- cross-posted to:
- climate@slrpnk.net
- cross-posted to:
- climate@slrpnk.net
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It’s crazy to me that the highest populated countries that are most affected by it by that article (China and US) are contributing the most to it (unchecked capitalism) and still refuse see their connnection to their own discomfort
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/29/china-wind-solar-power-global-renewable-energy-leader
Not a China shill but I’m pretty sure they see the connection and have been investing heavily in renewables.
Bit of a stretch to say that they are “most affected by it” when there are pacific islands that are going to be sinking off the map pretty soon.
You might want to look into what China is doing. They definitely see their connection to emissions and are definitely doing something about it.
Do you have links to show what they’re doing? Because as far as I was aware, the only climate issues they’re trying to fix is air pollution in big cities like Hong Kong. I haven’t seen anything about them trying to save the planet.
Have a look at this and look at the links inside for more info: https://web.archive.org/web/20230716192140/https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1680243524124516352.html
People will bring up coal to challenge the argument that China is serious about taking climate change. China is building many new coal plants, which seems counterintuitive. I, and I’m sure they, would prefer not to. But they’re not quite ready to fully transition off, so the next best thing is upgrading then. If you look into the details, they’re replacing old plants with incredibly efficient ones. Here’s a separate link about that: https://www.americanprogress.org/article/everything-think-know-coal-china-wrong/
We had a bit of a discussion about all this, here: https://lemmygrad.ml/post/971810
Edit: China is also building high speed rail to help other countries transition away from cars and old, inefficient rail. E.g. in Indonesia: https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202208/1273572.shtml and in Laos: https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/china-laos-open-6-billion-high-speed-rail-link-2021-12-03/ . This is part of global plans, such as the BRI (Belt and Road Initiative).
There are environmental concerns with BRI, e.g. https://doi.org/10.1177/21582440221078836 and https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2020/02/the-potential-climate-consequences-of-chinas-belt-and-roads-initiative/ . The World Bank’s view is negative-to-mixed: https://www.worldbank.org/en/topic/regional-integration/brief/belt-and-road-initiative .
It must me remembered, however, that many if not most of the states that China is working with aren’t even close to their ‘fair share’ of global emissions: https://doi.org/10.1016/S2542-5196(22)00044-4 . As the tech improves, the emissions attached to BRI development will reduce.
“Undeniably”. Ha. I wish. I’m sure people will still manage to deny climate change, especially those most responsible.
So what? Not like there is anything anyone of of us can do about it. And our politicians don’t give a F as long as oil companies pay their bills.
Given capital strikes are a thing, simply not taking money doesn’t mean they are immune the influence of those entrenched interest groups. But it’s certainly better than outright corruption.
PetroDragonic Apocalypse incoming
undeniably. I do not think that word means what you think it means.
i had the same thought: NPR did a story on alaskan pipelayers & plumbers that were starting to experience the effects of climate change on the soil about 15-is years ago and then revisited them again about 5-ish years ago. in the first set of interviews from 15 years ago, a big majority refused to attribute the issues that they were experiencing to climate change and in the second set 5 years ago, they nearly unanimously refused to attribute the issues to climate change.
climate change is now politics and any and all politics will be denied if you want it bad enough
Alright. So. Now what?
Now you work to change the rules of society so that we can stop adding greenhouse gases to the atmosphere, and limit the amount of additional warming we see.
At the risk of sounding doomerish, nothing will change until it’s too late or there’s a revolution and heads roll.
The current heat right now is pure torture.
Not a Climate Change denier but it feels weird that scientists who projected climate change to take a few decades to really fuck us is suddenly melting the planet.
Right after a pandemic, while AI is killing jobs and a war between Ukraine and Russia can officially escalate to WW3 any day.
Well they projected it to take a few decades… a few decades ago
Since the 70s. 50 years ago.
Jimmy Carter make a speech about it. Everyone laughed at him and called him a pussy.
And again when al gore warned everyone with uncomfortable truth in 2006
With an Inconvenient* Truth.
An uncomfortable truth would have been in the backseat of a Volkswagen (that’s a Mall Rats joke for anyone keeping track at home).
The Kyoto Protocol was negotiated in the nineties. But we had lots of time then, so no rush…
Back when I was young and naive I figured the Kyoto Protocol would work. We had lots of time then. The climate change is a hoax thing didn’t really take off until the early aughts as I recall.
To my knowledge, there had been an understanding that scientists were being fairly conservative with their statements of how bad things were going to get, and how fast it was going to happen.
I know of two primary drivers for this (which I am somewhat oversimplifying for brevity):
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Scientists really didn’t want to get it wrong by saying X will definitely happen by year Y, and then be wrong, thus giving ammunition to climate deniers and vested interests running counter-PR such as oil companies.
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Scientists didn’t want to paint a picture of unstoppable, inevitable doom that no person could possibly imagine a way for them to fix, or contribute to fixing, thus leading to the mindset of ‘if there’s no way to stop it why even try?’.
For your first point, I’d just like to add that the scientists didn’t give conservative estimates to stay clear of conspiracy theorists, but to stay clear of criticisms of fellow scientists. If there’s insufficient data to back up the claims a researcher makes, you can bet the other researchers will always beat the conspiracy theorists in calling out the bullshit.
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That’s the whole point. They’re surprised that it’s happening so fast. The acceleration at which things are happening has gone far beyond anything they predicted. My local area hit 40°C a couple of days ago, the highest recorded temperature on record since we started taking temperatures. We’ve had constant temperatures in the high 30s for the past 2 weeks. I can’t remember temperatures this high and I’m almost in my fifth decade on our little blue dot. The icebergs that we see every year failed to show up this year because of the large amount of melt happening in the Arctic, something I can’t remember seeing in my lifetime. I know what I’m saying is all anecdotal but there’s also plenty of evidence supporting global atmospheric warming that’s backed up by scientific data.
I live in the southern hemisphere so we have winter right now. By European standards our winters are “warm”. Last week we had a few really cold days to the point where it snowed. I have never experienced snow in my 30 years being alive.
some warm innit b’y
Emissions haven’t been constant over those few decades; fossil fuel burning has been rising about 3% each year, so that half the cumulative CO2 emissions since the industrial revolution have happened since the early 1980s.. That’s what took us from “predicted change” to “crisis” now instead of at some earlier time.
economic growth baby.
the climate changes greatly improve the likelyhood of extreme events, going from once in a million years to once every few years.
deleted by creator
I bet you they are as surprised as you are…
Nothing gets me more depressed than climate crisis these days tbh…
This is what happens when the developed world spends 150 years rejecting the most advanced scientific theory for fear that if the working class gets hold of it they’ll have a revolution.
The theory being dialectical materialism. It’s unsurprising that China, one of the five states explicitly led by DiaMat, have been acting as fast as possible to wean off fossils.
The speed at which things are changing – and this year’s changes won’t be the last – makes perfect sense to dialectical materialists. The transformation of quantity into quality is built into this worldview. What’s hard to predict is when a quantitative change will become a transformative leap in quality. The fact of the leap is not in question, however.
Meanwhile, in most of the rest of the world, most participants in the debate are still operating under the illusion that change is linear. For people who think that things will just get a bit worse every year, what’s a little distracting war in the grand scheme of things, and what does it matter if a pandemic is left to run free?
Life is cheap and there will always be a little more time in the schedule – to get ‘back to normal’ – before we tackle emissions properly, think the decision-makers. Except it’s precious and there is no spare time. Unless westerners get their act together and challenge imperialism, we better hope that dedollarisation leads to demilitarisation so people can concentrate on healing the world. Otherwise, we’ll be looking back at this year’s weather with the starry eyes of nostalgia.
