Now the question is, how do we help them understand? When someone’s that disillusioned and disconnected, how can we make meaningful changes in their worldview?
Or, the other sides gotta get up and vote. But that can be easier said than done. And there’s some scary stuff happening in polling places.
Help them understand by running a candidate that isn’t just ‘the lesser evil.’
If Trump was so bad, maybe dems should’ve nominated Bernie instead of the least-electable candidate in the history of the US.
But let’s be real. In the eyes of the ruling class, Republicans are great while Democrats are good. It’s better they have someone like Trump or Biden in power than someone like Bernie because Bernie fucks with their money.
Trump doesn’t. Biden doesn’t. That’s why nobody cares about american politics anymore. It’s all a crapshoot setup by the ruling class to maintain control while making people think they have a voice.
If we want change, you need at least 2 full presidential cycles, probably more. You would need to build up a grassroots third party, start getting candidates who are willing to run for all the unglamorous positions like town selectman and school committee and work your way up from there. No magical third party president is going to come out of the woodwork and solve all your problems, and even if they did, the president is mostly just a figurehead.
I wouldn’t even bother even floating a 3rd party presidential candidate until you have ~1/3 of the house and at least a quarter of the senate under this 3rd party.
I suspect that there’s a lot more people than we think who would rather not vote for either Trump or Biden, but they don’t want to throw their vote away.
This is why we need rank choice voting. It would eliminate any risk of people voting for a third party while also voting for the lesser of two evils put forth by the D & R’s.
The only reason I can see why rank choice voting is not already everywhere is because they know it would strip power away from the top.
That’s only because everyone was voting against Trump. This is the fault of our voting system. It is why we need rank choice voting, so we can vote for the people we like instead of against the people we dislike.
I think what they’re saying is they want a ‘true’ “lesser evil” type candidate like Bernie Sanders than a candidate who has been outwardly bad towards a significant number of popular positions.
Sure, Biden is doing a decent amount of progressive work now, but he’s still working on a legacy of being a milk-toast Democrat who’s partially responsible for the entire war on drugs and the like.
The point isn’t that something is always bad for someone. The point is they’re barely offering apples tied to strings. People are sick of the constant cockteasing no matter their political slant.
None of that negates the point. Honestly, the far right feels that Trump is lesser evil.
The point is, these are the candidates that, collectively as Americans we deserve. Sure they aren’t the ones we need. But they’re the ones generations of complacency, lack of education and participation have left us with. Not just us. But you get the point.
Now we can argue that conservatives thinking Trump is the lesser evil is abjectly stupid. And it is. But is it really any stupider than self defeating lefties constantly invoking Bernie Sanders name. Acting all butthurt on his account, when the man himself doesn’t. Taking the wrong lessons away from a showing that surprised even Sanders. Making democrats take notice, giving this Johnny come lately actual power within the Democratic party. Literally pulling them to the left. Constantly whining and bemoaning one of the most consequential democratic administrations in modern history, at least since the civil rights era.
Yeah, I’m not a fan of Biden. He’s made a lot of horrible and bone-headed moves throughout his career. But oh my god it’s so true what they say. The worst enemy of the left. Their mortal kryptonite. Is the left.
I agree with your sentiment. I just like to not downplay how important optics are. As much as I’m sure we both wish people were logical and informed, neither are true about most people.
Regardless of how good Biden presently is, he is working with a colored history. It genuinely sucks some people cannot look past the tree for the forest, but that’s how people work.
Unless we don’t want a democracy where people get a voice, we HAVE to deal with idiots and gaslit zealots being in the audience. As unreachable as the extremists are, there is still a HUGE swathe of people who are succeptible to what the extremists say.
Biden specifically, I think people are being too judgemental and dismissive on those parts of the left who refuse to vote for him.
“The left” isn’t as divided as you might think. It’s a political realm that contains multitudes of people. Many, many people are simply disaffected with Republicans and Democrats and aren’t sycophantic weirdos latching on to a personality.
As people get more and more familiar with what actually constitutes leftist positions, the only “infighting” there will be will be between those who want to use authority and force to get their way, and those that don’t.
I think we both know what to call people who want to use force to effect their politics.
I find that what’s best is to listen to those people, if they are aprochable, and ask understanding questions as for why they think that or what do they think about such subject. Sometimes pushing them to explain themselves will trigger some internal reflection without triggering their fear of losing face as much as with direct arguing. Then if they ask about your opinion, you may express it in a non confrontational way. I think this how some of those people can progress.
It’s less a matter of understanding than it is a matter of basic economics.
Try convincing a wage earner that it’s worth it to miss a day of work when the minimum wage hasn’t increased in 15 years and they’re coping with 30% to 50% increases in their cost of living under Joe Biden, who had control of Congress.
At some point it just clicks that your situation isn’t improving no matter who is elected.
Now the question is, how do we help them understand? When someone’s that disillusioned and disconnected, how can we make meaningful changes in their worldview?
Or, the other sides gotta get up and vote. But that can be easier said than done. And there’s some scary stuff happening in polling places.
Help them understand by running a candidate that isn’t just ‘the lesser evil.’
If Trump was so bad, maybe dems should’ve nominated Bernie instead of the least-electable candidate in the history of the US.
But let’s be real. In the eyes of the ruling class, Republicans are great while Democrats are good. It’s better they have someone like Trump or Biden in power than someone like Bernie because Bernie fucks with their money.
Trump doesn’t. Biden doesn’t. That’s why nobody cares about american politics anymore. It’s all a crapshoot setup by the ruling class to maintain control while making people think they have a voice.
If we want change, you need at least 2 full presidential cycles, probably more. You would need to build up a grassroots third party, start getting candidates who are willing to run for all the unglamorous positions like town selectman and school committee and work your way up from there. No magical third party president is going to come out of the woodwork and solve all your problems, and even if they did, the president is mostly just a figurehead.
I wouldn’t even bother even floating a 3rd party presidential candidate until you have ~1/3 of the house and at least a quarter of the senate under this 3rd party.
I suspect that there’s a lot more people than we think who would rather not vote for either Trump or Biden, but they don’t want to throw their vote away.
This is why we need rank choice voting. It would eliminate any risk of people voting for a third party while also voting for the lesser of two evils put forth by the D & R’s.
The only reason I can see why rank choice voting is not already everywhere is because they know it would strip power away from the top.
They won’t run a Bernie until -we- start to pay attention and demand it.
We’ve already tried that - twice. Even though it’s very possible that someone like Bernie could garner votes from both right and left.
Least-Electable Candidate in US History, Claims Area Man, of Candidate Who Won With Most Votes Ever in US History
That’s only because everyone was voting against Trump. This is the fault of our voting system. It is why we need rank choice voting, so we can vote for the people we like instead of against the people we dislike.
Which has the exact same vibe as “the stock market hit all time highs!”
Yeah, no shit. The population is increasing. What else is new?
deleted by creator
And lost to… checks notes
Donald Trump.
Also, didn’t the 2016 US election have the highest turnout up to that point?
That’s the argument of a child. You’re perfect candidate is someone else’s lesser evil.
I think what they’re saying is they want a ‘true’ “lesser evil” type candidate like Bernie Sanders than a candidate who has been outwardly bad towards a significant number of popular positions.
Sure, Biden is doing a decent amount of progressive work now, but he’s still working on a legacy of being a milk-toast Democrat who’s partially responsible for the entire war on drugs and the like.
The point isn’t that something is always bad for someone. The point is they’re barely offering apples tied to strings. People are sick of the constant cockteasing no matter their political slant.
None of that negates the point. Honestly, the far right feels that Trump is lesser evil.
The point is, these are the candidates that, collectively as Americans we deserve. Sure they aren’t the ones we need. But they’re the ones generations of complacency, lack of education and participation have left us with. Not just us. But you get the point.
Now we can argue that conservatives thinking Trump is the lesser evil is abjectly stupid. And it is. But is it really any stupider than self defeating lefties constantly invoking Bernie Sanders name. Acting all butthurt on his account, when the man himself doesn’t. Taking the wrong lessons away from a showing that surprised even Sanders. Making democrats take notice, giving this Johnny come lately actual power within the Democratic party. Literally pulling them to the left. Constantly whining and bemoaning one of the most consequential democratic administrations in modern history, at least since the civil rights era.
Yeah, I’m not a fan of Biden. He’s made a lot of horrible and bone-headed moves throughout his career. But oh my god it’s so true what they say. The worst enemy of the left. Their mortal kryptonite. Is the left.
I agree with your sentiment. I just like to not downplay how important optics are. As much as I’m sure we both wish people were logical and informed, neither are true about most people.
Regardless of how good Biden presently is, he is working with a colored history. It genuinely sucks some people cannot look past the tree for the forest, but that’s how people work.
Unless we don’t want a democracy where people get a voice, we HAVE to deal with idiots and gaslit zealots being in the audience. As unreachable as the extremists are, there is still a HUGE swathe of people who are succeptible to what the extremists say.
Biden specifically, I think people are being too judgemental and dismissive on those parts of the left who refuse to vote for him.
“The left” isn’t as divided as you might think. It’s a political realm that contains multitudes of people. Many, many people are simply disaffected with Republicans and Democrats and aren’t sycophantic weirdos latching on to a personality.
As people get more and more familiar with what actually constitutes leftist positions, the only “infighting” there will be will be between those who want to use authority and force to get their way, and those that don’t.
I think we both know what to call people who want to use force to effect their politics.
I find that what’s best is to listen to those people, if they are aprochable, and ask understanding questions as for why they think that or what do they think about such subject. Sometimes pushing them to explain themselves will trigger some internal reflection without triggering their fear of losing face as much as with direct arguing. Then if they ask about your opinion, you may express it in a non confrontational way. I think this how some of those people can progress.
It’s less a matter of understanding than it is a matter of basic economics.
Try convincing a wage earner that it’s worth it to miss a day of work when the minimum wage hasn’t increased in 15 years and they’re coping with 30% to 50% increases in their cost of living under Joe Biden, who had control of Congress.
At some point it just clicks that your situation isn’t improving no matter who is elected.