This is the huge problem with the optics of Libertarianism as a whole. Thats why Liberal Progressive is a more common term because the right wing co-opts libertarian arguments in a pro-corporate way.
Running red lights has a victim when someone gets hit in an intersection.
I’m talking about shit like laws against cannabis, where there are no victims at all, or against prostitution, where the presumed victims are the ones who get prosecuted.
Because by running a red light you endanger other road users because you’re acting unpredictability and you disrupt the flow of traffic which ultimately creates congestion (more hazardous plus wastes time and resources).
Is it a crime to fire a legally owned gun in a built up neighborhood, even if it doesn’t harm or otherwise interfere with anyone? Is it a crime to to drive above the posted speed limit even if you’re the only person on the road?
Obviously it is currently illegal to expose bystanders to risk, and in the eyes of the law those exposed bystanders are the victims.
You can argue semantics and say that there’s no victim if they’re just being exposed to risk, but that’s contrary to the logic on which the rest of society functions.
Equally obvious, no such bystander is exposed to risk due to an individuals choice to smoke weed, ergo there is no victim (nor any argument presented that there is).
There is always risk. Having easily accessible weed increases the risk that people will operate vehicles while high or increase number of beds needed in medical systems that refuse to increase beds as inhaling smoke increases cancer risk. I can drive through 100 red lights and never hit anyone but an increased demand for medical care in a system that can’t handle it puts me at risk also. I say running a red light is victimless just as smoking weed is also victimless and we have said victimless crimes should not be punishable.
But assuming you’re serious, consider the question of what would happen if everyone did it: traffic would be severely impacted all the time, and/or a lot of accidents would happen, resulting in lots of victims. Contrast that with smoking weed: we’ve seen what happens when it’s made legal, and it turns out nobody gets hurt as a result except when the people smoking weed are committing some other crime, like DWI.
Weed isn’t benign. It exasperates amd can induce psychotic mental health conditions much earlier in some people like schizophrenia and bipolar. It is carcinogenic. It does change people mentally affecting their emotional regulation and behaviors even when not high. There are impacts on already stretched health care systems. And what is wrong with wanting to argue. I want someone to give me good reason to think what constitutes a victimless crime isn’t some arbitrary line
You find the right argument but you failed to make the right conclusion.
Running a red light you are intentionally putting others lives at risk. If you run a red light on accident and you kill someone, it’s manslaughter. If you intentionally run a red light and kill someone its murder 2.
Yet there is no victim. You’re not a victim because the risk is higher.
Because then the argument changes to that there are victimless crimes that are reasonable to have and that on that scale everything from running red lights to drug use would be on it
In general, traffic violations are not technically crimes, they’re civil matters, therefore there doesn’t have to be a victim. Also burden of proof is much lower.
This is extremely vague with zero context.
Right? There’s a lot to criticize the US government for, but I’m pretty sure that this is already how things work. No idea what OP is on about
Why can’t I use explosives to fish?
Why is it illegal to spray people with gasoline?
If my company wants to dump toxins into the daycare, they should. There’s no laws for it.
There are actually laws for all of those FYI.
This has “park in handicap parking without stickers” energy
Lemmy.world isn’t exclusive to the USA, but still yeah I think deregulators are almost always the worst type of politician.
This also works as a corporate excuse to do whatever the hell they want to a community and the environment.
This is the huge problem with the optics of Libertarianism as a whole. Thats why Liberal Progressive is a more common term because the right wing co-opts libertarian arguments in a pro-corporate way.
DAMNIT THIS IS MERIKA I SHOULD HAVE A MISSILE LAUNCHER ON THE FRONT YARD BEN WASHINGTON WROTE IT IN THE CONSTITUTION
Don’t forget James Hancock, Thomas Madison, and John Jefferson!
Dude, I’m pretty sure it’s Steve Madison.
founding randos
I’m quite sure it was George Jefferson…
Laws against victimless crimes come to mind.
How far down before you don’t care about victims.
Technically running red lights are victimless
Running red lights has a victim when someone gets hit in an intersection.
I’m talking about shit like laws against cannabis, where there are no victims at all, or against prostitution, where the presumed victims are the ones who get prosecuted.
So then why am I charged if I haven’t hit anyone
Because by running a red light you endanger other road users because you’re acting unpredictability and you disrupt the flow of traffic which ultimately creates congestion (more hazardous plus wastes time and resources).
So its a crime to increase risk to society?
There isn’t a victim. Just the possible increased risk.
Is it a crime to fire a legally owned gun in a built up neighborhood, even if it doesn’t harm or otherwise interfere with anyone? Is it a crime to to drive above the posted speed limit even if you’re the only person on the road?
Obviously it is currently illegal to expose bystanders to risk, and in the eyes of the law those exposed bystanders are the victims.
You can argue semantics and say that there’s no victim if they’re just being exposed to risk, but that’s contrary to the logic on which the rest of society functions.
Equally obvious, no such bystander is exposed to risk due to an individuals choice to smoke weed, ergo there is no victim (nor any argument presented that there is).
There is always risk. Having easily accessible weed increases the risk that people will operate vehicles while high or increase number of beds needed in medical systems that refuse to increase beds as inhaling smoke increases cancer risk. I can drive through 100 red lights and never hit anyone but an increased demand for medical care in a system that can’t handle it puts me at risk also. I say running a red light is victimless just as smoking weed is also victimless and we have said victimless crimes should not be punishable.
I get the feeling you just want to argue.
But assuming you’re serious, consider the question of what would happen if everyone did it: traffic would be severely impacted all the time, and/or a lot of accidents would happen, resulting in lots of victims. Contrast that with smoking weed: we’ve seen what happens when it’s made legal, and it turns out nobody gets hurt as a result except when the people smoking weed are committing some other crime, like DWI.
Weed isn’t benign. It exasperates amd can induce psychotic mental health conditions much earlier in some people like schizophrenia and bipolar. It is carcinogenic. It does change people mentally affecting their emotional regulation and behaviors even when not high. There are impacts on already stretched health care systems. And what is wrong with wanting to argue. I want someone to give me good reason to think what constitutes a victimless crime isn’t some arbitrary line
If I shoot you with a gun but fail, why do I get arrested if I haven’t hit anyone?
Intent?
I haven’t attempted to kill anyone running a red light. So where is the harm
The harm is that you can seriously harm someone. Like driving drunk.
Are you for real?? Does this not make sense in your head?
You find the right argument but you failed to make the right conclusion.
Running a red light you are intentionally putting others lives at risk. If you run a red light on accident and you kill someone, it’s manslaughter. If you intentionally run a red light and kill someone its murder 2.
Yet there is no victim. You’re not a victim because the risk is higher.
Because then the argument changes to that there are victimless crimes that are reasonable to have and that on that scale everything from running red lights to drug use would be on it
It’s called risk, look it up.
🤗 hugs bro
In general, traffic violations are not technically crimes, they’re civil matters, therefore there doesn’t have to be a victim. Also burden of proof is much lower.