They cannot be trusted, that much we know. We need to become independent and not reliant
Existing provokes Trump.
We shouldn’t have caved back in the Arrow days.
Bring back the avro arrow. Let’s do it.
As should europe. Clearly you can’t trust the USA anymore. What is the long-term prospect for spare parts?
From what I’ve heard you need a password that changes on the daily to start a F-35 and that the US are the only ones that can provide it. If that is true, it’s a tremendous oversite for any sovereign state.
wait…WHAT??? it doesn’t sound unlikely (tesla can be disabled remotely by tesla), but why would you buy it in such case? That’s why I voted the piracy party a couple of times. Not because I fully agree, but just to get people with at least some IT knowledge in
There’s no way that’s true, right?
Quick search seems to say that US planes might have the code thing but exported planes don’t. Although they do have control over updates and the code for everyone except for Israel that requested access to the code before buying.
and could we ever trust Canada or Europe? doubt it duh
Yes we can. - an actual patriotic American not in a cult
Idiot moron piece of shit retard. Go give Putin a footmassage and the keys to your house you bootlicking degenerate creature.
Where do your doubts come from? Please be specific.
“No u” come on with the childish shit. Yes we could trust Europe you dumb dumb. America literally wouldn’t exist without French support but you wanna be a contrarian so bad you just ignore everything and type out this moronic dribble
You can even look into much closer history - look at the participants of Enduring Freedom. Nice to see how respected the life’s of our citizens, who died in Afghanistan or elsewhere, are to people like that.
Spoken like someone from the very very shallowest side of the gene pool. You’re a mouth and an anus and not much else.
Kindly - shut up. All those countries you don’t trust followed America into Afghanistan, many into other wars. All lost citizens in support of American and joint interests, we did our part, as allies should. Guess we now know who is the real untrustworthy partner, and I doubt any of us will forget the betrayal anytime soon.
I hope your country survives people like you
Fak u
We should throw some cash at Saab and see if they can come up with a stealth gripen or something.
Careful, that’s how you end up with cool sedans and hatchbacks.
Europe already has a program for a 6th gen in the works for 2040 or 2050. Saab should join it! However in the meanwhile the gripen-e is an excellent aircraft yes.
The aircraft has significant security risks for sure and makes sense to cancel. But canceling the order won’t be on Trump’s radar unless it affects his inner circle of evil billionaires who have funneled dark money to him.
Canada should cancel the F-35 contract and their are better fighter jets from reliable NATO allies. The F-35 is a $2 trillion USD turd that is still not 100%. If Canada continues to purchase US weapons, this would be like Poland buying weapons from Nazi Germany. I am hoping the US MIC becomes pissed off.
2 trillion is a fuckload of drones!
Goddamn right we should. Take the French up on the offer to build the Rafale here. Or the Swedes. And get a few demo units for short term.
Fuck 'em on any cancellation fees too. Consider it partial compensation for the ridiculous trade war.
There was an article last week discussing how that plane calls home every day and that it can be blocked by the Americans. They can shut all of them down within 24 hours.
Time to nope right out of that contract.
None of those airplanes even have similar capabilities. Why do you think the entirety of Europe has ordered so many F-35.
The only alternative is to wait 15+(realistically 20+) years for a 6gen plane from Europe. And with the alliance dying, who knows how much longer it will take now
Rafale and Gripen are more expensive and in many ways, less good. There is a reason why noone is buying them, or even if they did, they still want to buy more F-35.
Both are cheaper than F35… Do you have an access to the internet? The reason people were buying US planes is they thought the US walked the talk. They clearly don’t, so they won’t sell those anymore.
Alliance isn’t dying, just the US isn’t really part of it anymore. The need for alliance is all the more stronger and it’s imperative to remove all dependency on the US defense industry within that alliance. The US dropping military aid for Ukraine proves the US is a dishonourable country and shouldn’t be trusted for anything anymore. By all indications, the US is surrendering to Russia because Trump is afraid of Putin.
The capabilities of the F-35 only represents the capability of an adversary now. We should use the ones we have to develop radar systems so we can shoot them down, and reverse engineer it’s capabilities to improve the fighter aircraft produced by the free world (which no longer includes the US).
F35 is far more expensive to operate, so you end up paying more over the lifetime if you actually use it.
Of course the other aircraft don’t have a bunch of fancy features of the F35, but maybe we don’t need them, particularly in light of the US hostility and unpredictability. And the benefit of building our own is a factor as well.
As I undertand it, the F35 has only about 55% readiness and suffers SW problems as well.
The US is not the only game in town, and we need to be clear about that.
It is a little princessy(what stealth aircraft isnt) but it doesnt cost that much to run. It only requires specialized facilities.
F-35 readiness is on par with other comparable planes and will only get better (superior to other fighters) the more infrastructure is built. You would be shocked if you saw the readiness levels of other planes but that doesnt sell.
It is important to note that much of the bad reputation of the f-35 is because
- Outdated data from early development of the plane. The F-16(or any plane), the (currently) cheap, reliable and available workhorse had an even worse start.
- Because there is free press in the West, you hear about everything that goes wrong. This is not the case for planes from authoritarian countries.
- A lot of the misinformation comes and/or is amplified literally from enemy state propaganda.
- A lot of the issues of the F-35 are about the vertical takeoff variant(F-35B). Or about a new updated version(block) of the F-35 that is still in testing.
- “F-35 bad” is(though less so nowadays) an internet meme. I am still waiting for the internet to explain how this terrible fighter can do 20 to 1 kill ratio vs non stealth planes in exercises.
Ask yourself why is the F-35 the best selling fighter. Why is noone buying F-15, F-18 or F-16. Those planes still sell but on much more limited quantities and mostly because F-35 production cant catch up with demand(or because not all american allies are allowed to buy the F-35).
Now obviously if America is hostile to Europe, shit is gonna get really weird. While the Rafale and Gripen are capable planes, they cannot replace the F-35.
Look what is happening in Ukraine. The air space is extremely hostile to non stealth planes. This is the kind of environment that the F-35 can fight in, though ideally you want B2 to bomb most antiair defenses. Non stealth aircraft can fight too but it is infinitely risker and with significantly reduced capabilities.
The F-35 is the start of a new doctrine(for non american airforces), not just a plane.
The critical tradeoff is not F35 or a worse plane. The critical tradeoff is American or not.
You forgot to mention the difference in maintenance costs. The F-35 is the most expensive fighter jet not only to acquire but also to maintain. It’s a money pit. It’s beautiful and 6th gen and all that’s grand. But it’s not good enough to justify the difference in prices.
Why do you think the entirety of Europe has ordered so many F-35.
The reason for Germany is that other aircraft, by choice, have not been certified for use with US nuclear weapons.
Nuke capability is irrelevant for most countries(rafale has a nuke capable variant, though only for French nukes). Take a look at its operators
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II_operators
Everyone who can get it(allied to the US), has already ordered it or will soon. The only exceptions are Sweden and France, who wanted to maintain some degree of strategic independence and not lose their jet fighter building capability. And Spain, though Spain was also kinda thinking of getting F-35 too(before Trump).
Canada was like Sweden and France, they could manufacture capable planes. But this is immensely expensive. Thats why Canada(and most countries) stopped doing it. This is why the F-35 is cheap, economies of scale, and why countries are willing to wait 5+ years to get it(while rafale and Gripen are basically readily available).
Europe wanted to coast through 5gen planes by using the F-35 while skipping ahead and developing, 2 completely different apparently, 6gen planes by 2040ish.
Rafales are not readily available, the factories have a huge order backlog.
The gripen is more agile than the f35 and capable of austere landings. Arguably more important traits than the ability to carry American nukes.
Being agile is kinda irrelevant if one can detect, lock and launch missiles tens of kilometers before the other plane can even detect it. Real life is not Top Gun. This is why everyone is buying the F-35.
There is a reason why China is spending billions designing and making stealth fighters, bombers and drones.
Agility isnt useless but it is highly overrated mostly by Russia, because they cant afford to produce(in relevant quantities) a stealth plane.
Russia has a different approach to the problem: Very aggressive jamming. Sure, you can see them before they can see you, but those missiles are gonna be much less effective at tracking and destroying targets.
Stealth is being as quiet as possible, Russian jets are so damn “loud” that you don’t know which target is the real one.
Once within range for a more traditional dogfight it’s basically a coin toss, mostly down to the pilots and the reliability of the plane’s hardware.
They buy F35 because the US is the premier supplier of arms for NATO bar none.
The US can remotely disable them whenever they damn well please anyway, and can not be trusted not to.
Everyone should be canceling their orders immediately, and disable the remote access capabilities to the ones they have.
Nobody should have ever purchased military equipment with that feature.
Has it actually been confirmed they can do this? I would assume they backdoor them, but usually backdoors are secret.
They require software updates for every mission, that are distributed from the US.
You can probably fly / use it without those, but you lose all the advanced command & control features
Let me guess… microsoft designed it.
“It’s military-grade”
« You need to take off RIGHT NOW! » « I can’t . Upgrade in progress ! »
Post on TechHelp:
"I keep hearing the missile connecting and disconnecting.
Has anyone got the latest driver for a Sidewinder AIM-9L?"
They don’t function without phoning home to a US-controlled server every 24 hours.
We keep telling them Always online is stupid, but do they listen?
Give is to Empress, she’ll knock out a crack in no time.
Razor 1911
Well shit that’s an easy fix. Redirect it to your server.
You have the private keys?
I’m willing to bet a country, especially ones involved in the production, aren’t going to have too much trouble.
Some high ranking US intelligence dude said something along the lines of that yeah. I dont think anyone has hacked into one of them to check or reverse engineer the code tho.
It’s several millions of lines of code, and it gets a lot harder to follow once compiled, so that would be a big project.
American here. Who cares if it provokes Trump? Actions have consequences. Canada helped out a lot during 911. What did we do? Prove to be an unreliable partner
100% TODAY! Do not pay a fucking dime of any amount owing for these. (good job on Globe and Mail for a change)
FYI, the Israeli version of F35 does not have this “US permission for every flight required”
F35 is a POS plane, with low uptime, in addition to “broken ownership”. Even US military does not get manuals on how to repair/maintain them and must hire Lockheed consultants to do the job. The whole program was a boondoggle to pay Lockheed the most money possible instead of getting good military equipment, and any corrupt POS that was involved in approving this purchase for Canada should be jailed for treason.
There’s nothing stopping Canada from getting the manuals and patching the software. Most of the FUD about it’s performance abilities is propaganda. So getting them and just locking out Lockheed and the US would be a pretty good middle finger too.
The performance metrics are criticisize by US military journals.
There’s nothing stopping Canada from getting the manuals and patching the software.
If US military can’t get them or patch the software, Canada can’t either. Israel is special for not putting up with US BS.
I haven’t seen that. I’ve only seen blogs saying stuff. And if you have the literal hardware in your hands then changing the software isn’t going to be hard as a country.
8m lines of source code for F35 OS, afaiu. Vendor is intentionally crippling your access/functionality, and USMCA calls that “proper pro business attitude”. Again, Lockheed has accomodated Israel in not crippling their version. It’s not as though you have open source hardware to which to code your own OS ontop.
Only dumping the POS is appropriate. Call it a negotiation position.
That’s not an unusual amount of code for programming.
This is the one that starved pilots of oxygen, right?
That was the F-22 and it was over a decade ago. The problem has since been fixed.
With tariffs hammering F-35 sales, I expect the next Eurofighter project will have a lot more resources. I wonder if Canada will get involved.
Sweden also offered to get us building our own Gripens totally locally. The page for the bid is even still up
I assume we already have pilots trained in flying the F-35 at this point, which sucks if we’re never getting them, though.
This would be amazing for us to bring back military building here in Canada!!
Especially since the Americans are the ones who convinced us they had enough fighter jets to take care of us so we could/should cancel the Arrow. :/
I mean, there was also the issue of it just costing a lot as the Diefenbaker conservative government was looking to make cuts.
Absolute bozo move to not go for this in retrospect. They need to give this a look again asap
If I had hair, I definitely would have been pulling it out at the time. It’s not like this situation came out of nowhere, but normalcy bias won the day.
Any NATO member increasing their military spending would be idiotic to spend their money with US-based companies.
The PM agrees with The Globe and Mail once and now they think they’ll get two in a row?
