• reMaster17@lemmy.world
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    5 days ago

    To clarify I only meant the attacks on civilians. There will never be a way to justify the senseless killing of those. There are other ways than violence to get rid of them. Ofc the whole situation in Gaza is fucked beyond comparison but there has to be another way on the world political stage to resolve this instead of letting it cook like we now do.

    • TheOubliette@lemmy.ml
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      5 days ago

      To clarify I only meant the attacks on civilians.

      The ANC also attacked civilians. Though you should note how dramatically more the Israelis (and the SA government and white South Africans) target civilians.

      There will never be a way to justify the senseless killing of those.

      When under occupation, any means necessary is not only sanctioned by international law, it is necessary. Note that the kibbutzim in the area had armories and shot at the al Aqsa flood participants, which included a wide coalition as well as whoever simply went past the walls of their own volition.

      How is it senseless, by the way? Do you actually know what happened on the ground? Who did what? What was going in in their heads? What their lives were? There is an implicit chauvinism in the use of clichés and guesses rather than become educated.

      There are other ways than violence to get rid of them.

      No there aren’t. You apparently know nothing about the history here, the many movements that attempted peaceful means, even as recent as the Great March of Return in 2018. And the repeated lies and violence that Palestinians have faced following every diplomatic agreement.

      As you can see, the Israelis will speed up and openly embrace genocide at the mere perception that they are not totally dominant over those that they occupy. Israelis march not for peace or justice, but for harsher violence and getting rapists out of jail. They are an ethnic supremacist culture that embrace the genocide they are committing. You cannot “peace” your way out of that. You would condemn Palestinians to extinction.

      For concentration camp victims, they are far more restrained than virtually anyone. Would you also condemn the Sioux for killing settlers occupying their land? Why not instead materially oppose the settler colonists? Your tut-tutting is just tacit both-sidesing of a decidedly imbalanced situation.

      Ofc the whole situation in Gaza is fucked beyond comparison but there has to be another way on the world political stage to resolve this instead of letting it cook like we now do.

      There is not. You have an unrealistic idea about how geopolitics and imperialist violence function. It is not like the movies or the 1 or 2 examples of allegedly nonviolent movements recuperated by capitalism. You’re not going to win just because you are right or empathetic. You will not convince your captors and child murderers with a good speech and some protests. Most of the states, i.e. the major sourcea of military power in the world, will not step in to help you unless it serves their self interest - and most capitalist countries see subverting themselves to the US and therefore Israel as in their self interest.

      And when states or similar forces do step up, you get tacit genocide apologetic PR campaigns against them. Such as, “do you condemn Hamas?”

      The historical and realistic source of liberation is organized armed struggle.

    • geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml
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      5 days ago

      Hamas has tried all other ways. They did a peaceful march in 2019 and Israel still massacred them.

      Hamas killed very few civilians. Most of those killed were trained soldiers who would have now participated in the Gaza genocide

    • HiddenLayer555@lemmy.ml
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      5 days ago

      To clarify I only meant the attacks on civilians. There will never be a way to justify the senseless killing of those.

      Getting all high and mighty about when Palestinians kill civilians while conveniently ignoring Israel’s actions (both after this event and in the decades that led to it) makes your argument extremely bad faith.

      If we’re going by number of civilians killed by each side, then the Palestinians are very much in the right.

      Also, define civilian. I wasn’t there, have no stake in either side, and obviously have no personal desire for anyone on either side to get harmed, but I can sort of underatand why the victims of a genocidal occupation might not exactly consider the occupiers who stole their land to be innocent civilians.

      instead of letting it cook like we now do.

      “Letting it cook” would be an improvement to what we’re currently doing, which is actively supporting and arming Israel.