Unfortunately, sending weapons to a genocidal government is a non-partisan issue at the moment. A large majority of Democrats still support sending aid to Israel.
Change starts from the ground, not the top. As nice as it would be to get someone who supports all the rational causes we do into power, democracy means that we have to get the rest of the voters onboard first.
Yeah I get that. It’s just fundamentally shit and I’m not convinced it’s good tactics. The court will make a preliminary ruling (probably in favour of South Africa) in a few weeks or so. It will be on record that Biden has supported a genocide.
Has Trump started calling Biden “Genocide Joe” yet? How do you think that is going to go? The last election was scarily close. What if Trump does his usual “ramble with no apparent plan” thing and makes some anti-Israel statement because of the obvious reality that we and even he can see clearly? I guess what I’m saying is that it’s kind of leaving him an open goal. What’s the point, again?
Has Trump started calling Biden “Genocide Joe” yet? How do you think that is going to go?
Poorly. If there’s anything his base hates more than liberals, it’s brown people and Muslims. Not only that, but the Israeli lobby is extremely strong in US politics.
The last election was scarily close. What if Trump does his usual “ramble with no apparent plan” thing and makes some anti-Israel statement because of the obvious reality that we and even he can see clearly?
You’re kidding, right? He’ll brag about how he would have given Israel so much more support than ‘Sleepy Joe’ and that he’s Israel’s best friend, the best president for Israel ever. Not only that, but making an anti-Israel statement would lose Trump more votes than it gains him - anti-Israel positions simply are not popular in the electorate currently.
This is the same guy that recognized Jerusalem as Israel’s capital despite objections from both sides of the aisle. Trump loves the Israeli far-right too much to turn against them on humanitarian grounds.
I guess what I’m saying is that it’s kind of leaving him an open goal. What’s the point, again?
For me, the point is that Biden is the best we are realistically gonna get at this point in time. If we magicked up an anti-Israel candidate to take his place, that would still leave the issue of anti-Israel policies remaining deeply unpopular with the electorate, and that candidate, subsequently, losing short of some equally magicked-up gilded tongue. In light of that, treating this as an issue to vote against Biden for, or abstain, is nothing more than handing over the presidency to Trump for no other reason than that the vast majority of voters disagree with you and you’re upset about that (generic you, not specific you). It’s not ‘teaching’ a candidate or the party anything. It’s not contributing to a change in policy. It’s not even a meaningful objection to ongoing policy, since it’s an effective contribution to the candidate who is unambiguously worse on the subject of Israeli support.
This kind of logic doesn’t work here on Lemmy. Say what you will about Reddit, but at least you could say reasonable shit like this and get a reasonable discussion out of it there.
Here, you just get a bunch of kids willing to sacrifice the democracy of their country over issues in a country they mostly know nothing about.
but that’s what the post is saying. Yes, we know Trump is a fucking maroon, but saying that to Trump voters doesn’t work.
The post is asking “Do you to tell them Trump sucks and they vote for Trump anyway, or do you want to lead with policy and potentially change their mind?”
Consider you’re using an app, which you like, and someone says “Oh that app sucks.” You’d think “ok guy!” But if someone said “oh if you like that app you should check out this one, it has twice the functions, and all these quality of life improvements, and it’s more secure and doesn’t have any ads” you’d think “my guy!”
Biden is a far better president and presidential candidate with progressive foreign and domestic policies that have tangibly and practically helped hundreds of millions of people.
So we already have that down.
Trump supporters and conservatives in general are clear that they don’t care about policy as much as they care about idolizing someone who hurts other people.
So I think it’s important that they know their candidate has been found liable for the extreme of hurting other people and actually committed rape.
If a conservative cares that much about hurting other people, it should be known widely and explicitly clear that they are supporting a rapist. That clashes more with their false, professed ideals than climate science they don’t believe in or sustainable resource management or a higher value currency.
Unless that person is voting for a rapist, say like trump.
Feel free to shame anyone voting for a rapist. People who vote for rapists should be ashamed of themselves.
Being a rapist is barely even in the top three awful things about Trump. That’s how bad he is.
Not sure sending weapons to a genocidal government is the best plan for keeping him out of the White House but hey what do I know
Unfortunately, sending weapons to a genocidal government is a non-partisan issue at the moment. A large majority of Democrats still support sending aid to Israel.
Change starts from the ground, not the top. As nice as it would be to get someone who supports all the rational causes we do into power, democracy means that we have to get the rest of the voters onboard first.
Yeah I get that. It’s just fundamentally shit and I’m not convinced it’s good tactics. The court will make a preliminary ruling (probably in favour of South Africa) in a few weeks or so. It will be on record that Biden has supported a genocide.
Has Trump started calling Biden “Genocide Joe” yet? How do you think that is going to go? The last election was scarily close. What if Trump does his usual “ramble with no apparent plan” thing and makes some anti-Israel statement because of the obvious reality that we and even he can see clearly? I guess what I’m saying is that it’s kind of leaving him an open goal. What’s the point, again?
Poorly. If there’s anything his base hates more than liberals, it’s brown people and Muslims. Not only that, but the Israeli lobby is extremely strong in US politics.
You’re kidding, right? He’ll brag about how he would have given Israel so much more support than ‘Sleepy Joe’ and that he’s Israel’s best friend, the best president for Israel ever. Not only that, but making an anti-Israel statement would lose Trump more votes than it gains him - anti-Israel positions simply are not popular in the electorate currently.
This is the same guy that recognized Jerusalem as Israel’s capital despite objections from both sides of the aisle. Trump loves the Israeli far-right too much to turn against them on humanitarian grounds.
For me, the point is that Biden is the best we are realistically gonna get at this point in time. If we magicked up an anti-Israel candidate to take his place, that would still leave the issue of anti-Israel policies remaining deeply unpopular with the electorate, and that candidate, subsequently, losing short of some equally magicked-up gilded tongue. In light of that, treating this as an issue to vote against Biden for, or abstain, is nothing more than handing over the presidency to Trump for no other reason than that the vast majority of voters disagree with you and you’re upset about that (generic you, not specific you). It’s not ‘teaching’ a candidate or the party anything. It’s not contributing to a change in policy. It’s not even a meaningful objection to ongoing policy, since it’s an effective contribution to the candidate who is unambiguously worse on the subject of Israeli support.
Too bad that a bunch of fucking morons are going on a media rampage BomberBiden, and absolutely handing Trump the election.
They better shut the fuck up when he wins because of it with thier “boo hoo, Trump is neglecting the whole world, genocide genocide!”
Yeah… Well we had a choice between a genocide enabler or a gigantic piece of shit, dictator wannabe AND genocide enabler…
This kind of logic doesn’t work here on Lemmy. Say what you will about Reddit, but at least you could say reasonable shit like this and get a reasonable discussion out of it there.
Here, you just get a bunch of kids willing to sacrifice the democracy of their country over issues in a country they mostly know nothing about.
but that’s what the post is saying. Yes, we know Trump is a fucking maroon, but saying that to Trump voters doesn’t work.
The post is asking “Do you to tell them Trump sucks and they vote for Trump anyway, or do you want to lead with policy and potentially change their mind?”
Consider you’re using an app, which you like, and someone says “Oh that app sucks.” You’d think “ok guy!” But if someone said “oh if you like that app you should check out this one, it has twice the functions, and all these quality of life improvements, and it’s more secure and doesn’t have any ads” you’d think “my guy!”
just some food for thought.
Biden is a far better president and presidential candidate with progressive foreign and domestic policies that have tangibly and practically helped hundreds of millions of people.
So we already have that down.
Trump supporters and conservatives in general are clear that they don’t care about policy as much as they care about idolizing someone who hurts other people.
So I think it’s important that they know their candidate has been found liable for the extreme of hurting other people and actually committed rape.
If a conservative cares that much about hurting other people, it should be known widely and explicitly clear that they are supporting a rapist. That clashes more with their false, professed ideals than climate science they don’t believe in or sustainable resource management or a higher value currency.
I don’t think this meme is supposed to be about Trump voters.