• JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee
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    1 day ago

    You could still participate in society and buy cheaper, more ethical phones than Apple ones.

    • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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      14 hours ago

      The point is that it doesn’t discredit the original criticism. The guy in the comic is trying to shift the focus from the systemic level to individual consumer habits, and to discredit anyone who doesn’t adhere to perfection. This is a common tactic the right uses, and no matter what level of ethical consumption you do they’ll either still say it anyway or switch to characterizing you as an extremist or some other tact, for instance, the various tactics used to attack vegans and veganism. There is good faith criticism to be made regarding ethical consumption, but there’s also bad faith criticism where it’s used to discredit legitimate criticism, which is what the comic is calling out.

    • Naich@lemmings.world
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      14 hours ago

      I see it as being a progression of that argument from being right in the first one, debatable in the second and completely wrong in the third.

      • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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        14 hours ago

        That’s not what the comic is saying at all. What do you think the message of the comic is? That feudalism is bad?

        • Naich@lemmings.world
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          13 hours ago

          What do you think it’s saying? I’m assuming it’s that the guy is using a flawed argument in situations that make it increasingly obvious, with the third one being utterly ridiculous that he thinks it’s a gotcha.

          • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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            13 hours ago

            That is what it’s saying, but that completely contradicts what you said before, that he’s “right” in the first case and “debatable” in the second. The point is he’s wrong in all three and the comic is demonstrating that by applying his logic to increasingly absurd situations.

            • Naich@lemmings.world
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              11 hours ago

              He’s not totally wrong in the first one. You can buy phones that are more ethically produced than Apple ones. There is a choice to get something better, even if it’s not perfect. In the second one there is no choice to get a different one, but there is a choice not to buy one at all. In the third one there is no choice in any way.

              • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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                11 hours ago

                You’re completely missing the point. Whether or not you buy a car that doesn’t have seatbelts, it’s still a good idea for cars to have seatbelts. The criticism of individual choice is irrelevant, it’s ad hominem.

                • Naich@lemmings.world
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                  7 hours ago

                  It’s the same point but my interpretation makes more sense. You don’t need a 4 panel comic for a simple criticism of ad hominem.

                  • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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                    7 hours ago

                    Your interpretation makes no sense at all. As if it’s just a random series of disconnected events as opposed to a clear line of reasoning critiquing the original point. Like, you can’t possibly believe that the author’s intent wasn’t to critique the original point, right? You even said as much.

    • yunxiaoli@sh.itjust.works
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      1 day ago

      There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. Silica mines alone prevent any phone from being ethical.

      • 4Robato@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        There’s different grades to things. It’s not black and white and some companies do more harmful stuff than others.

        There are reparable phones and reparable laptops, some companies try to push for it and if they don’t get people’s support they will disappear.

        We have even lost the ability to swap the batteries and the consumer can put pressure so some of this stuff doesn’t happen.

        • Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world
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          1 day ago

          I can still swap my battery. Got a earphone jack too.

          I had to deliberately seek this out, but it’s there.

          • 4Robato@lemmy.world
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            1 day ago

            Yeah for sure! That’s the way to go :)

            It might have sounded like I have an iPhone and that’s not the case. I said we lost the ability to swap batteries as a way to say the market is going there. As you said you have to look for it now when it was by default in the beginning.

            But if we simply accept it we will lose it, we have to try to promote companies that care for the user and avoid the ones who don’t as you do!

      • yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de
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        24 hours ago

        Just because there is no ethical consumption does not imply all consumption is equally unethical.

        As an extreme example: Paying for CSAM directly supports those who produce it and is several magnitudes more unethical than paying an OnlyFans model.