In an interview on the Israeli Basketball Association’s website, Israeli player Dor Saar said before the game: "It’s known that they are quite anti-semitic and it’s no secret, and maybe that’s why a strong game is expected.
“We have to show that we’re better than them and win. We talk about it among ourselves. We know they don’t love us and we will leave everything on the field always and in this game especially.”
Basketball Ireland’s statement prior to the start of the game read: "Basketball Ireland informed Fiba Europe yesterday that as a direct result of recent comments made by Israeli players and coaching staff - including inflammatory and wholly inaccurate accusations of anti-Semitism, published on official Israeli Federation channels - that our players will not be partaking in traditional pre-match arrangements with our upcoming opponents.
It’s known that they are quite anti-semitic
I love it when isrealis reveal that they can’t differentiate between their nationality and the religion
This is your brain on ethnostate
Israelis must seem like the perfect Russians in Putin’s eyes.
That may be more right than you think since Putin had long had a stance of ‘get the fuck out of my country if you don’t like me’ and Israel was and important destination for those who complied.
About 15% of Israel citizens seem to be russian speaking, because of emigration from the USSR and later Russia, see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russians_in_Israel
oh yeah, that happens a LOT.
The 3 D’s are a useful tool to tell apart antisemitism and valid criticism.
Treating people badly because they happen to be from Israel isn’t political commentary.
It’s antisemitism, plain and simple.You’re doing it right now too! Antisemitism is hostility to, prejudice towards, or discrimination against Jews not Israelis. The reason why these players did not want to shake hands with the Israeli team is not because they are Jews, but because they are Israeli. Yes they are refusing to shake hands with them because they are from Israel but its not because they are Jewish. It’s because their country (Israel) is comiting genocide. They would not shake hands with any country that does this
I bet they’d shake hands with the US team, despite the fact that the US killed 50x more Arab civilians in order to “defend their interests” on the other side of the world.
Holding Israel to a standard you don’t apply to any other nation on earth IS antisemitism.
“Whataboutism” defined.
I am sure that if the US was killing as many, as fast, people wouldn’t like them either. The truth is, Israel is killing more people than Russia right now and they are not popular either. Is that antisemitism too?
The UN says that since the start of the war, about 100,000 people in Gaza have been killed, injured or are missing.
What the fuck are you talking about? That’s not why they didn’t shake hands. They were accused of antisemitism by an Israeli player, who refused to elaborate, and that’s the reason the Irish team refused to shake hands.
You didn’t read the article obviously. And/or have an axe to grind
It’s anti nationalist, your equation of isreali = semites is actually the bigoted statement.
The same behaviour was shown towards Russian athletes with regards to the invasion of Ukraine. Judging by your logic that would be, idk, anti-orthodox? Russophobic? It’s symbolic and has nothing to do with the their opinion of the people they are competing against. It’s not antisemitism, plain and simple.
If you’d read the article you’d know the Israeli team called them anti-semites first.
That’s because they foresee the future. Placing bets must be very easy for them
So what was it when the US boycotted the 1980 Olympics? Just unmitigated, unfocused meanness?
no it isn’t
Great display of standing up against false “anti-semitic” claims, when criticizing the politics of Israel.
The article unfortunately does not state who won…does anyone know? The BBC basketball section obviously doesn’t, at least I couldn’t find it there.Edit: The article actually states the result. Israel won 87-57. :/
Says is the article “which Israel won 87-57”
I seem to have skipped multiple times over that information. Thanks and sorry BBC!
Its even in the TLDR summary…quite embarassing. 😯
It’s true then, Jewish team was being discriminated because of their nationality but they won nonetheless because they are doing what God would’ve done too. Right? Right?? /s
Did the volleyball players kill Palestinian children?
In addition to what Squizzy said, Israel has conscription, so there’s a very good chance these athletes are / were members of the IDF. So it is entirely possible that they did engage in atrocities against Palestinians.
Why did modern Germany engage in restitution after the war if the Nazi regime was finished the people did not support the actions of the government or in more recent cases, were not alive for the actions that part of their taxes go toward making up for?
It is inerrant to sport to be political. People are competing in teams based on political borders. Issues won’t disappear because it’s sport. It’s socially here and teams take these with them.
Inherent*
If anything, sports serve as a distraction to the general public so that issues can continue to be ignored
then dont compete against israel, but going and not shaking hands but still promoting (in a way) the israely team just feels wrong. its like going to qatar to play but wearing a rainbow flag, its virtue signaling nothing more.
Ireland’s top players abstained
its like going to qatar to play but wearing a rainbow flag, its virtue signaling
People didn’t even end up wearing rainbow flags because they were threatened with consequences. it was basically virtue-signaling-signaling
Yeah, embarrassing through and through
Sports serve as a distraction for social issues. I would argue virtue signalling in that context has some real world impact
We have to show that we’re better than them and win.
I will edit comment, because it was poor taste and inappropriate, thus the responses
But still, this sounds at least the way Soviet sports teams were supposed to always be the best to prove a point of Soviets being best in everything. That’s not how things work, you don’t prove your point by beating someone, in sport or otherwise.
I don’t agree with the other reply calling you an antisemite but that is still a huge stretch just to compare people to nazis. Have you never played a sport before
holocaust inversion is textbook modern antisemitism.
Now that is a fucking stretch. If you compare Jewish people with Nazis, don’t complain when people call you an antisemite.
Jewish people =/= Israeli state.
yes, you are right: some israeli basketball player =/= the israeli state. sukhmel@programming.dev compared something a jewish individual said “We have to show that we’re better than them and win” to nazi ideology (“arian superiority”). Which is insane and antisemitic.
Moreover, comparing the israeli state to Nazi Germany is antisemitic as fuck too. There is no comparison to be made. It is trivializing Nazi ideology.
Go off queen
how am I supposed to understand this, what is the context here?
An Israeli player said “It’s known that they are quite anti-semitic” and the entire irish team felt so offended by that that they decided not to shake the hands of the israeli team? To show them how unfounded the allegations are?
What are the details here? the article doesn’t really say much
You too, seem to misunderstand the same thing that the Israeli team misunderstood.
SwedenIreland does not like what Israel is doing to the Palestinians.SwedenIreland has nothing against Jews but does not like Israel’s genocide on Palestine. There is a difference between the country and the religion and antisemitism is used for the religion alone.It’s like if you argue that you’re getting downvoted because of antisemitism when you’re actually being downvoted because you are wrong. It has nothing to do with religion
That’s cool but we’re talking about the Irish basketball team.
Sorry
And the Israeli basketball team is the one commiting genocide somehow?
By calling Ireland antisemites, for not liking what Israel is doing to Palestine, they are not really distancing themselves from it are they.
Were they calling Ireland anti semitic in general or were they calling the basketball team anti semitic? Because I think we both know that most of Ireland is pro Palestine and calling Irish people anti semitic for that would be outrageous, but do we know whether or not the statement about the basketball team has any proof to it?
I believe that this is the exact point of the article. The way I read it, the Irish team was facing pressure to not play the game due to Israel’s actions and I believe that the comment from the Israeli player was pointed at this.
that’s what’s odd about it. The article says the reason the team didn’t shake hands was because of ‘wholly inaccurate accusations of antisemitism’. So does that mean they would have shaken hands if one of the israeli team members had not made that accusation? Or were they just looking for a reason? This is what seems odd to me. If we imagine Ireland playing against an african nation that is also torn by war and conflict. If one of their team members accused the irish team of racism, and as a consequence, the entire irish team refuses to shake hands with the African team because they are so offended by these accusations. That would be really weird. That’s why I asked for more context.
There is a difference between the country and the religion and antisemitism is used for the religion alone.
That is incorrect. Anti-Judaism is the (much older) component of antisemitism that is used for religion alone. While it is wrong to say that any criticism against israel is antisemitic, it is equally wrong to say that criticizing Israel is never antisemitic. in some cases it is. Sadly many people refuse to have this discussion. Israel exists because of antisemitism, not the other way around.
You need to edit Wikipedia for you to be rigt
Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism)[a] is hostility to, prejudice towards, or discrimination against Jews.[2][3][4]
It says Jews not Isrealis and we’re back to it being about religion and not the nationality
I don’t. If you click on “Jews” on the wikipedia it says right in the beginning:
Jews (Hebrew: יְהוּדִים, ISO 259-2: Yehudim, Israeli pronunciation: [jehuˈdim]) or Jewish people are an ethnoreligious group[12] and nation[13][14][15][16][17]
The jewish are a people. Many of them aren’t even religious. Antisemitism created israel. and not the other way around.
Here another wikipedia article on distinguishing antisemitism and criticism of Israel.
It sounds like you are right, but I don’t feel this is the way it’s being used. Or maybe the world is moving towards a distinction and seperatuon of the two?
Also, what do you mean with Israel exists because of antisemitism?
Well I think the reality is really complex and intertwined. Jewish people live in Israel because, historically speaking, they aren’t safe anywhere else. In this context here: It would be safe to say that the jewish player’s ancestors sought refuge in Israel because they were not welcome in the country they previously lived in (That could be Germany, Russia, Yemen, Iran etc). Many of them had no other choice and for many, Israel was the only hope for a life in dignity and safety. Completely separating jewish identity and israeli identity is impossible, it is connected.
but I don’t feel this is the way it’s being used
In a way I agree. The concept of anti-semitism is used when it is convenient. People are called anti-semites when they call out the war crimes commited by Israelis far right government, and likewise people categorically refuse to acknowledge that criticizing israel can be antisemitic. It is totally polarized, and people don’t care about context anymore.
what do you mean with Israel exists because of antisemitism?
Zionism is a movement founded by european jews who have suffered from persecution for centuries. So they believe that to protect themselves from their oppression, they needed an own nation. Jews started to understand themselves as a people. And not to mention, The Shoa made millions of people seek refuge in Israel/Palestine after world war two. So in short, if anti-semitism wasn’t a thing, the nation-state of Israel wouldn’t even be an idea.
Well I think the reality is really complex and intertwined. Jewish people live in Israel because, historically speaking, they aren’t safe anywhere else.
I hear this claim a lot. But in the view of the recent killing of over a thousand Israeli’s this really doesn’t seem to be true. Israel also constantly claim to be surrounded by hostile nations which would eradicate all of them given the chance. From this perspective countries like the US, while far from being free of antisemitism seem more safe for Jews than Israel.
The only thing Israelis in Israel are safe from, is antisemitism from the sate. But as we’ve seen the state has catastrophically failed to ensure the safety of their citizens. And they continue to make the whole situation worse and are currently ensuring that at least for one or two generations the hatred between Israel and Palestine will continue.
I can see how a lack of context could be confusing, but Irish leadership have condemned Israel’s genocide in Palestine and compared it to The Troubles and other past conflicts between Ireland and the larger Great Britain. Basically, Ireland and Israel have poor international relationships because Ireland doesn’t like the way Israel slaughters tens of thousands of people while starving out millions based solely on ethnicity.
This bad relationship has affected how the two sports teams interact with each other, and the Israeli pre-emptively insulted the Irish basketball association officials and team leadership before the match even began, so of course they won’t be given bare minimum mutual respect when they show up to the matches in the future.
and the Israeli pre-emptively insulted the Irish basketball association
All I can find is that one team member called the irish team ‘quite antisemitic’. I just don’t see why that would be so upsetting. If it is unfounded, move on, don’t make a big deal out of it. For some reason, being accused of antisemitism is a bigger of a deal than actually being antisemitic. And that is the reason why I am confused about it. One Israeli player says the irish team is antisemitic, the irish team gets angry and refuses to shake hands. Alright. But what is the context here? what exactly are the reasons why the israeli player made these accusations? And why does nobody care about the context? Everyone already decided whether the accusations are unfounded or not, without even knowing anything about the context. Imagine someone being accused of racism without being given any sort of context. And everyone already has an opinion whether the accusation is unfounded or not. It’s just weird.
As far as I understand, you’re confusing the reasons here.
- the Israel team had called the Irish team known anti-Semites, because of Ireland’s political stance
- the Irish team did not shake hands because of Ireland’s political stance that they seem to share
- Ireland’s political stance is caused by Israel’s actions in Palestine
Nothing that you say needs context is causally related, and no context other than that provided by others in this thread seems to really be needed
yeah, I think it is strangely twisted. It has nothing to do with the accusation of anti-semitism, it is just israel they don’t like. They never wanted to shake the hands of the israeli team, and just used the player’s comments as a reason.
Because it’s part of ongoing verbal attacks by Israel at Ireland. This isn’t an isolated incident it’s part of a much wider whole.
The accusation is 100% unfounded, the Israeli players are just idiots representing with pride a nation run by bloodthirsty killers. There is no room for benefit of the doubt, here. Tolerance ends with the intolerant.
With a history as messy and complex as Palestine/Israel, yeah, obviously there is room for doubt. Refusing to have a discussion here doesn’t help anyone.
The accusation is 100% unfounded,
you don’t even know why exactly the player made these accusations. you’re just making assumptions.
Tolerance ends with the intolerant
Please, tell me precisely at which point the israeli team proved themselves intolerant?
Its not that messy and its not that complex. Modern Israel was created as a place where antisemetics could send jews post WWII. That involved relocating the current residents who took the land by force previously. Israel forces Palestinians into districts with lower form of citizenship. Then Israel took more of the land. And more. And when people refuse to leave or have nowhere else to go then Israel creates a reason for the conflict and kills them.
Netanyahu helped install Hamas as leadership in Palestine and keep them funded. Its all pretty straightforward. Israel is a genocidal apartheid state.
Sorry, you can’t explain what is happening there in 5 lines of text and just say it is “not that messy and complex”. It might seem all straightforward within the narrative that you subscribe to, but that is at most only a part of the story. Just Have the decency and acknowledge that.
Removed by mod
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Ireland women’s basketball team refused to shake hands with Israel before their EuroBasket 2025 qualifier in Riga.
Basketball Ireland said the comments were “inflammatory and wholly inaccurate”.Ireland players also lined up for their anthem beside the team’s bench rather than the centre of the court before the game, which Israel won 87-57.
The match, which was moved to Riga because of the ongoing war in Gaza, went ahead despite Basketball Ireland facing pressure to boycott the fixture.
Basketball Ireland’s statement prior to the start of the game read: "Basketball Ireland informed Fiba Europe yesterday that as a direct result of recent comments made by Israeli players and coaching staff - including inflammatory and wholly inaccurate accusations of anti-Semitism, published on official Israeli Federation channels - that our players will not be partaking in traditional pre-match arrangements with our upcoming opponents.
"This includes exchanging of gifts, formal handshakes before or after the game, while our players will line up for the Irish national anthem by our bench rather than centre court.
"In an interview on the Israeli Basketball Association’s website, United States-based student Saar said: "It’s known that they are quite anti-semitic and it’s no secret, and maybe that’s why a strong game is expected.
The original article contains 420 words, the summary contains 204 words. Saved 51%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Religious people are mentally ill and should be treated as such.
No, its the irish team refusing to shake the hand of the israely team, not the whole country, this headline is misleading. Also, wtf is the basketball team of israel supposed to do if their political leaders go ham? i dont get it.
Thanks for clarifying. The headline led me to believe that the team refused to shake hands with the entire nation of Israel, as is known to be the traditional pre-match arrangements of any game.
The point being that their action is misguided.
Also missed the point, that the where calling the antisemitic BEFORE they did anything I guess its justified.
I don’t get your points. The headline refers to the Irish team rather than the whole country as you appear to claim, and the Irish team members refused to shake hands after the remarks by an Israeli player which has nothing to do with their political leaders. Maybe I get this wrong but I don’t understand your comment.
It says >Ireland women’s basketball team refuse to shake hands with Israel
Not the isreali team.
Yeah, if taken literally you’re right, but isn’t that clear in the context? The Ireland women’s basketball team wouldn’t shake hands with the whole of Israel, right? It’s what is meant imho.
Well, it is common that the term “Israel” is used in a very generalizing way. “Ireland refuses to shake hands with Israel’s Basketball team” it would be misleading in a similar way, but this generalization is so common that people don’t really notice it anymore
Also, wtf is the basketball team of israel supposed to do if their political leaders go ham?
If they don’t agree with the current politics of their country? At the very least be very outspoken about it or just don’t play at all under their flag. If you play for a national team in an international competition between nations, then of course you do represent the country. And that representation of course also includes current actions which many find at least very concerning.
Or you can just label anyone who criticises Israel as anti-semitic. That’s after all what the right wing extremists of Israel do constantly to shit blame away from their disgusting actions.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
Critiscing the actions of the state of Israel does not equal antisemitism
The volleyball team didn’t kill any Palestinian children.
So how about don’t discriminate against them based on where they were born?You didn’t read the story did you? They didn’t shake their hands because one of the players accused the Irish team of being antisemitic. This was published the official team website
deleted by creator
Shame on you for not reading the article.
First the Israeli team insulted them as being antisemitic, obviously because Ireland stands with Palestine.
Therefore they refused to exchange politenesses in advance of the game.
It was the Israelis who started behaving badly. You know just like the conflict that didn’t start on October 7.
deleted by creator
Maybe read the article before you make inaccurate statements?
They didn’t shake their hands because one of the players accused them of being antisemitic in an interview published on the team website
Sorry we don’t support genocide.
TIL playing volleyball = genocide when you’re born in the wrong country.
Is the purpose of international sport not to represent your country? The country currently murdering innocent civilians in their open air prison.
The purpose for the players is to play their sport.
They did play the sport, they didn’t shake hands with those representing a country engaged in war crimes.
Ever heard of conscientious objectors?
Seriously, you could have at least read the article to get the sport right.
Probably would have helped with grasping the situation better. They did play, they just didnt want to be insulted as anti-semitic without a reason.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
How do you reconcile the two? The Israelis have murdered indiscriminately across refugee sites and civilian cities. They are targeting protected buildings, using collective punishment and are responding far out of what would be considered in kind.
deleted by creator
Enjoy the read you fascist bootlicker
They won’t. At best they’re a sealioner. I’d move on
Sealioner?
Ayyy! There is a nuance in being pro Israel and being pro Israel. Simply stating that you’re pro Israel, doesn’t cut it.
deleted by creator
It’s easy get peace when everyone else is dead. Pity you have to murder indiscriminately to get to that point.
deleted by creator
Your proof is in my other comment not that I expect you to actually read it but just so others can see the evidence you deny.
Speaking of Hamas, their declared goal is to kill all non Muslims in Israel.
Actions speak louder than words bud! Israel killing ten times as many Palestinians than the other way round for decades definitely does. Of course that was up until last October, since when the difference is far wider.
deleted by creator
Israel isn’t deliberately targeting civilians
Omfg there’s no way a sane person could believe that.
Am Irish btw. No love for hamas, but every sympathy with Palestinians. And full support for our basketball team.
How many of the 12,000 children killed in the conflict were combatants?
Well, you’re making a fair point in some regards. I agree that the two state solution is forfait, but the general opinion is pretty pro-palestine on Lemmy. I respect your courage or ignorance in that regard. However, I think that any opinion is bullshit anyway. Hamas has done plenty to justify Israel’s reaction, but Israel’s reaction is completely off the shelf as well. I don’t think we, regular folks, in the west, can not trust media coverage in this regard to form an unbiased opinion, because media coverage is just another battlefield these days.
How can you say that Israel’s response is justified and overblown? It would have been justified to respond to the terrorist attack, it is a war crime to bomb hospitals and refugee camps. Israel has killed more toddlers, 2-6 year old children, since October than Hamas has killed in total in their attack and since.
A state has a right to defend itself but it’s spineless to sit on a fence and call it centrist. Israel’s response is ridiculous and if it was Iran we’d have lost our fucking minds already.
deleted by creator
I don’t agree that when you’re gay, you should just dislike any muslim country, but I appreciate to hear your opinion about it. (I do agree that their treatment of gays is wrong though) I agree that that’s what an online community shoul be about. Different folks discussing different opinions. That’s what makes the internet awrsome, not advertisements and profits. Just discussions and closing the gap of polarisation.
There doesn’t seem to be any evidence though. It looks like the Israeli team made unsubstantiated accusations so you can’t really blame the Irish team for reacting.
Lol I found the bot
deleted by creator
Oh good one. You really nailed me with that zinger.
