Good point, thanks for the criticism

I’m not in a swing state and I already vote every year. Stop trying to convince me and go attend a dsa meeting or something

Okay so you’re not willing to do anything unless you, through your personal actions, can stop an entire genocide? Or are you trying to make a different point?

It is more like they’re building more concentration camps and we are voting whether there should be a “in this house” lawnsign out front of each one.

At some point you have to realize that voting within capitalist psuedo-democracy will not get you the results you want, if you care about stopping the construction of the concentration camps.

At some point, you have to realize that the working class is only going to save itself from encroaching fascism by banding together, and not by voting between candidates that will never be allowed to represent our interests.

I’m sympathetic to the idea that Kamala Harris will be better in some ways than Trump, but I dont care enough to really bother examining all sides of the argument, because fascism is a structural issue that will not be resolved through sham elections where people only get options approved by the Capitalist class.

The capitalist class will lead us to fascism if they are not stopped. That is the long and short of it.

If you care about stopping fascism- if you’re willing to put blood sweat and tears into preventing it from happening in the US- you have to join a socialist org and work towards defeating capitalism. Our oppressors will not grant us freedom through their ballot box.

I admit I’m ignorant on the issue, and you seem to know: what are some examples of socialist organizations being the main force in stopping fascism?

WW2. Soviet Union inflicting more than 80 percent of losses + partisans in the Balkans freeing themselves. Italian partisans were also not given credit for their huge role in liberating Italy. Most resistance in fascist territory had a huge socialist contingent. Romania had a socialist movement that pulled off a coup during ww2 as the Soviets were making their push back to Berlin, saving a massive amount of lives.The socialists during the Spanish Civil War, although they were basically just Spanish Republicans + limited soviet aid fighting against half of Spain, and massive German and Italian forces, so they lost.

In Germany, the socialists fought the fascists but the liberals were more willing to form a coalition with the fascists than with the socialists.

And what about the cases of socialist fascism? Is the only remedy a more socialist organization?

Could you define what you mean by this? Because fascism is a specific thing that emerges within capitalism. There is no such thing as socialist fascism, as someone who has done a lot of learning on the history of fascism and socialism.

Don’t give a shit who you vote for but if you want to actually stop fascism you have to go join a socialist org. Liberals are structurally incapable of stopping fascism, as fascism is capitalism in decay and liberals support capitalism as their number 1 priority.

Is this mutually exclusive with your friend’s statement?

Do you care about stopping fascism? Then you must study its history, and come to the understanding that it can only be opposed by socialist organizing.

Go join a socialist org. Vote for whoever you want to but don’t pretend like voting for Kamala Harris will stop the crisis.

To oppose fascism with conviction, you have to build up a socialist project.

Cool, so you want to use trans genocide to justify your position, and you’ll listen to the trans people who agree with you but not to trans people to disagree with you.

This is good ally behavior /s

Don’t give a shit who you vote for but if you want to actually stop fascism you have to go join a socialist org. Liberals are structurally incapable of stopping fascism, as fascism is capitalism in decay and liberals support capitalism as their number 1 priority.

There are no actions available to me that will end the Palestinian genocide.

https://files.catbox.moe/bcu4mt.mp4

These people are part of an organization that does sabotage like this. The last team got fully acquited as the jury refused to convict them.

Yes, genocide is acceptable insofar as I know my actions won’t stop it, and I’m not gambling with the lives of people I care about over “maybe the revolution will stop it eventually” or whatever nonsense you believe will happen.

As capitalism decays fascism becomes a certainty. I would suggest reading “The Economy and Class Structure of German Fascism” which offers a political-economic analysis from the perspective of a German who had access to the semi-internal communications of the capitalist class as capitalism was entering its fascist stage in Germany.

If you aren’t joining a socialist org that is moving toward the abolition of capitalism you’re lying down and accepting fascism will happen.

Stop pretending you don’t have any agency and go join an org.

look at history and tell me how many popular uprisings actually made life better

Cuba, Vietnam, China, USSR, hell even the dprk. Look at life expectancy, literacy, infant and maternal mortality, extreme poverty metrics, worker self management systems, and moving from dictatorship to soviet style proletarian democracy

Most revolutions aren’t actually done by the “plucky group of militiamen,” they are done by government insiders who use leftists to get a W and then boot them out.

All of these revolutions were lead by organizations that didn’t have government insider connections like that.

Trans woman here, stop using the genocide happening against us to wipe your hands of the genocide happening in Gaza

If you actually oppose fascism, you have to join a socialist org. I don’t give a shit who you vote for, but the liberals won’t stop fascism, they structurally can’t.

Hiking, socialist work or socialist socializing, friends, that’s mostly it

The point is that there is a universalizing here of something that isn’t universal

Idk I crush on a lot of folks, I’m also in a long term (polyam) relationship.

Whether or not rejection is a part of life or healthy in the long term it is going to be bad while you’re experiencing it

Why?

when seeing the object of your affection with someone else could arguably be unbecoming since you’ll want the best for them but it’s about ad human as it gets.

I tend to feel compersion over envy

Neither is bad.

But instead we are arguing the semantics over whether a man should take responsibilty for his own bigotry or whether the entire global leftist project should bear that burden for him.

I’m not having that argument? I am sort of confused as to why you think I’m making that argument?

I think you’re continuing to read me as appealing to pragmatism when I am instead appealing to learning from people who he respects on why he is personally wrong on the issue.

I would once again ask you, what specifically do you want to happen? If you’re having a hard time articulating it, I would suggest looking at the constructive criticism handbook. https://www.marxists.org/history/erol/ncm-3/constructive-criticism.html?ref=redstarcaucus.org

Man is a person. He answers to a community. He’s not actually a party official of the revolutionary guard and you and I are allowed to demand better.

Demand better from him than providing free gender affirming care and legalizing gay marriage, affirming other alt family structures, proactively having a country do pro-lgbt education to root out cultural bigotry like in Cuba? I’m am somewhat confused by this statement? What does demanding better here look like?

There can be no allyship with someone who understands our experience purely through the lens of political opportunism.

Do you think all pro-lgbt measures done in socialist states to be about political opportunism? Because in Cuba it took a multi-decade effort while struggling against the influence of the catholic church and colonial-legacy machismo culture to expand lgbt rights to the point that they’re better than the US

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In some contexts but it is broader than that.