Very cool how neoliberals and libertarians are being annoying weirdos and nonchalantly defending Joe Biden as he continues to support the Palestinian genocide
Very cool how neoliberals and libertarians are being annoying weirdos and nonchalantly defending Joe Biden as he continues to support the Palestinian genocide
this entire thread was removed because the mod believed that third comment, that it was an astroturfing attempt.
which i get, even though it was a mistake, i guess it’s an understandable mistake.
but it’s nevertheless depressing. i personally don’t stand by the “genocide joe” mantra but i am staunchly with those voting uncommitted. and i hate to see people doing their best in the face of genocide being condemned as fascist.
I’m really bummed out by 196 getting flooded with assholes trying to make bad faith or stupid arguments for standing with Joe Biden, we’re all on the same side here, we don’t want Trump elected but if Biden keeps supporting the Israeli genocide of Gaza then he’s going to lose regardless of whether or not people vote for him
Really? Because all I’ve seen on 196 are people making bad the faith argument seen in this very post.
This is where the disagreement comes in. This sentence implies that a very significant percentage of Democratic voters will either vote Trump or stay home if Biden doesn’t make a hard left turn against Israel’s actions. But that doesn’t seem to reflect reality.
Most American democratic voters are against the violence perpetuated against the Palestinians. And somehow, most Americans still support Israel. I don’t know how that makes sense either, but it’s true. There’s a LOT of americans very upset with what appears to be WH apathy about the genocide. But most Americans just don’t care that much about things that don’t affect them. They care way more about abortion rights, immigration, the “economy” and such and are more much likely to become apathetic about those than a genocide elsewhere.
I think the point is that Democrats are making absolutely no concessions to anyone who’s not extremely right-wing or pro-establishment. I understand the concept of damage control, but what I’ve seen leads me to believe that Democrats are willing to dismiss the concerns of any leftist or progressive, even using dehumanizing tactics like calling us “bots.”
I myself plan to protest in the primary but vote for whatever ghoul they put forward, but I can totally sympathize with people who can’t morally bring themselves to vote for someone who is actively contributing to a genocide, who is increasing the number of innocent refugees being imprisoned and deported at the southern border, and the like.
I think it’s also worth noting that committing genocide is never okay, no matter how many Americans think otherwise. What would happen to me if suddenly the majority wanted me in the “out group.” This is why we call it “fascism” – that’s not an exaggeration, it tracks with what Biden and our nation have been doing.
The uncommitted vote is an easy way to tally how many care enough to protest vote. In Michigan, where the messaging beyond the anti-genocide sphere was strongest (this movement has little money), almost 20% of the vote was “uncommitted”. That’s a significant portion of the Democrat base that cares enough to protest vote against genocide! Keep in mind there’s plenty of Democrats who oppose the genocide but wanted to show support for Biden as a whole. Support for ending the genocide is significant, and while the news orgs continually downplay it, for a large amount of voting Democrats it is clearly a priority to end the US-funded-and-supplied genocide of a people who literally cannot escape or be protected in any way.
And do not equate “supporting Israel” with “ending the genocide”. Israel have extensive strike capabilities and defensive capabilities including the Iron Dome, the Palestinians get entire housing units imploded in the blink of an eye. If the US did everything it could to force Israel to stop the genocide now, Israel as a country will continue to exist. If the US does not stop the genocide, the Palestinian people in Gaza will not continue to exist. When Israel attacks the bottom quarter of Gaza that is still standing yet holds almost all of the Palestinian people, the civilian casualties will be enormous since they’ve all been penned in there (hence this is termed a genocide).
You are correct on the general voting topic. All people, regardless of party affiliation, with any critical thinking skills are aware that Biden will be better than fascist Trump (for Gaza “complete the mission” and the US #insurrection) and come general will vote for Biden. I understand some want to “make him sweat” but that must be done in other protest venues as in the general it’s a binary choice between Biden and fascist-who-is-worse-on-literally-everything. So I am confident the vast majority of Democrats who voted uncommitted in the primary as a protest will vote Biden in the general, as any alternative does not make logical sense.
Any idea what mod it is?
no, my only source is the modlog which doesn’t identify the actors
Oh, you’re the person who responded to my message in that now-deleted post and I couldn’t figure out why I couldn’t see it anymore or respond to you. (I’m with you btw, we weren’t fighting lol) Thanks for this post because I thought either Lemmy was broken or I was using it incorrectly
hi i don’t remember you ! but glad to find comraderie and be of help :)
We were talking about the trolly metaphor. I wished there was a way to see my own posts that were deleted.
oh right! i have been meaning to make a visual version of that but i’ve just been out of energy for the day