It’s why I started calling them Nazis: because of all the variants of Fascism, at the moment with all that we’re seeing in Gaza it’s Nazism that’s the one closest what is being done by Israel.
If you think about it, systematic state-level extreme racism is only natural for an etnostate created during WWII and heavilly reliant on the way of thinking that lead to WWII - that of viewing people not as individual humans whose worth or unworth is defined by their actions and the actions they support but rather as born member of etnicities, with everybody of an etnicity judged as a group to be worthy or unworthy.
So reliant was Israel on etnic identitarianism for its identity and reason to be that when they reached the same level of power and confidence they behave just like all other such nations when they had such power, including the very one which is the Evil Opressor in Israel’s Founding Story: Nazi Germany.
Is the presumption that any confusion from labelling them as such is actually not anywhere near the value of like pointing out the alleged truthfulness which comes from the analogy made by labelling people in Israel as such?
Sorry for the direct language I have ASD, I’m just trying to understand what people mean usually but it’s been told to me that it is rude or offensive so I apologize if that is the case.
Well, notice how I never say “Israelis”, but rather “Israel”, “authorities of Israel”, “the leaders of Israel” or the “government of Israel” (and not just in this post but more broadly).
That’s because it would indeed be massivelly unfair to label all Israelis on the actions of the state of Israel: even if the country is supposedly a Democracy and even if it was a perfect Democracy (and this latter it definitelly isn’t) we can at most claim that most Isrealis support the actions of their government and hence those that do can be judged on that support, never that Israelis in general can be judged on that. One can only pass judgment on individual people (Israelis or otherwise) based on what those individues support and how they act.
So whilst criticising the actions of the nation of Israel, executed on the orders of the elected government of Israel, which was supposedly elected and represents a majority of Israelis, I’m trying hard to not label all Israelis as a group because it would be unfair to the many Israelis that don’t support this shit and, as you rightly point out, it would be quite the hypocrisy for me to complain about others treating people as part of groups and then go and myself do just that.
PS: I have no problem with direct language and in fact vastly prefer it like that, mostly because my core adult growth years were mostly lived in The Netherlands and the Dutch tend to culturally be quite direct. That said, thank you for considering that the person on the other side might feel that direct language is unpleasant.
Ah yes very fair. I did not do a close reading and missed that, I did not notice or see how careful you were with your language, your explanation is much appreciated!
Do you give any credit to Hamas for holding their families as human shields or for decades of suicide bombings and martyrdom?
Weird that Israel has an international coalition of western powers and respected countries behind it, and the coalition behind Palestine is as follows:
Algeria
Bangladesh
Boliva
Brazil
Columbia
Cuba
Egypt
Hondura
Iran
Iraq
Jordan
Malaysia
Namibia
North Korea
Pakistan
Qatar
Syria
Turkey
Tunisia
Venezuela
Hamas also has a number of non-state affiliates that support it including:
Islamic Jihad
Mujahedeen
Houthis
Hezbollah
Martyr’s Brigade
Really, these are the friends of your friends? You sure you didn’t get tricked? I mean, here you are taking an absolutely ridiculous position so you can stand up for suicide bombers and jihadists.
Sort of seems like it’s more about the fact that Israel desires to be a democracy but is surrounded by Islamic fundamentalists who want to subjugate people under authoritarian theocracies and ancient superstition with zero possibility of granting lasting human rights for tens of millions of people.
The world is not going to miss Hamas after its gone, least of all the human shields Hamas forces to stay behind and be bombed whenever Israel warns people that they are striking a nearby military target.
Oh, the irony of claiming Palestinians are dying because Hamas uses them as human shields under a video were an IDF soldier straight of murders a Palestinian with a white flag.
That’s the very definition of self-disproven bullshit.
Also one wonders how exactly Hamas’ use of Palestinians as human shields would explain members of the Israeli state calling Palestinians (not Hamas, Palestinians) “human animals” and “violent”, the kind of talk which is neatly and easilly explained by members of the Israeli government being rabid racists and something which is even consistent with every single thing they’ve ever said about Palestinians as well as their actions - lots of illogical and falacious argumentative contortions are required to force the “human shields” theory to explain all sorts of statements and actions by the Israeli authorities but the “rabid racist” theory just straight up fits like a glove (Occan’s Razor easilly applies here).
Further, you provide a wonderful example of the rabid racism I mention, by immediatelly going on and on about Hamas to justify killing Palestinians, as if all Palestinians are the same and hence all Hamas and deserving of the same fate.
C’mon, just admit your major hard-on from seeing the “lesser races” being “put in their place” and stop the hypocrite instantly self-disproven bullshit rant. At least you would be deserving of a little bit of respect for your honesty.
Nah, I’m not impressed by the unscripted remarks of a few extremist members of the Israeli government, most especially when that rhetoric does not match the facts on the ground.
This war is about protecting Israel from an existential threat. Israel is deserving of that protection because it is a democracy. It’s really as simple as that. The Palestinian people have had 100 years to stop deploying terrorism as a method of achieving political ends and they have utterly failed. After October 7, enough is enough.
I never once said anything about any civilians deserving this fate. However, it is not Israel that put them there. It is Hamas. Period.
Wow, that’s very nice. It still doesn’t match the activity or facts on the ground.
If the ground activity match the rhetoric of the three or four people you are talking about, it would look like this:
There would be direct military strikes on roads, power infrastructure, and water infrastructure without any pretext of tunnels or Hamas fighters being present;
There would be no humanitarian aid corridors;
There would not be phone call, text message, leaflet, and roof knock warnings before every bombing;
Every day there would be dozens or hundreds of videos of soldiers with rifles or tanks with machine guns opening fire on large groups of civilians;
The civilian death toll would be way, way higher than 1% of the population (1% of Gaza, 0.4% of all Palestinians) after four months;
The numbers of daily casualties would be going up and up instead of trending downward as they have been week after week.
Yeah, because it’s absolutelly normal everywhere in the world for government ministers to deem a whole etnicity “human animals” and suggest nuking a neighbouring enclave and not be kicked out of that government before the day is over.
Also the idea that a country with fighter jets, tanks and even nukes is under extential threat from a bunch of murders from with homemade rockets from a neighbouring country whose land they’ve been stealing for over half a century, would already be unbelieveable in the story of a Fantasy book, but trying to pass that as reality is really taking the piss out of everybody else.
It seems like you don’t know enough about this conflict to really have an opinion.
The existential threat would be the organized and internationally funded terrorist organization operating with impunity within Israel’s borders under the ideology of Islamic Jihad.
The terrorists here are also supported by Iran.
Whatever hope Palestine may have had for a Tuesday solution ended on October 7 when when Hamas sold out its people and its country in order to do 1,200 murders.
You mean the organization that Israel influenced the creation of through decades of mistreatment and mishandling of the situation? The same one Israel is on record saying it’s a good thing as it allows Israel to treat Palestine as a hostile state? Basically exactly what they’re doing now, killing anyone and everyone and just shrugging and saying “because hamas”?
Fine, Israel’s leader/government, as elected by its population, is on record. Does that make it better?
1% of the population is a lot of people. That’s tens of thousands of lives cut short. Kids who’ll never grow up, families torn apart, etc. Should that not elicit emotion? There’s plenty of videos of children and unarmed people trying to surrender or otherwise being shot. Seems like anyone and everyone to me.
Fun fact! Hysteria was originally thought to be a condition that only applied to women, hence the Greek root “hyster” for womb, as if that were the source of irrational emotion.
Thanks. I also recommend the books Ilan Pappe has done if you want a more academic approach. A lot of this is independent verification of his work that I’ve found.
Yeah: extreme rabid violent racism.
It’s why I started calling them Nazis: because of all the variants of Fascism, at the moment with all that we’re seeing in Gaza it’s Nazism that’s the one closest what is being done by Israel.
If you think about it, systematic state-level extreme racism is only natural for an etnostate created during WWII and heavilly reliant on the way of thinking that lead to WWII - that of viewing people not as individual humans whose worth or unworth is defined by their actions and the actions they support but rather as born member of etnicities, with everybody of an etnicity judged as a group to be worthy or unworthy.
So reliant was Israel on etnic identitarianism for its identity and reason to be that when they reached the same level of power and confidence they behave just like all other such nations when they had such power, including the very one which is the Evil Opressor in Israel’s Founding Story: Nazi Germany.
I think that’s fair.
Is the presumption that any confusion from labelling them as such is actually not anywhere near the value of like pointing out the alleged truthfulness which comes from the analogy made by labelling people in Israel as such?
Sorry for the direct language I have ASD, I’m just trying to understand what people mean usually but it’s been told to me that it is rude or offensive so I apologize if that is the case.
Well, notice how I never say “Israelis”, but rather “Israel”, “authorities of Israel”, “the leaders of Israel” or the “government of Israel” (and not just in this post but more broadly).
That’s because it would indeed be massivelly unfair to label all Israelis on the actions of the state of Israel: even if the country is supposedly a Democracy and even if it was a perfect Democracy (and this latter it definitelly isn’t) we can at most claim that most Isrealis support the actions of their government and hence those that do can be judged on that support, never that Israelis in general can be judged on that. One can only pass judgment on individual people (Israelis or otherwise) based on what those individues support and how they act.
So whilst criticising the actions of the nation of Israel, executed on the orders of the elected government of Israel, which was supposedly elected and represents a majority of Israelis, I’m trying hard to not label all Israelis as a group because it would be unfair to the many Israelis that don’t support this shit and, as you rightly point out, it would be quite the hypocrisy for me to complain about others treating people as part of groups and then go and myself do just that.
PS: I have no problem with direct language and in fact vastly prefer it like that, mostly because my core adult growth years were mostly lived in The Netherlands and the Dutch tend to culturally be quite direct. That said, thank you for considering that the person on the other side might feel that direct language is unpleasant.
Ah yes very fair. I did not do a close reading and missed that, I did not notice or see how careful you were with your language, your explanation is much appreciated!
Do you give any credit to Hamas for holding their families as human shields or for decades of suicide bombings and martyrdom?
Weird that Israel has an international coalition of western powers and respected countries behind it, and the coalition behind Palestine is as follows:
Hamas also has a number of non-state affiliates that support it including:
Really, these are the friends of your friends? You sure you didn’t get tricked? I mean, here you are taking an absolutely ridiculous position so you can stand up for suicide bombers and jihadists.
Sort of seems like it’s more about the fact that Israel desires to be a democracy but is surrounded by Islamic fundamentalists who want to subjugate people under authoritarian theocracies and ancient superstition with zero possibility of granting lasting human rights for tens of millions of people.
The world is not going to miss Hamas after its gone, least of all the human shields Hamas forces to stay behind and be bombed whenever Israel warns people that they are striking a nearby military target.
Oh, the irony of claiming Palestinians are dying because Hamas uses them as human shields under a video were an IDF soldier straight of murders a Palestinian with a white flag.
That’s the very definition of self-disproven bullshit.
Also one wonders how exactly Hamas’ use of Palestinians as human shields would explain members of the Israeli state calling Palestinians (not Hamas, Palestinians) “human animals” and “violent”, the kind of talk which is neatly and easilly explained by members of the Israeli government being rabid racists and something which is even consistent with every single thing they’ve ever said about Palestinians as well as their actions - lots of illogical and falacious argumentative contortions are required to force the “human shields” theory to explain all sorts of statements and actions by the Israeli authorities but the “rabid racist” theory just straight up fits like a glove (Occan’s Razor easilly applies here).
Further, you provide a wonderful example of the rabid racism I mention, by immediatelly going on and on about Hamas to justify killing Palestinians, as if all Palestinians are the same and hence all Hamas and deserving of the same fate.
C’mon, just admit your major hard-on from seeing the “lesser races” being “put in their place” and stop the hypocrite instantly self-disproven bullshit rant. At least you would be deserving of a little bit of respect for your honesty.
Nah, I’m not impressed by the unscripted remarks of a few extremist members of the Israeli government, most especially when that rhetoric does not match the facts on the ground.
This war is about protecting Israel from an existential threat. Israel is deserving of that protection because it is a democracy. It’s really as simple as that. The Palestinian people have had 100 years to stop deploying terrorism as a method of achieving political ends and they have utterly failed. After October 7, enough is enough.
I never once said anything about any civilians deserving this fate. However, it is not Israel that put them there. It is Hamas. Period.
Including the ones in charge of the security forces…
Wow, that’s very nice. It still doesn’t match the activity or facts on the ground.
If the ground activity match the rhetoric of the three or four people you are talking about, it would look like this:
There would be direct military strikes on roads, power infrastructure, and water infrastructure without any pretext of tunnels or Hamas fighters being present;
There would be no humanitarian aid corridors;
There would not be phone call, text message, leaflet, and roof knock warnings before every bombing;
Every day there would be dozens or hundreds of videos of soldiers with rifles or tanks with machine guns opening fire on large groups of civilians;
The civilian death toll would be way, way higher than 1% of the population (1% of Gaza, 0.4% of all Palestinians) after four months;
The numbers of daily casualties would be going up and up instead of trending downward as they have been week after week.
Yeah, because it’s absolutelly normal everywhere in the world for government ministers to deem a whole etnicity “human animals” and suggest nuking a neighbouring enclave and not be kicked out of that government before the day is over.
Also the idea that a country with fighter jets, tanks and even nukes is under extential threat from a bunch of murders from with homemade rockets from a neighbouring country whose land they’ve been stealing for over half a century, would already be unbelieveable in the story of a Fantasy book, but trying to pass that as reality is really taking the piss out of everybody else.
Go pull the other one.
It seems like you don’t know enough about this conflict to really have an opinion.
The existential threat would be the organized and internationally funded terrorist organization operating with impunity within Israel’s borders under the ideology of Islamic Jihad.
The terrorists here are also supported by Iran.
Whatever hope Palestine may have had for a Tuesday solution ended on October 7 when when Hamas sold out its people and its country in order to do 1,200 murders.
You mean the organization that Israel influenced the creation of through decades of mistreatment and mishandling of the situation? The same one Israel is on record saying it’s a good thing as it allows Israel to treat Palestine as a hostile state? Basically exactly what they’re doing now, killing anyone and everyone and just shrugging and saying “because hamas”?
“Israel is on record”? It’s a country. A democracy at that, inherently made up of conflicting points of view and coalitions.
1% of the population dead = “killing anyone and everyone.”
You sound hysterical and emotional.
Fine, Israel’s leader/government, as elected by its population, is on record. Does that make it better?
1% of the population is a lot of people. That’s tens of thousands of lives cut short. Kids who’ll never grow up, families torn apart, etc. Should that not elicit emotion? There’s plenty of videos of children and unarmed people trying to surrender or otherwise being shot. Seems like anyone and everyone to me.
Fun fact! Hysteria was originally thought to be a condition that only applied to women, hence the Greek root “hyster” for womb, as if that were the source of irrational emotion.
For your convenience:
Plan Dalet and Declassified Massacres
1967 war Declassified
Israel Martial Law and Defence (Emergency) Regulations
Palestinian Prisoners in Israel and Military Court
Child abuse of Palestinian prisoners
Gaza March for Return Protest
Palestinians lack civil rights
Occupation and 50 years of dispossession
Arab League advocating for unified state 1948
Palestinian Arab Congress advocating for Unified State 1928
Hamas founding charter and Revised charter 2017
One State Solution, Foreign Affairs
10 Myths of Israel
History of peace process
How the US became the ally of Israel
Arab Israelis are not equal including Education (2001 report)
Apartheid
Human Shields including Children (2013 Report)
Settler Violence
Torture and Abuse in Interrogations
No freedom of movement
Gaza Blockade is Occupation
Water control
Wow, appreciate the resources. Commenting to view this later…
Thanks. I also recommend the books Ilan Pappe has done if you want a more academic approach. A lot of this is independent verification of his work that I’ve found.