Im an Israeli anarchist, but I’m still going to try my best at explaining.
American liberals won’t ever appease leftists, or minorities, because they expect subservience and loyalty for nothing in return.
In so doing they play right into the fascists’ hands, trying to serve right wingers who already made their minds up in voting for a fascist.
It is very likely not only more leftists but more Muslim and arabic people would’ve voted for dems if it weren’t for dems insisting that kamala should keep supporting israel and that criticism is amount to betrayal.
As much as i despise electoralism, being an anarchist and all, it’s very simple to understand how and why this happened even from an electoralist perspective, makes one think maybe american liberals just don’t want to understand.
And before anyone says I’m talking out of my ass about american libs, as if i don’t know them because I don’t live in the states:
Know that they walk and talk just the same as israeli liberals, and these empty platitudes and threats of being a traitor are the same as i get at home.
If I’m understanding your comment correctly we’re more or less on the same page.
My question is not a literal question but me pointing out the paradox sucking up to Israel to “win the election” and then blaming pro-palestine voters after they lose the election.
Because in the coalition of Democratic voters and donors, there are also those who unconditionally support Israel, and they outnumber those who support the Palestinians.
Because they shouldn’t have beeded to be convinced. Trump was obviously the worse choice for Palestine. The most basic realpolitik shouldve told them to hold their nose. They are to blame for putting their ideals over the lives of everyone around them and even those they want to save.
Ok you go say that to their faces. Tell them they should suck it up and vote for an administration that is funding a genocide against their people. Tell them they’re being “idealistic” when they speak out against a genocide.
For lots of these people it can’t get any worse. Gaza is being absolutely devastated, what do they have to lose? I’m not trying to argue that not voting democrat is a good idea, but I don’t think you are engaging with the situation these people are dealing with. It’s easy to argue from the sidelines that Trump is worse for Palestine, but I can’t imagine having to actually vote for an administration that is actively committing genocide on my home land.
Democrats got absolutely fucking destroyed in the election. I beg you to reflect on the strategies used by democrats and liberals. Have some compassion and try to understand the motivations of voters instead of blaming them for the failures of the democratic party.
You cannot win the support of people by shaming them, it simply doesn’t work. Please stop doing it.
No. They deserve to feel shame. This is every bit and exponentially more- their fault as they try to say it is the DNC’s. The blame lies everywhere but at the feet of those who voted to deep trump out.
Now they get to be victims of their own decision.
And trust me when I say this- it will get MUCH worse. Israel hasn’t occupied Gaza yet. But you can bet your ass they’re going to now.
Ok you go say that to their faces. Tell them that Donald Trump will stop funding genocide against their people. Tell them they are being “unrealistic” when they cite his promise to help Israel “finish the job”.
Your argument is essentially, “Hey I know democrats are committing a genocide against your people, but if you don’t vote for them republicans are going to genocide your people even harder”
Why should they believe democrats? The arguments you’re all making lack any sort of attempts to understand the people you’re talking about or the situation they are facing. Their families are being murdered every fucking day and Kamala couldn’t fucking stop herself from saying shit like “we’re going to have the most lethal army” and “israel has a right to defend itself”. I cannot imagine the emotions these people are dealing with and the fact that you are belittling them for not voting democrat is honestly disgusting.
ok tough guy. Let me know when you’ve told a Palestinian that they are stupid for not voting democrat because Trump is going to murder their family even harder than Biden.
That’s an excellent question. The Harris campaign decided to not let Palestinians speak at the DNC. The Uncommitted movement offered to endorse her but the staff refused to let any Palestinian Americans do so on camera, even with pre-vetted remarks. It’s mystifying and one of the major blunders of the Harris campaign.
Harris seemed hyper focused on avoiding any criticism by Trump or Republicans. Hence she wouldn’t meet with Palestinian-Americans and avoided all the Muslim voters in Pennsylvania who were trying to meet with her. She was working so hard to get Republicans to flip and support her, which is why she did a rally with Liz Cheney and talked about how much she’d help Israel, and decided the Arab-American and Muslim-American votes were expendable if it meant getting more Republicans.
Hillary tried the same strategy in 2016, and it failed badly. Throwing one of the most loyal democratic voting blocs under the bus to get Republicans to flip for them, has been a strategy of 2 of the last 3 elections (Biden promised to undo the Muslim ban but nothing else, so I don’t know if that counts) and they keep repeating this playbook with the same results. I fear that in 2028 they won’t even try to get our votes again and will try to cozy up to Trump’s Muslim ban in hopes that Republicans flip to democrat once again.
You’re doing the exact same thing. You are refusing to acknowledge any criticism to the Harris campaign and blaming voters for the loss.
Misogyny absolutely played a role in this election and I do not want to downplay the racism and misogyny that Harris had to work against, but she ran a fucking awful campaign. She sucked up to fascists, ignored her base, and belittled the concerns pro-palestine protestors.
Saying she ran an awful campaign is a judgement, one neither of us qualified to make legitimately (correct me if I’m wrong and you have some relevant professional experience)
The voters spoke and said they did not see enough of a difference between Harris and Trump to vote for Harris, and the ones that saw a difference voted for Trump.
Harris was out there making her platform and politics known, performing at debates.
I mean yeah but if this is your mindset then why are you on the internet talking about politics? Am I supposed to meekly say, “Democrats tried their best but it just didn’t work out!”.
No I’m not an expert but I followed this election cycle quite closely and I listened to experienced commentators and weighed their opinions on the matter.
The average american is worse off than they have been in a long time and Harris did not adequately address that. She campaigned on securing the border and continuing to support a genocide. She didn’t promise to take on corporate greed, or to tax billionaires, or to make sure all americans have access to healthcare. She didn’t give voters anything to get excited about. Her campaign was laser focused on telling voters that Trump is bad and that they should vote for her.
Many people, myself included, think that was a terrible strategy. The election results seem evidence enough for me but apparently some people think election results are not a good indicator of whether or not someone ran a good campaign.
If you’re saying she didn’t give people anything to be excited about, and she focused ‘Trump is bad’ then you imho did not follow the election, you followed social media and click bait.
Her platform was there, it was a great direction for this country to make us stronger, happier and represent the better aspects of American voters. I was very excited for it.
And personally, I didn’t like her much at first, nor would I say she is ideal. But there are 3 choices: Harris, Trump, everything is fine. I was definitely excited to pick Harris with those being the only three options.
Dude I was locked in to the election for months, you’re blowing smoke out of your ass.
Go watch Jon Stewarts election recap. He has a montage of democrats saying shit like you would expect republicans to say.
She ran on having a lethal military, a secure border, and $50k for small businesses. But by all means show me receipts of her progressive campaign and I will happily concede my point.
It’s really interesting to me that you didn’t list a single one of her policies.
I apologize, but I don’t believe you are open minded. I mostly replied so that a third party would not see such blame as you were making an unopposed statement and believe that is a representative perspective.
I’m not American and you didn’t answer my question.
If pro-palestinian one issue voters lost Kamala the election, why didn’t she appease them? Why are the voters to blame and not the democrats?
Im an Israeli anarchist, but I’m still going to try my best at explaining.
American liberals won’t ever appease leftists, or minorities, because they expect subservience and loyalty for nothing in return. In so doing they play right into the fascists’ hands, trying to serve right wingers who already made their minds up in voting for a fascist.
It is very likely not only more leftists but more Muslim and arabic people would’ve voted for dems if it weren’t for dems insisting that kamala should keep supporting israel and that criticism is amount to betrayal.
As much as i despise electoralism, being an anarchist and all, it’s very simple to understand how and why this happened even from an electoralist perspective, makes one think maybe american liberals just don’t want to understand.
And before anyone says I’m talking out of my ass about american libs, as if i don’t know them because I don’t live in the states: Know that they walk and talk just the same as israeli liberals, and these empty platitudes and threats of being a traitor are the same as i get at home.
If I’m understanding your comment correctly we’re more or less on the same page.
My question is not a literal question but me pointing out the paradox sucking up to Israel to “win the election” and then blaming pro-palestine voters after they lose the election.
Oh, yeah that makes more sense, we’re definitely on the same page.
Because in the coalition of Democratic voters and donors, there are also those who unconditionally support Israel, and they outnumber those who support the Palestinians.
This is simply not true.
https://forward.com/news/672886/american-jews-israel-arms-embargo-poll/
https://cepr.net/press-release/poll-majority-of-americans-say-biden-should-halt-weapons-shipments-to-israel/
Answers to your comment are hilarious, these people deserve Trump but they don’t even realise this. Rats complaining about cockroaches.
Because they shouldn’t have beeded to be convinced. Trump was obviously the worse choice for Palestine. The most basic realpolitik shouldve told them to hold their nose. They are to blame for putting their ideals over the lives of everyone around them and even those they want to save.
Ok you go say that to their faces. Tell them they should suck it up and vote for an administration that is funding a genocide against their people. Tell them they’re being “idealistic” when they speak out against a genocide.
Liberals are amazing.
Not half as “amazing” as protest voters that think not doing anything will result in a change for the better.
We voted. We tried to stop this. If you didn’t- then you have no place casting aspersions at those that did.
For lots of these people it can’t get any worse. Gaza is being absolutely devastated, what do they have to lose? I’m not trying to argue that not voting democrat is a good idea, but I don’t think you are engaging with the situation these people are dealing with. It’s easy to argue from the sidelines that Trump is worse for Palestine, but I can’t imagine having to actually vote for an administration that is actively committing genocide on my home land.
Democrats got absolutely fucking destroyed in the election. I beg you to reflect on the strategies used by democrats and liberals. Have some compassion and try to understand the motivations of voters instead of blaming them for the failures of the democratic party.
You cannot win the support of people by shaming them, it simply doesn’t work. Please stop doing it.
No. They deserve to feel shame. This is every bit and exponentially more- their fault as they try to say it is the DNC’s. The blame lies everywhere but at the feet of those who voted to deep trump out.
Now they get to be victims of their own decision.
And trust me when I say this- it will get MUCH worse. Israel hasn’t occupied Gaza yet. But you can bet your ass they’re going to now.
Ok you go say that to their faces. Tell them that Donald Trump will stop funding genocide against their people. Tell them they are being “unrealistic” when they cite his promise to help Israel “finish the job”.
What are you even saying?
Your argument is essentially, “Hey I know democrats are committing a genocide against your people, but if you don’t vote for them republicans are going to genocide your people even harder”
Why should they believe democrats? The arguments you’re all making lack any sort of attempts to understand the people you’re talking about or the situation they are facing. Their families are being murdered every fucking day and Kamala couldn’t fucking stop herself from saying shit like “we’re going to have the most lethal army” and “israel has a right to defend itself”. I cannot imagine the emotions these people are dealing with and the fact that you are belittling them for not voting democrat is honestly disgusting.
Put one in front of me, I gladly will
ok tough guy. Let me know when you’ve told a Palestinian that they are stupid for not voting democrat because Trump is going to murder their family even harder than Biden.
Find me one and I gladly will, you can watch
That’s an excellent question. The Harris campaign decided to not let Palestinians speak at the DNC. The Uncommitted movement offered to endorse her but the staff refused to let any Palestinian Americans do so on camera, even with pre-vetted remarks. It’s mystifying and one of the major blunders of the Harris campaign.
Harris seemed hyper focused on avoiding any criticism by Trump or Republicans. Hence she wouldn’t meet with Palestinian-Americans and avoided all the Muslim voters in Pennsylvania who were trying to meet with her. She was working so hard to get Republicans to flip and support her, which is why she did a rally with Liz Cheney and talked about how much she’d help Israel, and decided the Arab-American and Muslim-American votes were expendable if it meant getting more Republicans.
Hillary tried the same strategy in 2016, and it failed badly. Throwing one of the most loyal democratic voting blocs under the bus to get Republicans to flip for them, has been a strategy of 2 of the last 3 elections (Biden promised to undo the Muslim ban but nothing else, so I don’t know if that counts) and they keep repeating this playbook with the same results. I fear that in 2028 they won’t even try to get our votes again and will try to cozy up to Trump’s Muslim ban in hopes that Republicans flip to democrat once again.
Compare that with, “They are unanimous in their hate for me — and I welcome their hatred.” That line came from some four-term-President loser.
then please shut the fuck up.
It wasn’t the one issue, it was just the one that stuck with people who needed an excuse to not show up and vote for a woman.
I think i can copy paste this comment somewhere on a 2016 thread about Hilary and it would make just as much sense.
How about you tell this to someone who isn’t white, or better yet, someone who has family affected by the situation in gaza.
You’re doing the exact same thing. You are refusing to acknowledge any criticism to the Harris campaign and blaming voters for the loss.
Misogyny absolutely played a role in this election and I do not want to downplay the racism and misogyny that Harris had to work against, but she ran a fucking awful campaign. She sucked up to fascists, ignored her base, and belittled the concerns pro-palestine protestors.
I’m speaking now.
Saying she ran an awful campaign is a judgement, one neither of us qualified to make legitimately (correct me if I’m wrong and you have some relevant professional experience)
The voters spoke and said they did not see enough of a difference between Harris and Trump to vote for Harris, and the ones that saw a difference voted for Trump.
Harris was out there making her platform and politics known, performing at debates.
I mean yeah but if this is your mindset then why are you on the internet talking about politics? Am I supposed to meekly say, “Democrats tried their best but it just didn’t work out!”.
No I’m not an expert but I followed this election cycle quite closely and I listened to experienced commentators and weighed their opinions on the matter.
The average american is worse off than they have been in a long time and Harris did not adequately address that. She campaigned on securing the border and continuing to support a genocide. She didn’t promise to take on corporate greed, or to tax billionaires, or to make sure all americans have access to healthcare. She didn’t give voters anything to get excited about. Her campaign was laser focused on telling voters that Trump is bad and that they should vote for her.
Many people, myself included, think that was a terrible strategy. The election results seem evidence enough for me but apparently some people think election results are not a good indicator of whether or not someone ran a good campaign.
If you’re saying she didn’t give people anything to be excited about, and she focused ‘Trump is bad’ then you imho did not follow the election, you followed social media and click bait.
Her platform was there, it was a great direction for this country to make us stronger, happier and represent the better aspects of American voters. I was very excited for it.
And personally, I didn’t like her much at first, nor would I say she is ideal. But there are 3 choices: Harris, Trump, everything is fine. I was definitely excited to pick Harris with those being the only three options.
Dude I was locked in to the election for months, you’re blowing smoke out of your ass.
Go watch Jon Stewarts election recap. He has a montage of democrats saying shit like you would expect republicans to say.
She ran on having a lethal military, a secure border, and $50k for small businesses. But by all means show me receipts of her progressive campaign and I will happily concede my point.
It’s really interesting to me that you didn’t list a single one of her policies.
I apologize, but I don’t believe you are open minded. I mostly replied so that a third party would not see such blame as you were making an unopposed statement and believe that is a representative perspective.
They answered your question perfectly.