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How could they consider her in the first place? This is subject to so much suspicion. Is the EU so poor in talents that we have to recruit in the USA for such critical positions?

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I still have coins. Do you have any advice on how to use them? Is there any word out there about it?

I’d at least hope you were arguing in good faith, but you’re obviously not

Can’t you just say “I disagree with you” instead of accusing people of arguing in bad faith? What’s so hard with explaining why you left reddit?

Being in an instance with people who share similar topics is fine. Defederating from general instances, though, just puts you in a small bubble.

Wow, what a colossal waste of time it was. I spent time explaining the thing and that’s all I’ve got in return.

I don’t understand why you reject that any other solution other than defederation might work when it has worked for Mastodon, Pixelfed, etc.

The mass of content is different, the type of content is different. I don’t know why you compare them. Reddit is the closest example of what we are aiming for and you refused to answer why you left reddit.

I’m done, I’m not spending more time with this.

Reddit did it fine.

Reddit has one unique instance only.

Reddit had moderation everywhere.

Still reddit is flooded by low effort content.

Mags should moderate themselves. Going back to the Reddit analogy, if a subreddit mixed memes and useful content, and I didn’t want to see memes, I’d stop following that subreddit.

This is not reddit here. This is more like chaos. Reddit is an example of an instance completely defederated, with only one authority. You cannot expect the same here when you federate with everyone.

Neither do I, but that’s ironically what we’d both get if we followed your suggestion of defederating from “generic” instances. Most useful and informative communities I follow right now are on lemmy.ml and lemmy.world. If we defederate from them just because you don’t want to click the block button a couple of times, we would both lose access to most informative communities in this space.

No, they would probably post their useful information in a federation which promotes quality.

“just because you don’t want to click the block button a couple of times”

As if I was the problem. We are only one month in. What do you think will happen in 6 months? Do you really believe that new users will follow your routine to block every sub posting trash? Of course they won’t! They will follow the link to a federation that fit their style. Why not? What’s the big fuss about federating with a select group of instance? Whats the drama about? I don’t get it.

Every time someone mention defederation it’s like we kicked a hornet’s nest. People will run away from memes. And defederation is an adequate tool for this. You can stay if you want, other people will leave.

If, however, we simply filter some of the most active communities’ content out, and enable users to keep blocking out stuff they don’t want to see at all, you can get a good mix of all the content you follow, and you can still go directly to the communities in which you want to read every single thread and read every single thread. We could even have a /sub and a /filtered-sub, where in the first one you’d see aboslutely everything, and in the second one you’d have a Reddit style sub tab with a mix of content of the various communities you follow.

You won’t win this race. Eventually people wanting quality will rejoin people wanting quality on another federation.

And that’s fine IMO. /r/all was unusable on Reddit, too, and I think that’s fine because it’s not made for you or me. Some of my friends loved /r/all, though, and refused to use the sub only view. I think like on Reddit, /all is meant for people who want to see content from absolutely everything and like living in chaos, basically. I personally don’t see the point of that, so I’d rather follow /sub. But I want /sub to have all of communities I follow, and not have most communities arbitrarily cut out because, again, you alone don’t like memes.

Fine, you are welcome to stay with the meme enjoyers. It makes me wonder why you are not on reddit. If reddit “does it so well” why didn’t you stay on reddit?

ETA: I love that there is no algorithm showing me more of what I’ve already engaged with or more of what it thinks I want. I like being exposed to new stuff that I didn’t know I wanted to read about.

And the mass of this new content is memes and low effort. There is no miracle. It worked at first because of the people who joined initially, we left reddit for a reason. But some people are already feeling the crowd effect and the fediverse hasn’t reached his maximum intensity yet, far from it. So expect the default fediverse federation to get worse and worse, because spammers want a public.

I see no other direction for the people who want quality content to create their own federation. Sure you can put some limiters here and there but the fundamental problem will remain. No one ever said that everyone should federate with everyone.

I think we should give it time and see how things go, but there will probably be a lot of changes on the federation thing.

I don’t think your answer addresses what the OP is talking about at all and it’s getting kinda scary that the immediate answer to every small issue people have on the Fediverse seems to be defederation. People do love their echo chambers apparently.

I did address the point. My conclusion is it cannot be done reliably by an automated system and that we have the choice of blocking manually or defederating.

What I want, and I think that’s what the OP is talking about, is simply to have a way to slow down the posts from the more active communities - kinda like how Reddit didn’t show you all of the content of a very active sub when you were on your main feed, but only the hottest threads, and you’d get a mix of threads from very big active subreddits and smaller more inactive subreddits. I love the LOTR meme communities, for example, but I don’t want to see all of their posts on my main feed, since it drowns out discussions from other smaller communities. All we need for that is a limit to the amount of threads you can be shown from every community on your main feed.

Then I already mentioned why it cannot work reliably: “how would you make the difference between useful posts and spam from the same mag? You can’t, it’s just too much content to sort out.”

So you want the insightful posts being hidden from a mag because someone else in the same mag spammed memes? Because that’s what you will get. Sorry but I don’t want that. I want to be out of this meme bubble. We are slowly encountering the same problem than reddit had.

I dislike the idea of “federations devoted to a topic”

Nope, I did not say “devoted to a topic”. I said “In the end it will come to a federation made of instances with the same moderation policy.”

I said “moderation policy”, I didn’t say “topic”. I said that hobbyists would start the process, but they will probably federate with other hobbyists from other domain as long as they share the same moderation policy.

/all will soon become unusable anyway. It was great at the beginning, but the more people join and the more it will become unusable. You didn’t really think that all instances would always be federated, right?

It’s not just memes but also unrelated content to the magazine. There are spammers out there, hunting for quantity.

The short answer is probably: you can’t. You say you don’t want to block the mag, but how would you make the difference between useful posts and spam from the same mag? You can’t, it’s just too much content to sort out.

The only reason why we did not defederate was a lack of content. Once kbin.social is filled with enough users federation won’t be necessary anymore and it will be seen as a way to introduce cheap content to prime newborn instances.

Can you tell the difference between lemmy.ml, beesomething and lemmyworld or the cohort of attempts at lemmysomehing? No. There isn’t much difference. The idea was that instances would specialize into a theme but it did not happen. People want the mass. They want to be where the buzz happens.

Yes, in theory you can use any instance as a point of entry but in reality people want to join the biggest party. So the only difference between instances is mostly moderation. And somehow the initial link that people saw in their original community to find their new instance. Like many of us did with /r/redditmigration

This is all about sane default settings. If your instance allows everything and let you chose what you don’t want to see then you are trapped into a whack-a-mole game against a million moles. You will lose your mind blocking stuff constantly.

Either

• we defederate spammy instances, like you mentioned lemmy.world
• we block a mag, and other mags from the same instance will popup anyway.

People won’t have the patience to block the meme spammers. In short: the blacklist system we are using no cannot handle the increasing load of meh content, we have to use the whitelist method.

In the end it will come to a federation made of instances with the same moderation policy. It will work because this policy will enforce the best content possible and will attract the people looking for quality content. So the people complaining about “defederation being a fascist practice” will stay on the old global federation, nothing will be forced upon them, while other people looking for quality will silently leave for instances with better federation standards. The most motivated people will bootstrap the concept, probably people passionate with hardware or another hobby.

Lemmy.world won’t be on their federation list. Too bad for them but it’s their fault for creating an account on a spammy instance.

This state where everyone federates with everyone (except criminals) comes to an end. We will have many different federations, not a single one.

Upvoting your own material is a Michael Scott thing to do.

If you are subscribed to the same mag 3 times, well it’s on you. You want volume you have it.

What is possible is to filter through a script and only show the local one.

Plus, most people on kbin would prefer not to be defederated against their will and be unable to subscribe to communities from there.

Well, to quote you, if they are not happy they can always: “Find a new instance, this is not your fiefdom here to run.”

Yeah, “go away if you’re not happy” is really the lamest answer possible. And he is more like “captain reddit”, always freaking out about popularity and subscribers.

Thanks for the numbers! It’s always interesting for someone wanting to dig more seriously into the self-hosting of fediverse tools.

Well, I think it puts an end to the idea of ever federating with big names like facebook. It would cost way too much money and resources.

1. not yet

2. Not that I know of, but you can search by tags: https://kbin.social/tag/tech

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What OP did not mention is the fedipact. There are seemingly admins of the fediverse signing an NDA with facebook. The fedipact is about admins swearing that they will never federate with facebook.

So of course if an admin signs an agreement with facebook and changes the conditions, the protocol, benefits from credits to improve the infra then it’s a different threat and different debate.

Federating with Meta without an agreement is a laughable science fiction scenario, but federating with an agreement is dangerous for the users.

I would treat meta like any other instance, if its a source of headache then deferate.

If we federate with meta then our instance will simply stop responding because of the workload alone.

Everyone agreeing to defederate from meta won’t mean they stop. It won’t prevent EEE.

No. If we are talking about the EEE side of things then we must defederate. If facebook federates with the intention of EEE then they will ALSO bribe the admins.

Because activitypub is a buzz word. They will allow access to privileged partners who will sign contracts and legal agreements with them. Certainly not with a bunch of nerds who are here because they hate facebook. he wants us out as much as we want him out.

Can you cite your sources where Meta is forcing people to sign a legal agreement to federate, or are you just going from your gut?

No I cant. I’m going from my gut. GAFAM are all about laws, that’s their only weakness. Did they talk about federating with us anywhere?

If they federate then they will host pedo content day one. Any lawyer of Zuck will warn him about that.

Right now, Facebook is giving me a chance to interact with my friends without using Facebook.

You won’t be able to talk on threads if you don’t first sign a legal agreement with Facebook.

You know who else want to talk to their friends: The islamic state. Do you really think for a second that Threads will federate with an instance of the islamic state? Threads won’t federate. Why would they federate? Tell us. Zuck doesn’t want you, you talk bad about facebook, he is glad that you are out.

No fediverse server can handle the amount of data of threads. I don’t think you realize the size of these project.

If they federate then we can publish on their site without having to sign any legal agreement to anything! Hello lawyers! \o/