He pressed Pelosi on whether the United States has a red line for Israel and whether they “own” the Gaza operation as much as their ally.

“If you don’t like what Israel is doing, and the president has made it clear that some of what Israel is doing he doesn’t like, and you go on supplying them with hardware to do these things you own this operation every bit as much as they do, don’t you?” Sebastian asked the former House Speaker.

  • FlowVoid@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    We don’t know if Israel is impossible to influence, because we don’t know if they were originally planning something different.

    And trying to influence Israel does not necessarily make Biden responsible for what Israel does.

    • agitatedpotato@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      But providing weapons and vetoing ceasefires absolutely makes him responsible. He went out of his way to aide and abed someone whos comitting crimes. Thats responsibility.

      • FlowVoid@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        He provided anti-missile defenses, which makes him responsible for shooting down rockets launched by Hamas. And he provided JDAM kits, which are used to convert dumb bombs (that Israel already owns and is perfectly willing to use) into precision guided bombs.

        Neither of these make him responsible for genocide, if anything they might help to reduce the scale of civilian deaths.

        As for ceasefires: the US vetoed a ceasefire without release of hostages, but then proposed a ceasefire with release of hostages. Israel is much more likely to accept the latter.

        • agitatedpotato@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          Isreal keeps killing its own hostages, I can’t fathom thats whats stopping Netenyahu from agreeing to a ceasfire. And I got bridges for sale for people who do think that.

          • FlowVoid@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            If you think Netanyahu won’t agree to this ceasefire proposal, then he surely wouldn’t have agreed to the prior proposals. And if so, then calling for a ceasefire would have been a waste of time.

            • agitatedpotato@lemmy.world
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              5 months ago

              Pressure is pressure, not abiding a UN resolution is a bad look and allows for further pressure to be put on Israel. Biden has continually kept away Israel away from that pressure while funding them. He’s got his hands dirty. The fact is they’re delaying for time, they don’t care about the hostages, they care about how much time they can use to inflict the maximum amount of suffering on gaza before they’re cast of of international society. Thats it, and Biden is giving them the time and space to do so.

              • FlowVoid@lemmy.world
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                5 months ago

                Uncompromising pressure is exactly the approach taken by Trump and the GOP against Iran, in contrast to the olive branch offered by Obama. It’s also the approach taken by multiple presidents against Cuba and North Korea.

                It’s not an effective way to get a regime to change its behavior. It doesn’t cast countries out of international society, it simply realigns them with countries like China.

                • agitatedpotato@lemmy.world
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                  5 months ago

                  Who said anything about uncompromising? Almost all the member states agreed on it save 2. The two with the most to gain from this conflict. Compromise would be to go with the consensus. Really weird to paint a joint UN resolution as ‘uncompromising pressure’ in line with Trump on Iran, he literally assassinated their top military general. What part of that is like a UN resolution with a majority approval?

                  • FlowVoid@lemmy.world
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                    5 months ago

                    It doesn’t matter what you want to call it. You want to try to isolate Israel, but isolating a country won’t change its behavior. It will change its allies.