“Okay, so both parties are bad, but what else can we do other than vote?”
There are going to be a lot of disenfranchised liberals that have lost faith in electoralism. Rather than allow the people to fall into doomerism or denial, what advice would you give people who are realising that western democracies are broken and that voting for the lesser evil is impossible? What action would you tell them to take?
Build stronger support networks through your community and do the small things that are achievable with them. Help slightly larger groups and pressure them to do good things with their bigger numbers.
You’re not going to accomplish any politically relevant actions on your own, but you can organize a group of people around a shared hobby, like a knitting circle, D&D group, boardgame group, or whatever. Your little hobby group can all chip in to feed people at a homeless camp once a month - that hobby group now has the skills to help a local union make it through a strike. The local union that owes your hobby group a favor can be pressured into campaigning against a local DA who’s causing problems for the homeless community. That union is now a relevant force in local politics. You probably don’t have any ability to sway that any more, but the local union with political clout can chip in to larger causes.
People need to stop living in this fantasy world where a great leader unites everyone behind the right cause and we start fixing things. Nobody has ever done that shit. You can’t convince a billion people to do something one at a time, and even if you did, they wouldn’t know what to do with themselves. Change requires existing networks of organized people who know how to do something other than sit on their thumbs, who can be convinced an entire group at a time. Nothing can be done while everyone is sitting around atomized, but that is a problem that’s actually within your grasp to fix.
Fantastic, that’s great advice
Seriously though, you just have to point out that both parties want this status quo
Most people want change, they just don’t understand the framework of how we can achieve that change
These are the days when we as principled Marxists/Anarchists/Posadists need to stand up and point out that the disconnect between the will of the people and the actions of their government is intentional
That the wealthy and powerful have always acted in their interests as opposed to the good of all people and the world
It’s only going to get worse if we don’t
And remind everyone how essential “essential workers” are, and how so many weak links in the supply chain can be snapped through strikes and direct action. Yes, we’ve seen how weak U.S. unions are, especially when it comes to showing any goddamned solidarity, but it’s still where we have to start.
probably the only way to change things. Voting R or D, or 3rd party, or not voting isn’t revolutionary in the current system. Vote for the tangible benefits that are realistic in this system and then organize outside of electoralism.
If you announce it ahead of time, the system can react to it. You have to hit them when and where they don"t expect it. There isn’t going to be a mass “general strike” that is planned. It has to be reactionary and organic. Then do it over and over and over with each outrage. That is how solidarity is built. I thought they’d do with with the rail strike but major union leadership in this country is cucked AF to the political system and
defanged it all.Cordnation and solidarity building yes. But doing known things announced years ahead will be met with a brick wall that the system can anticipate and deflect.
It must be done in reaction to the inevitable injustices in solidarity. You don’t announce to the owners - hey we’re going to do some disruption thing X years from now at this exact place and time. Just as a massive heads up. That’s what is called giving away your leverage and game. It is not how wars are fought.
Edit of course it’s the fucking UAW. They are the ones who sicked the secret service on me for daring to hold a NO TPP sign up during Obama’s speech at the 2016 convention. They are a bunch of
s . Now you got 
kissing a genocider’s butt walking around and endorsing 
I’m not saying this general strike will lead to revolution. I’m saying this is something to direct people toward other than voting, and in this case the planned announcement is necessarily baked in - this is a call for unions to coordinate the timing of their contract negotiations. Is there a way to do that without “doing known things announced years ahead”? Obviously the ruling class will fight back. I expect that everyone involved in this knows that as well as we do.
Besides, planning for something like this will necessitate the expansion of strike funds, bail funds, support for new unions, and so on. Preparing for something like this will build an infrastructure that the unions do not currently have or provide. It will make actual spontaneous action more possible, and the fight to do it will make people more class conscious. Even minor victories will be helpful in that regard.
Wish them luck then. Hopefully they get something out of it beyond more
genocide endorsers.Here’s hoping.
Maybe I’m being too cynical here but I feel like America has essentially zero revolutionary potential. The entire population is heavily propagandized, all significant leftist groups have been dead for 50+ years, and for most Americans, things aren’t that bad. They’re getting worse, but compared to the situations that have historically spawned revolts (serfdom, mass starvation, etc) it’s not that close.
It’s possible in the future, but as of right now the other people in this thread are correct that local organizing and mutual aid is the most productive thing we can be doing.
Where did that lead you? Back to me
my man literally wrote the book on what is to be done
pokes the working class with a stick waake uuuup
Sorry, all outta boot straps. Just watch Rome burn now.
- Make sure they blame everything that is wrong on the rich and powerful (aka ruling class) and get them to hammer it into their minds that there is no way to vote the problems away and that they need to be militant against anyone spreading that idea.
- Get them to understand that marginalized peoples are in need of protection because the ruling class uses them to divide the rest of us. We need their support as much as they need ours. (if they can’t deal with this they might be fascists)
- Find likeminded individuals who are against the capitalist take over of government and against the use of marginalized people as scapegoats and identify and try to counter people who are looking for scapegoats.
- Introduce their anti-capitalist anti-bigot anti-electoral friends to each other.
If you can get a Lib to permanently reject electoralism, capitalism, racism and other bigotry as well as looking for other people who do the same they will eventually find socialism. There isn’t really anywhere else to go.
I’m tired of voting and the libs who shame me for not voting. I’m also tired of feeling powerless and overwhelmed by the state of things. I’m just going to keep doing my thing and help my local community by driving my bus then use the money I earn to contribute in mutual aid.
Are the genocidal capitalist’s in the room with us right now sweaty? Even if the president is a genocidal capitalist they can’t just make up laws do you even know how the 3 branches of government operate at a procedural level? Which party voted for genocidal capitalism?
burn down your local police station
"Real politics happens well before the elections, and that’s why you will never have good options. You are always choosing betweens presets which have long been decided, and which are not going to solve the climate, queer, women’s, etc issues.
We need to meet that political power before elections, then, to have any effect. But that requires understanding the systems which we are up against, or else we will only be doing the result-less protests of the past 40 years again.
You interested in learning more about the systems?"
This is a discussion which requires the active participation of the lib (them backing down at this point makes it obvious that they are not the target group for us).
It includes the things that are probably most important to a lib willing to listen (replace as needed with “wage problems” etc)
It shows that you’re not asking to do repeats of the unsuccessful movements of westerners in the past years (because libs would latch onto that and be started wrongly or fill up ranks with useless people).
Follow-up convos about how the problems are based in imperialism and capital.
Some third option may rise from the ashes but rest assured whatever it is will have been fostered by genocidal capitalists
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We get bragging rights on how anyone that supports them are consenting to genocide and good luck shaming 3rd parties now on.
Give them tickets to the Country is Over Party.
If the libs over on bluesky are representative they think that doing genocide is holding their noses, choosing the lesser evil and West Wing blah blah blah adults in the room whatever. They are still right, they still hold the “moral high ground”, etc.
If you’re like a normal American person, this genocide should supercede everything and you should be canvassing door to door telling people their no better than Eichman for voting for either party. Aside from adventures that all I got
What action would you tell them to take?
What is it they need? Where is the state currently failing to support them? Like, what would actually make a difference to people in the community?
I would suggest identifying that, and then building a community-based solution (if possible/appropriate).
Teach people how to hold power for themselves rather than begging for scraps from the political establishment.
Sure it’s easier said than done but that’s my antidote to electoralism.
