Merkel: Das setzt aber voraus, auch zu sagen, was genau die Alternativen damals waren. Die 2008 diskutierte Einleitung eines Nato-Beitritts der Ukraine und Georgiens hielt ich für falsch. Weder brachten die Länder die nötigen Voraussetzungen dafür mit, noch war zu Ende gedacht, welche Folgen ein solcher Beschluss gehabt hätte, sowohl mit Blick auf Russlands Handeln gegen Georgien und die Ukraine als auch auf die Nato und ihre Beistandsregeln. Und das Minsker Abkommen 2014 war der Versuch, der Ukraine Zeit zu geben.
Anm. d. Red.: Unter dem Minsker Abkommen versteht man eine Reihe von Vereinbarungen für die selbst ernannten Republiken Donezk und Luhansk, die sich unter russischem Einfluss von der Ukraine losgesagt hatten. Ziel war, über einen Waffenstillstand Zeit zu gewinnen, um später zu einem Frieden zwischen Russland und der Ukraine zu kommen.
Sie hat diese Zeit hat auch genutzt, um stärker zu werden, wie man heute sieht.
(Translated):
Merkel: But that requires saying what exactly the alternatives were at the time. I thought the idea of Ukraine and Georgia joining NATO, which was discussed in 2008, was wrong. The countries did not have the necessary prerequisites for this, nor had the consequences of such a decision been fully considered, both with regard to Russia’s actions against Georgia and Ukraine and to NATO and its mutual assistance rules. And the Minsk Agreement in 2014 was an attempt to give Ukraine time.
Editor’s note: The Minsk Agreement is a series of agreements for the self-proclaimed republics of Donetsk and Luhansk, which had broken away from Ukraine under Russian influence. The aim was to gain time through a ceasefire in order to later achieve peace between Russia and Ukraine.
It also used this time to become stronger, as we can see today.
Ziel war, über einen Waffenstillstand Zeit zu gewinnen, um später zu einem Frieden zwischen Russland und der Ukraine zu kommen. Sie hat diese Zeit hat auch genutzt, um stärker zu werden, wie man heute sieht.
Maybe read the rest. Macht deine Position weniger peinlich.
I’m german, let me translate: “The goal was to achieve peace between Russia and Ukraine via a ceasefire. She (Ukraine is meant here) also used this time to get stronger (considering the context here being military conflict, it means stronger in the military sense.), as can be seen today.”
You’re just splitting hairs. They used the Minsk peace negotiations to buy time to prepare for war, “to become stronger”… and not for actual peace. This is a fact that you have to accept.
Later Hollande corroborated the admission.
“Yes, Angela Merkel is right on this point. Since 2014, Ukraine has strengthened its military posture. Indeed, the Ukrainian army was completely different from that of 2014. It was better trained and equipped. It is the merit of the Minsk agreements to have given the Ukrainian army this opportunity.”
The “merit” of peace agreements to prepare for war.
You mean “time to become stronger” i.e. prepare for war and not implement minsk II (why would you want to “become stronger” if not prepare for war; it’s in contradiction with implementing minsk)
They also used the time to become stronger. But that was not the goal of Minsk.
Yea it was to bring peace. Why would you want “to become stronger”, when part of the peace agreement was to become a buffer zone to NATO? Why else would the Russians else have signed it? How do you explain that with Merkel saying that it was just to buy time? Wouldn’t the Russians feel betrayed/played if it wasn’t implemented for peace, but just to stall them?
I did not get your point. Even with a treaty in place, why would Ukraine not trying to become stronger with the Russian threat?
Again, Merkel says quite clearly IMHO that it was for not escalating the conflict to get to peace, possibly then integrating Ukraine in the EU or NATO.
She said that they used the time to become stronger, not that this was the goal of Minsk. You are either reading into it what you want it to mean or you are repeating Russian propaganda.
No, that is disinformation. Show me the original interview where Merkel said that.
“Hatten Sie gedacht, ich komme mit Pferdeschwanz?”
Die Zeit
7. Dezember 2022
https://archive.md/c4ZVK
Merkel: Das setzt aber voraus, auch zu sagen, was genau die Alternativen damals waren. Die 2008 diskutierte Einleitung eines Nato-Beitritts der Ukraine und Georgiens hielt ich für falsch. Weder brachten die Länder die nötigen Voraussetzungen dafür mit, noch war zu Ende gedacht, welche Folgen ein solcher Beschluss gehabt hätte, sowohl mit Blick auf Russlands Handeln gegen Georgien und die Ukraine als auch auf die Nato und ihre Beistandsregeln. Und das Minsker Abkommen 2014 war der Versuch, der Ukraine Zeit zu geben. Anm. d. Red.: Unter dem Minsker Abkommen versteht man eine Reihe von Vereinbarungen für die selbst ernannten Republiken Donezk und Luhansk, die sich unter russischem Einfluss von der Ukraine losgesagt hatten. Ziel war, über einen Waffenstillstand Zeit zu gewinnen, um später zu einem Frieden zwischen Russland und der Ukraine zu kommen. Sie hat diese Zeit hat auch genutzt, um stärker zu werden, wie man heute sieht.
(Translated): Merkel: But that requires saying what exactly the alternatives were at the time. I thought the idea of Ukraine and Georgia joining NATO, which was discussed in 2008, was wrong. The countries did not have the necessary prerequisites for this, nor had the consequences of such a decision been fully considered, both with regard to Russia’s actions against Georgia and Ukraine and to NATO and its mutual assistance rules. And the Minsk Agreement in 2014 was an attempt to give Ukraine time. Editor’s note: The Minsk Agreement is a series of agreements for the self-proclaimed republics of Donetsk and Luhansk, which had broken away from Ukraine under Russian influence. The aim was to gain time through a ceasefire in order to later achieve peace between Russia and Ukraine. It also used this time to become stronger, as we can see today.
Exactly. She said to give Ukraine time to mature for an entry to NATO. Not to prepare for war with Russia. That is disinformation.
Maybe read the rest. Macht deine Position weniger peinlich.
I’m german, let me translate: “The goal was to achieve peace between Russia and Ukraine via a ceasefire. She (Ukraine is meant here) also used this time to get stronger (considering the context here being military conflict, it means stronger in the military sense.), as can be seen today.”
You’re just splitting hairs. They used the Minsk peace negotiations to buy time to prepare for war, “to become stronger”… and not for actual peace. This is a fact that you have to accept.
Later Hollande corroborated the admission.
The “merit” of peace agreements to prepare for war.
You mean “time to become stronger” i.e. prepare for war and not implement minsk II (why would you want to “become stronger” if not prepare for war; it’s in contradiction with implementing minsk)
She doesn’t say anything about „stronger.“
They also used the time to become stronger. But that was not the goal of Minsk.
Yea it was to bring peace. Why would you want “to become stronger”, when part of the peace agreement was to become a buffer zone to NATO? Why else would the Russians else have signed it? How do you explain that with Merkel saying that it was just to buy time? Wouldn’t the Russians feel betrayed/played if it wasn’t implemented for peace, but just to stall them?
I did not get your point. Even with a treaty in place, why would Ukraine not trying to become stronger with the Russian threat? Again, Merkel says quite clearly IMHO that it was for not escalating the conflict to get to peace, possibly then integrating Ukraine in the EU or NATO.
why would you keep lying when you’ve already been exposed lying. 🤦
She said that they used the time to become stronger, not that this was the goal of Minsk. You are either reading into it what you want it to mean or you are repeating Russian propaganda.
Look at a mirror holy god
You’re either completely lack reading comprehension or intentionally repeating NATO propaganda.
FYI I got some lightly used straws for sale if you need more of them to grasp at