cross-posted from: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/17869503
I know I’m going against the grain here, I’m obviously no Harris lover, but also I’d prefer to be allowed to continue existing. If that’s controversial in leftist spaces then maybe I don’t want to spend any more time in leftist spaces.
I mostly lurk and prefer to not get involved in politics, but GOOD GOD I’M SO GLAD I’M NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO FEELS THIS WAY. It’s so exhausting.
What sucks is that voting isn’t swearing a blood oath that turns you into a slave of neoliberalism and prevents you from doing direct action: you can do both. Voting isn’t going to save Palestinians (and it’s a bitter pill to swallow, I know), but it’s going to save lots of other vulnerable minorities (who never really asked to be born in the imperial core!), and still provide breathing room for direct action that can help Palestine.
Like… even if you don’t care about the safety of trans people, pragmatically speaking it’s immensely easier to organize as leftists in a neoliberal regime than it is in a fascist regime. Just look at what happened to the KPD when they proclaimed “first Hitler, then it’s our turn”. (Yes, the SPD backstabbed them during Weimar - RIP Rosa Luxemburg - but that pales to the Nazis basically rounding them all up and sending them to the gas chambers!) I don’t want history to repeat. Please don’t let it repeat.
Your comment exposes what it is that’s so deeply disturbing about this wave if Leftist Nihilism. They’re basically saying “if we can’t save everyone, then we might as well all die.”
This. I vote for the best outcome my vote could achievably help to bring about and lets not forget about primaries and getting in better canidates from the get go. But voting is only one thing.
The SPD insisted on voting for the “lesser evil” of Hindenburg to stop Hitler rather than cooperating with the KPD, who they denounced as being just as bad as the Nazis. Hindenburg then proceeded to appoint Hitler as chancellor, which is exactly what allowed him to come to power.
we managed thrive since our government started adopting project 2025 in 1981 and also without democrat support. (democrat support came later after most the blood, sweat, and tears were done and we only accepted them because reagan and bush were worse). we survived and thrived those decades, despite its HUGE downsides; so i see project 2025 as nothing more than propaganda to energize kamala’s base who can’t remember before 2008.
however this is the most cogent argument i’ve seen anywhere for supporting this perpetual minority making machine and i think it’s only flaw (besides the 2025 propaganda) is its narrow focus on this this election cycle instead of considering the big picture:
democrats have been moving rightwards since the 1980’s and, every time they’ve won, they’ve entrenched that capitalist affirming step that they believe helped them win the election. this has created a eroding downward trend on protections for things like civil rights and the environment. we’ve now descended to a point where genocide is back on the menu again like it was 100 years ago and i’m afraid of what else will show up on the menu next time after the democrat’s entrench a genocide as a tolerable political tactic.
i suspect that it’s a moot point since most of us here have been holding our nose to vote for the lesser evil for the last 45 years and doing so has, nonetheless, painted us into this corner of choice between an democratic active genocider and a republican who only wishes he was.
Lmao people acting like how trans people are treated is a fraction of what Palestinians are going though. I’m sure if you went to Gaza you’d be voting third party to end the war at all costs.
Voting isn’t going to end the war. Not voting is also not going to end the war. Stop wasting your time and good will by chastising people for voting strategically. All you’re doing is sowing leftist division.
Voting strategically is only voting Democrats if you live in a swing state, otherwise it’s voting third party to popularize getting out of this duopoly
The Republican strategy is to contest the election in every state, county, and polling station. So no matter where people live, we need to high voter turnout to avoid a contested election. We do not want a repeat of the 2000 election.
Jeez I really feel like I live in a democracy! I have all these parties to vote for, but only 2 can be elected. Also I can’t vote for one because they’re facist. So I live in a democracy but I must vote for the Democrats, regardless of whether I want to.
…
Also it’s the Democrats telling me all this. But the Democrats aren’t facists. The two parties aren’t the same.
No, I, a registered independent, trans person, am telling you this. People who are actually on the left are telling you this.
We live in a democracy. If we want to keep living in a democracy we need to vote for Kamala, because Trump is running on ending on our democracy and starting a christo-fascist dictatorship.
Even if by some miracle you manage to convince enough people to vote 3rd party that the Democrats take notice, what makes you think it’ll change anything? The most the Democrats would do is adjust their rhetoric; money makes policy, not votes. You’re doing more harm than good when you try aggressively guilting people into voting 3rd party when the election is literally days away. Refocus your energy towards more productive things.
but voting third party isn’t going to help end the war at all Trump has made it get clear that if he wins he will push Israel to destroy Gaza faster. explicitly. he wants them dead. a third party vote doesn’t work in a first past the post system.
If everyone voted third party, we would elect candidates who actually want to end the war, so yes voting third party does help end the war.
In a more realistic world, it pressures the Democrats to change their mind about Gaza to get the third party voters back
We live in a first-past-the-post system so everyone is systemically disincentivized to vote third party. Voting third party acts as a spoiler for the Democrats. And historically when Democrats lose they move further to the right. The most useful course of action is for everyone to vote for Kamala so we can start shifting the Overton window to the left.