I’m not sure what imaginary person you’re arguing against

          • Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them]@hexbear.net
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            1 day ago

            Oh, so Russia should just exterminate the entire population and take that entire landmass

            Why do you keep pretending that that is what has been happening?

            An irridentist invasion and war is not based actually, for everyone involved.

            What should a state do when the most prolific invader in the world gathers personnel and weapons on that state’s borders, especially after said most prolific invader completes a coup against a neighbouring neutral state?

            • NewDark@lemmy.today
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              1 day ago

              So, become the invader? Start the war? That seems to be what you think should happen right?

              • Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them]@hexbear.net
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                1 day ago

                Firstly, if you cannot suggest a serious alternative, you do not have an argument against the actions of such a state in this regard.

                Secondly, the most prolific invader in the world attempting to attack a country is what starts a war, rather than the retaliation and preventative measures of the other state.

                Thirdly, it is public knowledge that NATO was trying to start a war with Russia, but miscalculated.

                • NewDark@lemmy.today
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                  1 day ago

                  My serious alternative is defend against invasion, don’t invade other countries. Pre-empting invasion with your own invasion is some Israel in 1969 logic

                  • Tomorrow_Farewell [any, they/them]@hexbear.net
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                    7 hours ago

                    My serious alternative is defend against invasion, don’t invade other countries.

                    That wouldn’t help the opposition to the most prolific invader in the world in any way, and it would allow the aggressor to do whatever they want for longer.
                    Your suggestion doesn’t even help in the best-case scenario where the aggressor loses, as the invaded state still has to go through a counter-offensive over all the same areas, except the aggressor now has more resources to fight with.

                    So, this is not a serious alternative.

                    Pre-empting invasion with your own invasion is some Israel in 1969 logic

                    This is an extremely silly comparison, considering that Pissrael is literally a genocidal settler-colony and is on the side of/is part of the most prolific invader in the world, and is not opposed to it in any way.

          • RiverRock@lemmy.ml
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            2 days ago

            Oh, so Russia should just exterminate the entire population and take that entire landmass.

            When you’re a very serious person with a well- grounded understanding of what other governments want and how wars work.

            Who could forget world War 2, when the entire population of Germany was destroyed?

            • frozenspinach@lemmy.ml
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              4 hours ago

              Who could forget world War 2, when the entire population of Germany was destroyed?

              I can’t think of a more fundamental breakdown in critical thinking than responding to concerns about civilian deaths by splitting hairs about whether 100% of the population was destroyed. Nearly identical to how Israel justifies genocide.

            • NewDark@lemmy.today
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              1 day ago

              It’s hyperbole.

              And famously the Nazis were just chilling out in Germany and they got invaded by another country.

              • RiverRock@lemmy.ml
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                1 day ago

                If it’s hyperbole it sounds exactly like what 5 thousand dipshits have told me sincerely

                And famously the Nazis were just chilling out in Germany and they got invaded by another country.

                Actually they were doing ethnic cleansing, like the Ukranian government was.