Unfortunately, I drive a ghetto minivan which causes the police to profile me and has caused people in small towns to call the police on me if I am in a public park or in their neighborhood. I even had someone call the police on me at campground that I had pre-paid for and the police were not sympathetic at all to my right to just exist.
I am aware of stop and identify laws and know that a cop needs reasonable suspicion to demand to see your ID. However, can’t the cop just make up some lies about reasonable suspicion?
If a cop approaches me can I immediately start with: “Officer, do you have reasonable suspicion that a crime has occurred, is in the process of occurring, or is about to occur?” It seems like that will immediately escalate things even if technically the law is on my side.
I just want a damn right to exist law and to not be a target for an overactive imagination by the police which treats me like a criminal until they can check me for warrants.
Honestly, I want to tell them to fuck off right away but I also don’t have money for a lawyer.
I’d just show them my ID.
Well, go buy a shitty minivan and drive it through some small towns and then after you get harassed you might get fed up a little. Maybe I was too ambiguous with the post title…I should have posted “what should I do” rather than “what do you do”
i also live in a shitty minivan… getting it over with as quickly and politely as possible is actually your best bet.
one lovely cop expression is “you only need one nail to hang your hat on”, meaning: they can pretty much arrest you at any time because there’s always some crime or suspicion of a crime they can get you for…
or another way to frame it is: at the end of the day, cops with guns will do what they want… so don’t make them want to do anything…
or, more directly, in my decades of vagabond experience… do not try to argue, debate or shame the cops, unless you really want a couple of tickets and several court dates to argue your position…
“i smell burnt marijuana”, for example, is a cop’s goto for searching your van… ive seen them say it when there was definitely no weed around… but that’s not going to help you, until after a bunch of court and bullshit…
…
basically there’s no way to make all cops respect your rights without some tedious court shit… you may be legally correct, but that doesn’t help until much later…
…
pragmatically, you can try to blend in more… paint rusy spots, etc and make your van look more normy… keep your van clean and free of any character… any self expression…
clear dashboard, clean interior… make it look like you might not be camping in there.
…
another touch i like is leave some folders from the local city college on your dashboard.
there’s a huge difference in sympathy between a broke student living in their van, trying to pull up bootstraps or whatever, and what they imagine is some junky/psycho bum living in their van getting free rent.
it’s a dumb world but just seeming friendly and sympathetic helps… they don’t have the framework to imagine what you’re going through…
housey-psychology is all guesswork, but it seems like college, musician/artist, and having a dog helps…
definitely seeming as clean and organized as possible helps… any evidence of beer and you’re automatically a scumbag…
reddit sucks, obviously, but the vagabond and vanliving subs have good resources…
All of that is good advice. I do get haircuts and stay clean shaven most of the time. So, I don’t look homeless but my van does.
It seems like every day there’s a new article about people getting priced out of apartments and unable to afford homes. So, it’s just a matter of time before there’s some huge “Grapes of Wrath” style caravans of people living in cars. I wonder if it will get to the point where the cops look the other way simply because there’s too many people living in cars.
Dude in my area apartments are 3/4 of my take home pay.
I can only live because I live in coop housing that is 1/4th my pay, and I was only invited here because my buddy moved away and the neighbors already like me.
I don’t see how asking for an ID is harassment. Like, are they asking you every day even though they know you by now?
different towns…also the incident at the campground happened and there were other people camping. The cop didn’t go check in on any of them. His specific “reasonable suspicion” was that in the past at that campground they have had trouble with “riff-raff”. Great! So be it, then why not go ID check all the other campers then? I was being profiled and targeted because of the vehicle I was driving. If you don’t understand then that’s because this hasn’t happened to you 10 times or more. It gets tiring.
But I don’t see how you can argue yourself out of the situation. Even if you find the magical words you can say to police officers to leave you alone, you will still have to say these words to them in every town. At this point just showing your ID seems like less effort.
Not arguing that. But I also don’t see how you can change anything about that without changing the actual vehicle. There is a reason my drug delivery guys only drive B.M.W. and Mercedes.
I don’t want to argue…in fact I don’t even want to talk to them. I just want to say “If you don’t have reasonable suspicion then I am not legally required to show you my ID” then I want them to go away. I suspect that would not happen. I was hoping someone would read my post and tell me that they did that exact thing and let me know how it turned out.
Were the other campers actually camping and you were just a minivan parked at a campsite?
Because not many campers just sit inside a minivan the whole time.
But meth heads do, because they can’t smoke meth out in the open.
Stop being angry people notice you, and start trying to blend in. If you’re paying for the site, you might as well use it.
I have a ghetto van. It does not blend in. The campground was one incident. There are many more which have happened in parking lots where other people are also sitting in their cars. Since the invention of smart phones a lot of people sit in their cars for various reasons and look at their phones or use laptops. It’s not illegal nor suspicious to sit in your car. - Anytime you vent online people look for an angle to blame you. I just want to exist without being harassed like everyone else.
What is a “ghetto van”?
It seems reading through the comments you always point that out as the reason you’re getting singled out.
Maybe you should improve the Van such that it’s no longer a “ghetto van” and that would help to stop said profiling.
Have you seen early 2000s Dodge Caravan models? Imagine one of those with dents and a lot of rust. All of life is about money - sure the solution is go buy a $100,000 RV but if I could do that I would have already done that.
It’s not an all or nothing thing dude. Just because you can’t make it perfect doesn’t mean you can’t improve it. I’d say try and fix those dents. Often you can reduce how bad a dent looks without specialty tools or paint. As far as rust, you can get rust converting primer to spray on. It’ll help stop the rust as well as make it look like you’re trying to fix the van instead of letting it rust down around you.
So…
You did go to a campsite where families were in tents and you just sat inside your sketchy minivan and don’t understand why the cops were called?
It might be just one example, but it was your pick. You saw nothing wrong with you behavior or understood why it was suspicious…
So there’s a good chance lots of the time you don’t see a reason, there’s a very good reason it’s happening.
Go lurk on r/vandwelling on Reddit, there’s a shit ton of old posts going over common sense stuff that you would greatly benefit from. And I sincerely mean that as good advice, by your own admission you want help.
But there’s not a lot of people on Lemmy, and this is pretty important.
So go reathe posts of people who live this life and have been doing it for years.
I am upset about the profiling. Being poor does not automatically make you a criminal. Like when they profile people of color or Middle Easterns at airports. There’s plenty of rich dudes driving $100,000 cars who are committing crimes in society. I know there’s nothing I can do…just venting. Also, I had out of state license plates. As long as the locals were using their imaginations they could have just imagined that I was driving cross country (which was actually the case). So, because I am poor and have an ugly van I have no rights to use a campground that I paid for, right?
Can you grab a crap tent you can throw up, just to look the part? Something that’s quick to put up just to look the part. Or heck just leave camping gear outside conspicuously
I have thought about that. It is a good idea. I believe in psychology they call that “signaling”. Might have to start doing that. But I don’t go to campgrounds a lot. I still get harassed if I am eating fast food in a public park or just sitting somewhere on my laptop.
Sounds like they might be profiling you based on more than your vehicle.
ACAB
Lol ok if different cops came to your front door multiple times a week, asking for ID, you don’t think you would feel harrassed.
That’s privilege buddy.
Your frontdoor usually doesn’t move from town to town, entering different jurisdictions … but ok buddy.
Alright, get a visit from the cops every time you move house or stay at a hotel.
Nard.
It’s almost like cars and houses are different.
I understand OPs situation. Your non-sense analogy isn’t adding anything.
So you draw the line of a domicile somewhere between RV and van, just like the law says. Like a guy living in poverty is less entitled to peace because of his choice of cheap vehicle.
Bootlicker.
I did not draw such a line, no Sir or Madam. I’m not sure where you got any information on me making such distinctions. I really don’t know where you are getting this.
Hear hear, privilege speaking here…