A choice remark: “We’re now defending the fact that we’re in Aukus.

“If we weren’t in Aukus, we wouldn’t need to defend it. If we didn’t have an aggressive ally like the United States – aggressive to others in the region – there’d be nobody attacking Australia. We are better left alone than we are being ‘protected’ by an aggressive power like the United States.

“Australia is capable of defending itself.

“There’s no way another state can invade a country like Australia with an armada of ships without it all failing. I mean, Australia is quite capable of defending itself. We don’t need to be basically a pair of shoes hanging out of the Americans’ backside.”

  • Gorgritch_Umie_Killa@aussie.zone
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    3 months ago

    Dammit, typed bigly and lost message.

    I hate it when that happens.

    First, Basque, Catalonia, Scotland et al are independence movements. Taiwan is a functioning democratic nation, (albeit without the recognised status). They have their own separate while related history from mainland China, check the wikipedia on taiwan its got a good a quick run down near the page top. They were a Dutch colony, Japanese, then Chinese, now on their own again and thats only since the 1600’s. Spain and England are also no longer demonstrating bellicose saber ratling language and behaviour, while they still disagree with the respective independence movements; China is demonstrating a distinct intention to take Taiwan, with or without the Taiwanese consent.

    Specific comments on each:

    Basque: I can’t comment too much on Spain’s relationships with Basque and Catalonia. I do know there has been movement to make Catalonia more autonomous, i don’t know if thats the same for Basque but i’d assume the situations are similar. Which means Spain is on the road to a peaceful settlement that works for everyone. Its also notable that the EU’s ease of borders and trade has also helped the Spanish State and the Independence movements live more autonomously but still together.

    Scotland: A referendum was had on the subject before brexit. The order of those looked very strategic, or stupid, at the time by the Cameron government. The UK High court ruled that Westminster has the only legitimate power to hold another referendum.

    Immediately post brexit the Scottish did want out, however the tide has gone out on this subject for now, cost of living pressures, SNP corruption problems, need to vote out Tories, have all added up to send independence down the list of priorities.

    But by far the largest problem now with Scottish independence is how would Scotland and the rest ameliorate the similar effects to Scotland’s and the rests economy’s as brexit is having on the british economy. Scotland is integrated into Britain far more than Britain was/is integrated into the EU. Think roads, trains, defence, finance, postal, and everything else. This now presents a tough question for independence advocates to answer, and preferably there should be a plan before the referendum with it, because as we found out ‘Brexit did not mean brexit’. So independence might still sound good to the Scottish people, so based on the recent brexit experience a sober discussion needs to be had, and a real plan needs to be worked out otherwise its all a pie in the sky rush of blood to the head that could cause people a lot of long-term pain in their lives.

    Indian Muslims: The subcontinent’s story is huge, and there is no answer but to say there is no changes from the ouside that would have a positive effect. Don’t forget Pakistan and Bangladesh are Muslim majority and were part of India. Indian Muslims are far from the only peoples persecuted in the Indian subcontinent. Indian partition was fucked up, and maybe India is better off as smaller principalities as it mainly was before the British.

    I recently listened to this series, its well worth the time and explains that part of their history so much better than i,

    https://open.spotify.com/episode/24liH113yVBe3ccfO7U4Z1?si=nUw26N4bS2q4PxFNf0Js6g

    • NaevaTheRat [she/her]@vegantheoryclub.orgOP
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      3 months ago

      I wrote something in response to zag or zal or whomever. I basically agree that the world is complex and diplomacy and nuance is the way forward. Hence my objections to arming up and tying ourselves to a belligerent, warmongering, and frankly evil empire. I am really busy till mid sept, but will try and remember to listen to that podcast as I know a fair but about india but could always stand to learn more as they are probably the most successful statist democracy in the world and I think a lot of the future depends on what they do as a rising superpower.

      Anyway I wrote some thought vomit in that other comment if curious, and linked a podcast I find very frustrating but informative and a book on australia’s maritime security that I disagree with a lot less than the current approach.

      Soz can’t be more conversational, to the acid mines I go. Pray for me.