• jenesaisquoi@feddit.org
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    16
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    7 days ago

    Elections are unlawful in times of war.

    Also, the kremlins influence campaigns would have a field day with this.

    • AlteredEgo@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      19
      ·
      7 days ago

      Elections are unlawful in times of war.

      If that was true, the article and Zelensky surely would have said so.

      • AHemlocksLie@lemmy.zip
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        19
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        7 days ago

        Are you just mouthing off about what is and isn’t in the article without even checking? Because the article does in fact say so.

        As per Ukraine’s constitution, elections are suspended under martial law, which has remained in force since Russia launched its full-scale invasion in February 2022.

        • AlteredEgo@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          8
          ·
          7 days ago

          Thanks, I did read over that. But it’s still quite different from “unlawful”. It’s loaded language to preempt any discussion about democratic leadership. Clearly I’m not the only one thinking so, since at least Fedorov and quite a few protesters think so to.

          Elections are unlawful in times of war.

          per Ukraine’s constitution, elections are suspended under martial law

          • jenesaisquoi@feddit.org
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            7
            ·
            6 days ago

            Constitution says no elections during war. So holding elections is not in accordance with the constitution. In other words, unlawful.

          • AHemlocksLie@lemmy.zip
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            ·
            7 days ago

            Is it really that different? Either way, the government is forbidden to run and hold an election. You could get pedantic about the difference between at war and under martial law, but given this is a defensive war in which they’re under active invasion, they’re functionally identical because of course the country under invasion enacted martial law.

            • AlteredEgo@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              7 days ago

              I mean Fedorov thinks so, I imagine you would have to suspend martial law. Zelensky didn’t say it’s unlawful just that it would “destroy Ukraine”.

              I imagine it would quickly devolve into the question on whether “Ukraine should continue fighting until it wins the war” (24% in 2024) or “Ukraine should seek to negotiate an ending to the war as soon as possible” (69% in 2024). Obviously opinion could have changed quite a bit since then. And Fedorov doesn’t seem to be the peace negotiation type either.

              Should Ukrainians get a vote on that or not? If democracy is not for deciding such monumental questions, what is democracy for? Just saying “oh that’s unlawful for Ukrainians to vote” is I think a bit… different.

              Not that I think the terms Russia might dangle for a peace agreement would make for a good election platform lol. They want Ukraine to be neutral, reduce it’s army, and want to keep the territory they conquered. And would probably also not agree to a ceasefire because they believe it would give Ukraine the opportunity to regroup.

              But again impossible doesn’t mean unlawful.

              • AHemlocksLie@lemmy.zip
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                6 days ago

                Except not even Federov thinks so because if you click through to the source on his call for elections, he’s saying they basically need a way to hold elections, not that they have a way and aren’t using it.

                • AlteredEgo@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  6 days ago

                  I’m honestly not sure if this is just a power play which would be pretty insane, or something else. Someone mentioned this was about the strategy of using drones or how to use them or something. It’s probably impossible to know right now since both sides heavily obscure the reality of the situation.

            • AlteredEgo@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              3
              ·
              6 days ago

              It’s explicitly not true that it’s “unlawful” since they could suspend martial law and hold elections, or do some other kind of referendum. Personally I think it’s “common sense” that the Ukrainian people should get a voice in how to fight or end this war. See my other comment for further thoughts.

                • AlteredEgo@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  5 days ago

                  Fedorov said Ukraine needs a “safe and realistic mechanism” to hold elections during wartime that protects the voting rights of soldiers, Ukrainians abroad, and people in front-line regions.

                  • Siegfried@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    5 days ago

                    It’s like if you were actively avoiding to acknowledge the real reason why ukrainians shouldn’t have ellections right now. Thats where your common sense dies… that’s terrible cause i cant take your comments seriously.

                    “Safe and realistic”… you understand that having Russia on the border makes “safe and realistic ellections” an utopia?

      • You@feddit.org
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        7 days ago

        It’s not so easy when Russia’s spreading disinformation and Donald’s regurgitating it.

        But smart people write about Ukraine’s Constitutional Order in Wartime: Elections, Continuity, and Legitimacy

        The article’s conclusion:

        Wartime elections are neither a legal obligation nor a democratic necessity when they cannot be free, fair, or secure. Historical precedents confirm that elections are only feasible when security conditions allow, which is not the case in Ukraine’s current war. Meanwhile, the absence of elections does not mean the absence of legitimacy. Ukraine’s constitutional provisions, democratic consensus, and international recognition ensure that its government remains constitutionally legitimate, functional, and committed to democratic principles.

        Once martial law ends, Ukrainian authorities should fulfil their constitutional duty to hold elections, ensuring a seamless transition back to full democratic governance. This transition presents other unique challenges, from logistics to structuring the post-war electoral process – whether holding all elections simultaneously or sequencing presidential and parliamentary votes to uphold democratic principles. But until then, Ukraine’s leadership remains fully legitimate under both constitutional law and international recognition. Calls to question this legitimacy ignore Ukraine’s constitutional safeguards, historical precedent, and the security necessity of stable wartime governance.