Germany's Greens would deliver Taurus missiles – DW – 11/17/2024
p.dw.com

Germany’s Economy Minister Robert Habeck, who is currently the Green Party’s chancellor candidate in the upcoming elections, said that if elected, he would send Taurus cruise missiles to Ukraine.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has repeatedly asked his allies for long-range weapons so that the Ukrainian military can attack Russian logistics centers and military bases far behind the front line and within Russian territory.

But until now, Chancellor Olaf Scholz has chosen not to supply Taurus cruise missiles, saying they could enable Ukraine to also hit targets in the Russian capital Moscow.

[…]

Meanwhile, French President Emmanuel Macron reacted to the Russian air barrage on Ukraine, saying that Russian President Vladimir Putin “does not want peace and is not ready to negotiate.”

“It’s clear that President Putin intends to intensify the fighting,” Macron said.

He made the remarks as he prepared to leave Argentina to attend the G20 Summit in Brazil.

[…]

The French president, however, said Ukraine’s allies “must remain united … on an agenda for genuine peace, that is to say, a peace that does not mean Ukraine’s surrender.”

Macron highlighted that his country’s priority was to “equip, support and help Ukraine to resist.”

  • superkret@feddit.orgEnglish
    181·
    3 hours ago

    It’s kind of ironic and pretty bitter. The Greens were founded by environmentalists and pacifists.
    Their slogan was “never again war, never again genocide”

    And both times they were part of a government coalition, they immediately had to decide on an active involvement in a European war (Yugoslavia and Ukraine).
    Cause in both wars, “never again war, never again genocide” wasn’t an option.
    They had to chose one, and they chose to get involved in the war to stop a genocide.

    • gajustempus@feddit.orgEnglish
      2·
      29 minutes ago

      Pacifism doesn’t mean you cannot defend yourself or surrender against an attacker.

      And that’s the whole point here: Ukraine isn’t waging a war, they’re defending against an invasion.

      • superkret@feddit.orgEnglish
        1·
        12 minutes ago

        But pacifism does usually mean you don’t join a war where you aren’t attacked yourself.
        Which is the situation the German Greens are in.

        Yes, Ukraine is legitimately, directly, currently defending itself.
        Germany isn’t.

    • trollercoaster@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      52·
      3 hours ago

      Be careful what you wish for, the German Greens ditched a good part of their climate policy, they even approved of strip mining away a whole village for brown coal.

      • TheGrandNagus@lemmy.worldEnglish
        3·
        27 minutes ago

        True, they are far from perfect.

        But the Greens where I am are against things like building new solar/wind farms, and against infrastructure that connects this renewable energy stuff to the grid. They’re against building any new houses.

        They’re just a NIMBY party cashing in on people thinking they’re actually green.

        • trollercoaster@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          3·
          1 hour ago

          The German Greens do have enough NIMBYs, too, who at times will happily confuse small localised protection of two stalks of grass with protection of the climate.

  • Valmond@lemmy.worldEnglish
    5·
    4 hours ago

    I wonder why we built all those weapons, is it for protection against the USA? China?

    Can’t be against Russia can it now?

  • Hamartiogonic@sopuli.xyzEnglish
    6·
    5 hours ago

    Wow, that was not a headline I was expecting to see. The sentiment has shifted quite dramatically in the past two years.

    • gigachad@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      36·
      5 hours ago

      At least regarding Germany the truth is the Greens have been pushing for more weapons deliveries almost since the beginning of the war. It has been pretty clear that not delivering Taurus is because Scholz decided so.

    • barsoap@lemm.eeEnglish
      11·
      4 hours ago

      The Greens started out as a party of (among other things) the peace movement but quickly realised that vulgar pacifism is a) self-defeating and b) gets exploited by war mongers. In short, you gotta stand up to bullies. They very much backed the Kosovo intervention, and generally are in favour of talking softly but carrying a big stick. With friends, while singing Kumbaya, before aiming it at some genocidal maniac. In short scratch the hippie attitude now it’s metal.

    • Melchior@feddit.orgEnglish
      161·
      5 hours ago

      Really? The Greens are the most hawkish party in Germany, when it comes to Russia.

      • Hamartiogonic@sopuli.xyzEnglish
        1·
        1 hour ago

        TIL: The Green Party has been actively supporting Ukraine for quite some time. I was mostly just thinking of the general atmosphere of political discourse surrounding this topic. Remember that time when it wasn’t even clear that sending weapons is ok.

      • federal reverse@feddit.orgMEnglish
        6·
        1 hour ago

        Among German parties, the Greens were the most skeptical of Russia for the past ~15 years. But until the war, they were never hawkish. Only days before the war started, foreign minister Baerbock (Greens) said Germany wouldn’t deliver weapons. In late January 2022, the government then promised “5000 helmets” (although I think this may have had more to do with the chancellor than the Greens).

          • federal reverse@feddit.orgMEnglish
            3·
            3 hours ago

            Reading her Wikipedia entry, it sounds like she was dismissed for being too much of a Scholz loyalist. And that kind of matches my recollection: She was careful to discuss everything with Scholz and to not cross him, whereas her [suc]cessor just took matters in his own hands and ran with it.

            According to a media report, in the discussion about the possible delivery of Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine, which intensified at the end of 2022, she forbade her ministry from even recording its own stock of Leopard 2 and Leopard 1 tanks, as knowledge of deliverable stocks could potentially have put further pressure on Federal Chancellor Olaf Scholz. [DeepL, Wikipedia]

            In der Ende 2022 sich verstärkenden Diskussion um die mögliche Lieferung von Leopard-2-Panzern an die Ukraine verbot sie nach einem Medienbericht ihrem Ministerium, den eigenen Bestand an den Panzern Leopard 2 und Leopard 1 überhaupt zu erfassen, da Kenntnis lieferbarer Bestände möglicherweise weiteren Druck auf den Bundeskanzler Olaf Scholz hätte aufbauen können.

            • CyberEgg@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
              3·
              2 hours ago

              I remembered it wrong. She herself asked for being let go, officially because the constant discussions about her person made it impossible for her to do her job (her statement).