I’ve read similar things about the development of Morrowind, about creative decisions needing to get past Todd, in this excellent article about its development.
Here are some quotes from Michael Kirkbride:
The game was originally set in the Summerset Isles. And then we got bored and decided, “Man, this is really boring. How about we put it in a volcano with like giant bugs everywhere?” And people were like, “What?” So Todd Howard — the easiest way to get anything past Todd, at that time, was you basically just had to say “Star Wars.” Which was true for me and anybody then. So I was like, “The game should be like Dark Crystal meets Star Wars.” And he was immediately hooked. I got all the bug creatures I ever needed, we moved it from Summerset Isles to this weird dark-elf place on the map, and we just went from there.
I used to have this thing with Todd, because he was one of the ones that’s like, “Let’s not make it too weird.” So I’d bamboozle him. There was a period where I would actually draw two different versions of a monster — the one that was weird and that I wanted to be in the game, and then one that was fucking crazy. And so I’d go to Todd, and I’m like, “OK, I think I’ve got the mid-level creature set.” And I’d show him a picture. He’d be like, “Nah, dude, that’s crazy.” Then I’d go back to my office and I would act like I was drawing something new, and I’d just come back with the original drawing of what I really wanted to be in there. Like, “Hey, is this what you were thinking?” And he’d be all, “Oh, yeah, that’s much better. That’s great.”
I can definitely believe his influence has become immense following the studio’s success - though it definitely feels like he needs to hand the reins over to somebody else.
That tactic for his crazy monster designs is a classic psychological trick, but I can’t remember what it’s called. It’s a thing where you’re more likely to get someone’s help by first asking for more help than you want/need, and then when rejected, you can scale it back, and they’ll more likely concede
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Considering it says the opposite works as well, it seems being obnoxious and persistent is the key here. 🤣
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Kirkbride got such a wild and interesting take on fantasy, it’s a shame his influence on elder scrolls have diminished with time.
The loss of Ken Rolston and Kirkbride and the rise of Emil Pagliarulo is what fucked the elder scrolls writing.
You shouldn’t hand your big epic fantasy world to a guy who couldn’t give a fuck about the lore or stepping on the toes of other writers.
Honestly I don’t think anyone should have that kind of power over a AAA game these days.
I disagree, AAA especially would benefit fromsomeone with that kind of power at the helm. Most AAA games feel like committee games, no clear vision besides appealing to the lowest denominator. The reason Kojima games are so praised and polarizing is because he has this kind of power to make sure his vision gets realized.
If everything has to go through Todd and the end result is Starfield then that just means Todd isn’t suited to have that much power.
I would say that someone like Kojima is the outlier. There are not many developers like him that can make all the decisions about a game and make the right ones/make decisions that gamers actually agree with. Even Death Stranded wasn’t as big of a hit as people expected it to be. It has developed a large cult following, but it didn’t quite have the same fan appreciation when it launched.
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There are not many developers like him that can make all the decisions about a game and make the right ones/make decisions that gamers actually agree with.
Care to give any examples of devs in his position that don’t make good decisions?
Well Todd Howard is a good example. And I have very little faith in whatever Peter Molyneux puts out next. Thankfully there are many example because not many people are given the type of control over a game that this articles is talking about.
I personally don’t think Todd Howard is a good example to back your point
It works pretty well for Miyamoto and Kojima.
Of course, they are two of the top game directors in the industry. But I think you will find a lot more examples of games where it doesn’t work.
Well you did say anyone
And Miyazaki
That just seems too hilarious to be true, specially the first part. Specially given that a lot of the lore preceded Morrowind and already created the setting for the place it would be set in: https://images.uesp.net/thumb/3/39/DF-map-Tamriel.jpg/400px-DF-map-Tamriel.jpg
Wasn’t there a report where some of the devs called him a seagull because he would just fly by whatever you were working on and shit all over it? Maybe I’m misremembering who that’s attributed to though, there are lots of terrible people in games.
It’s almost as if people get old and become less efficient at everything, regardless of where they started from.
The quote above is from Morrowind, so I’m curious to know when you think he lost his mojo. Like, Daggerfall? I mean, I could agree with that, but it seems like a hot take.
Only semi-related, but I’m playing through modded-out Daggerfall Unity on my Steam deck and it feels so fresh. It’s the best kind of remaster: it feels like how you remember the game playing, not how it actually did.
It was always a cool thing, and I’m glad it’s an official cool thing now.
Honestly, Daggerfall is such a bold, crazy artefact. I bought it at launch, couldn’t believe the back of the box pitch and was shocked to see how much of its bonkers concept does translate into the game. I was hoping the whole procedural planet thing from Starfield would be a bit of a return to that, but from what I read that didn’t quite pan out. I haven’t gotten around to playing it for myself, though.
Personally? Around and after Skyrim.
Fair enough. Seems like the micromanagement was there both before and after that point, though, so it’s probably not a symptom of that. Although it could be a contributing factor that having more games in developement doesn’t fit that personality type as well, but it’s probably impossible to say without actually working with him directly.
He’s the game director, it makes sense that things would go through him.
He’s the game director, it makes sense that things would go through him.
Things: yes. All things: No. That’s micromanagement.
But we are talking about design decisions here, it would be micromanagement if he was getting in the middle of how things are done, not the end result.
But we are talking about design decisions here
Not every single piece of design should require signing off by a single person, though, not in large teams. If you look at interviews from Nintendo studios or 2nd party developers how Miyamoto oversees game development, it’s more like pointing out which game mechanics he things work better and should be emphasized and otherwise he’s super hands off and for the most part it’s to the benefit of Nintendo games.
Read the article carefully though, it’s mostly trying to be inflammatory. It seems ideas outside of what Bethesda usually does end up having to go through Todd because he is good at putting himself in the end user’s shoes even if he doesn’t want to be the guy with the final say in everything.
It seems more like something that happened over time as they became successful.
On big projects like this, the game director isn’t also the lead game designer. Or at least they shouldn’t. That’s the whole point of having these 2 positions in the first place
It doesn’t sound like he’s designing. He’s only (dis)approving the designers work.
Yeah tbh the article doesn’t really help to determine how much he’s micromanaging but that’s basically where the issue lies. According to the example in the article it does sound like he’s stepping on the art director’s boundaries regarding creatures design though
The dev is far nicer to Todd than the title implies.
Yeah. He even says Todd didn’t like to be in this position, and that’s why he would hate him saying that. But clickbait’s gonna clickbait.
Yes that’s probably what allowed games like Skyrim to be so good instead of feeling like they were designed by a corporate committee.
People bitch about him but there’s a reason his games are so popular.
Brand image?
Yeah, I’m not mad at this. Games should have a leader calling the shots. I think it’s why Kojima’s games are always so great.
I am for one SHOCKED that an executive doesn’t let developer do whatever the fuck they want. SHOCKED!
Especially for games that took like 10 years to make and cost like a billion dollars lol.
16 times the decisions!
LOL! Fuck man, almost lost my shit reading this and woke my fiance. 😂
They never should have let the Barbarian lead the party.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDP8QvuXn0g&t=934s
Timestamp in question
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Shoulda told him to build a new Star Wars game engine…
Okay so I’m gonna skip The Elder Scrolls VI - aisomnoim
