The next step wouldn’t be abandoning democrats, it would be getting democrats in power, getting rid of the republicans (because they’ve provably turned into an enemy of the United States of America), and then creating an actual left party, and having the democrats become the new right wing.
For at least 5 minutes, I’d bet, we’d have a sane right wing.
This. We need to move the country to working for the people. The way you do this is by consistently voting for the best representative of the people. You don’t need to start by having the perfect option. If the most progressive candidate is a Democrat, even if they aren’t progressive, you vote them in. When the fascist consistently lose, then that democrat is the right wing which frees space for a more progressive candidate.
Leaping to a perfect candidate would be amazing. Taking steps in the right direction is still good and worth our energy.
Americans are fucked either way, and that’s the crux of it. Both highly corrupt parties blowing smoke up their ass and they’ve all been socialized to regard third options as jokes, meanwhile the establishment is the real joke. There is no good solution, only shades of shit.
QUICK! DONT VOTE AND LET THE REGRESSIVE PARTY KEEP POWER! 🤣👍
Look at you talking as if there is no regressive party in the US
Literally the opposite of what I said, but cool. 👍
Or we’ll get another Kyrsten Sinema, who talked progressive talk then cashed out on billionaire lobbyist payouts.
I still say that POS needs to be sued into the ground as a lesson to the rest of them not to pull that kind of shady bullshit.
Spoiler: Democratic politicians wanted 80% of what Trump did. The 20% they didn’t want was all him going after his democratic enemies … but they take the bad with the “good”.
Then why are the republicans spending all their time undoing democratic initiatives.
Because that’s the game they play.
That is how the ratchet works. Republicans go insane when they take office and make cuts to everything except military spending, then dems get in and cut military spending … then feel like a bit of a calm after the storm. Dems dont reverse anything Republicans did … eventually Republicans get back in and around we go again.
Because the orange kid-diddler got his feeling hurt by the black president and has been actively undoing anything possible
This is part of what just erodes the hope out of me. We all know there are periods of regression and periods of progress, but whatever damage is caused by the regression period is
1- Caused much more quickly than any progress.
2- Is usually beneficial to the ruling class, thus they have less of an incentive to fix it.
3- Might just become normalized, at which point you’re just starting from square one all over again.
Like, age/identity verification. We are in a period of mass and widespread regression right now and age verification is making progress, eroding freedom and privacy on the internet. Do you think that when we enter the period of progress, the age verification systems of today will just be reverted? Fuck no. They’ll stay. They’ll become normal. And the fight against them will need to start from scratch, with an ever bigger amount of opposition.
I’m really jealous of the people who can maintain hope.
On the hopeful side, socialism hasn’t had this many proponents since the 1910s-1940s. We’re making huge strides in overturning McCarthyist propaganda, and growing exponentially.
Only in amurica would they sell people on the right to be fired for no reason and call it “right to work”
“Right to work” means you can’t be required to join the union, but the union is still required to bargain for you without you contributing to it. Its designed to defund and kneecap organized labor. It has nothing to do with firing.
At will employment is what lets the employer fire at any time, and that is the law in 49 of the states.
Welcome to the age of bad faith laws! Because if they were honest, they couldn’t lifestyle market conservatism to “people who like tradition”.
Getting fired is right to work. War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.
They call trusting your ignorance “faith” and its something you absolutely need lol
The termination for any reason is at-will employment, aka “will to work”. With that being said your point still stands because “right to work” is an anti union law that guarantees an employees right to refrain from being part of a union (lol). Both terms are dumb.
At-will employment and “right-to-work” are distinct ideas. The first has some real benefits, while the other is just union-busting bullshit.
At-Will Employment means that the relationship of employee to employer is technically voluntary. Your employer can fire you or lay you off for almost any reason or no reason, but you are likewise free to just walk away without even finishing your shift and get another job. (Non-discrimination laws and professional continuity-of-care rules are common exceptions.)
Right to work doesn’t affect whether or not your employement relationship is voluntary. Instead, it means only and exclusively that you can freeload off the union, getting all of their benefits and leaving them with all of the expenses of negotiating your salary and work rules.
In the USA most (but not all) states are “at-will employment”, and most red states have the same sort of bullshit anti-worker “right to work” laws that MLK was campaigning against when he was murdered. And, unfortunately, thanks to SCOTUS fuckery all of the USA is essentially “right to work” since the same assholes behind “corporations are people” and “money is speech” decided that payroll deductions for union dues are terrible in way that payroll deductions for taxes or insurance aren’t.
The problem with at-will is the unequal relationship corporations and employees have. If I, as an employee, simply walk off the job, that hurts my chances of employment at other corporations. A company, however, will never see any consequence no matter how badly they treat employees.
Exactly. You can walk away and get evicted and starve vs. they can make you walk away and get evicted and starve… This is what constitutes fairness by modern democratic standards, apparently.
Understand that the precursor to at-will employment was that you walk away from your job and get arrested for breaking contract, and your family gets evicted without you able to earn money to pay for their food or shelter.
Like the other commenter says, it’s extremely flawed but serves a purpose.
“There used to be something worse” is not the same as “the current thing is good”
That’s still the law under at will employment, if you sign a contract, you can’t just quit anymore. We lost the protection of one year contracts, like you really think it’s better for employers to be able to fire you with no warning than having one year contracts?? This all happened centuries ago of course
No one is saying that at-will isn’t also bad for workers, but it’s less bad than what came before it.
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Didn’t Biden undo a lot of shit that Trump has done during his first term?
Performatively he did, then reinstated most of what he dropped. Did nothing with his tax cuts for the rich, which checks out, as VP he worked directly with McConnel to muster votes to make the bush tax cuts for the rich permanent. He kept his border policies, war policies, etc. Continued to lie about the condition of the economy. Blue Fascism is a close relative of the red version
The one that sticks out to me as an example was Cuba. In the very last days of Trump’s first term, he put Cuba on the official list of “state sponsors of terrorism”. This is patently absurd claim that has no evidence to support it. At the time, it was largely seen just as a move to make things just a little bit difficult for Biden. There was no reason to do it other than make life harder for the people of Cuba.
When asked about whether Biden was going to take Cuba off the list, Jen Psaki basically said Biden has more important issues to get to. He never removed Cuba off the list like he could have with just a stroke of a pen. Instead of meaningfully engaging with Cuba to foster better relations - something Obama valued and pursued in his foreign policy - Biden just kept them on the list as well as all the other ways in which Trump tried to crank up the temperature on the people of Cuba. Now here we are on the verge of a potential invasion of Cuba.
The only reason that Obama tried any type of foreign relations with Cuba was to get ahold of their proven treatment for lung cancer. Once Cuba revealed that they were not giving that to the US, things fell apart.
His repeated platform was to raise the minimum wage.
So… here we are. Ds couldn’t be bothered.
BoTh of our parties should be dismantled, our “labor party” is shit, just like our “limited government” party.
So, are you saying that both “Coca-Cola” and “Pepsi-Cola” are owned by “Big-Cola”?
I’m saying the Cheerios and Lucky Charms may be 2 different cereals but they are both owned by General Mills to serve the same purpose.
…but one of the is actually not as bad for you as the other.
If the alternative to those two is to abstain from eating, then you will need to find an alternative source of nutrition. Those are the only two options in the pantry because you literally do not have the option to go to the store or plant a garden.
In this metaphor, we are comparing politics to food and the comparison breaks down
Stripped of imagery and stated simply: the state that has a monopoly on violence is ensorcelled by the inheritors, takers and exploiters to limit our options but to consider those options as identical is irresponsible and foolish.
We should not be resigned to fatalism or apathy.
You don’t need a governor to sign a bill if it has enough support
The Republicans have demonstrated that no, these things do not take time.
I asked for a gender inclusive restroom, was gaslighted those things take time. I then emailed CEO cc’ed chair of board of directors. It was converted in 2 days.
It was never about time, it’s about agency
Yep, it takes time for us peons but the dictators can do anything they please.
I wish that the Democrats had anybody who was willing to fight for Medicare For All the same way Republicans fought to overturn Roe v. Wade.
I would like to think that Bernie Sanders is one of those people.
Republicans have a propaganda network back then to fight against Obamacare (which isn’t even Medicare for all). It was really surprising how much the Republicans fought back given the zeitgeist was going the other way with Michael Moore and all that. The whole “death panel” stuff took the air out of the room and Republicans were going on non-stop about how it was the greatest injustice to all of America. It was wild.
Also, if you look at those that benefit from Obamacare and the fact that they’re losing it. They still hate that it’s associated at all with the Dems. It’s weird.
Bernie isn’t a Democrat, though.
Ah you’re right, he caucuses with them and stuff but he’s an independent, you’re right.
Calling him a democrat gives democrats credit for his activism. Activism they fought against instead of fighting against fascism.
If America was a school we’d have one party full of bullies smoking in the bathroom who don’t give a shit if one of their ranks breaks the rules so long as it’s not messing with them personally, and we’ve got another party full of brown nosers who will run and tell the teacher any time someone even thinks about using the wrong kind of pencil. Neither is good for the student body as a whole, but in very different ways.
Lisa Simpson ass fucking “opposition”.
And she’s dating Nelson.
The teacher? John Roberts & co.
Why would they need to be in the bathroom?
The school is bought and paid for.
Gotta keep up the aesthetics.
Add long as you brazenly break rules and laws, and your controlling party willingly does nothing about it
Let’s break some laws to make everyone better off.
The only law democrats are willing to break is the Leahy law.
but . . . but . . .but THE PARLIMENTARIAN said we need to keep slavery!
No that would be terrorism put the bread down Mr valjean
Breaking things is a lot faster than fixing them…
Particularly when you’re not interested in fixing them.
Have you ever broken an arm? A window? A car? A heart?
Fixing things takes time.
That doesn’t excuse not starting when given a chance. The focus should be on establishment Dems’ failures to start fixing things, not on setting some unrealistic expectation that all it would take is a snap of the fingers and bippity boppity boo.
In the words of James Baldwin, how much time do you want for your progress?
Democrats tell you that fixing things takes time so that you eventually give up waiting. Incrementalism is a tool of fascism to prevent progress.
How much time? Ideally none. But the real world isn’t idealistic, and breaking more shit because you can’t have what you want right now is what petulant children do.
I’m not defending the establishment Dems’ inaction, but I am cautioning against setting unrealistic expectations. Even if you vote out all the republicans and replace all the democrats with progressives, it will still take time to fix things.
And people’s ignorance about this fact is a key part of the republican strategy that keeps getting them reelected every other election cycle. They always break shit on their way out, leaving a mess for their successors to clean up, and they blame it all on the democrats in office after them.
So promoting this idea that you can fix everything overnight is only helping the republicans.
Incrementalism is a tool of fascism to prevent progress.
No, incrementalism is a necessary reality. The reason it doesn’t work is partly because the right people aren’t in office to implement it, and partly because when the right people are in office they don’t have enough time in office to implement it fully.
Get someone with the right intentions in office (a progressive), and give them enough time (at least two terms), with a congress that supports their agenda, and you’ll see incrementalism work as it’s intended.
Or you can complain that you can’t have everything you want immediately, and attack anyone who doesn’t give you everything you want right now, and when they never get into office for long enough with enough congressional support because nobody can pass your purity test, you’ll have plenty to complain about when literally nothing good gets done because you categorically rejected the idea of incrementalism.
California has a bulletproof Democrat supermajority and does not have livable wages, universal healthcare, affordable housing, affordable COL. So the argument that Democrats need more time Is verifiably false
Did I ever claim establishment Dems are willing to put in the necessary changes to move progress forward? Because California Dems are about as establishment/corporatist as you can freaking get.
I never said “give establishment Dems another chance.” I said “fixing things takes time,” and that will still apply even if you oust all the establishment Dems and replace them with progressives.
Please take your strawman argument somewhere else if you’re not going to actually read what I wrote and respond to that.
That doesn’t excuse not starting when given a chance. The focus should be on establishment Dems’ failures to start fixing things
And until they start fixing things, “fixing things takes time” holds within it the implicit lie that they’re trying.
not on setting some unrealistic expectation that all it would take is a snap of the fingers and bippity boppity boo.
You’re right. That’s only for netanyahu’s every whim.
Netanyahu’s whim isn’t about fixing things, more like breaking everything in Gaza, Iran, and southern Lebanon.
If you really think Gaza can be rebuilt as fast as it’s been destroyed, you’re going to have some unpleasant surprises whenever the world can pull itself out of this death spiral and start caring about humanity again…
You’re telling me that democrats break things and have no interest in fixing them.
What?
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When Democrats do absolutely nothing to counter anything that Republicans do, they are complicit and are to blame for everything Republicans do.
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Oh, please explain how it all works for us
Burning things down is easy, building them up takes time
Then start burning what the republicans built or fuck off.
Burn down systems of oppression, then. Oh wait. That also magically takes time because this stupid platitude is just the latest in a long line of excuses from the pawl of the ratchet.
Excuses excuses.
Yes, Democrats like to whine that they only got 60 votes in the Senate for a short period during Obama’s term. You want to know the last time Republicans had 60 votes in the Senate? 1911.
It’s been over a century since Republicans had that kind of majority, and I think back then the filibuster had a larger threshold to overrule, so they probably didn’t even have a filibuster-proof majority even then. You probably have to go back to Reconstruction to find Republicans with that kind of majority.
Do you know how Republicans dismantle programs without a filibuster-proof majority? They do it by cutting funding. They cut funding to programs and zero out their budgets. The program still exists in legislation; it just isn’t funded.
To fix that damage does not require breaking a filibuster. It just requires properly funding those programs again. And funding can be passed with just a simple majority.
And of course, much of what Republicans do is done by executive order, and that can easily be reversed by the next Democratic president.
Republicans are a monolith and vote in lockstep. Democrats are an un-unified big tent party encompassing every ideology from identical to republicans to social democrats. If everybody that doesn’t vote would vote for progressive candidates in every democratic primary and general we’d have a unified left of center party that could accomplish things. But instead of doing literally the only thing that can walk back the fascism all y’all keep working to get republicans elected.
What does that have to do with the conversation at hand?
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If they truly get a majority to override the president, or in the future can then make the tri fecta again, it’s easy to fix shit. Just make it what it was before, blast it through committees like the Republicans do with hardly a word from someone else. The question then is are Democrats incompetent or complicit.
Everyone knows they are complicit.
Of course there are two parties. They create the illusion of choice necessary for the political ratchet - one party to drive things to the right, the other as controlled opposition to obstruct movement back to the left.
What’s next, getting americans to believe their wrestling shows aren’t real?
I have concluded that the Established Democrats would rather that Trump or somebody like him is POTUS than to concede to the Left on anything, even on a morally highly charged subject like the mass murdering of tens of thousand of children (in Gaza) which at least for some people would make the Democrat candidate so repugnant that they couldn’t bring themselves to vote for her even “to stop Trump”
Had Kamala genuinelly conceded to the Left on some things and not latched on to none other than the Cheney familly (honestly, I don’t thing the Israeli subject was by itself enough to cause that loss), she could very well have won, but that faction of the Democrats would rather loose than stop cozing with the hard-right, so they lost to none other than Trump.
If what the Democrat tribalists were parroting back them about how Trump was so horrible and the Democrats needed to win to stop his policies was indeed how the Established Democrats felt, they would NEVER had risked a Trump victory by adopting a Reject The Left strategy at all levels.
All this to say that these people will never undo what Trump did to the broader society (though the parts that make them less electable - i.e. that affect their own personal upsides - I’m sure they’ll undo) because they’re totally fine with it, as shown by how in the last election they would rather risk a second Trump presidency to keep on going Right politically than to pivot Left in the slightest of ways.
Without a Revolution inside the Democrat Party, the US will keep on going in the same direction as these Democrats will do nothing but talkie-talkie on reversing Trump’s policies and then in a few years another Trump character (or, worse, a genuinelly intelligent one) get in power again.
I remember having this same conversation 20 years ago, except instead of Harris and Trump it was Kerry and Bush, and instead of Gaza it was Iraq. We didn’t get somebody smarter than Bush, though, we got Trump.
Here’s the thing. You don’t need to be a smart president to do a lot of damage. You can have smart people in your cabinet. You also don’t have to be very smart to break a ton of shit.
Then it’s too bad that we have one party that loves that shit and one party that’s willing to tolerate that shit as long as the minimum wage never rises again.
I’ll give you that.
The “smarter” part is just something I threw in but which I did not really pondered on all that much.
In all fairness “nastiness” is the only thing which seem to have moved (upwards) consistently.
They’ll give Trump a golden parachute, wish him the best, then continue the ratchet effect. Neo-liberals are as much enemies of democracy as the reactionaries.
until they rehabilitate him in 10 years as the reasonable example, compared to Emperor Bloodvein Crusader.
See George W Bush . . .
we must move forward and heal which is why we won’t push for charges or do any investigations
Just like they did with the bushes and Nixon and Reagan
If you cannot blame racism you can blame Reagan.
He already has his golden parachute. He’s been appointed the chair of “The Board of Peace” for the rest of his life.
Assume that Democrats win the next presidential election and enough seats in both the House and Senate to take meaningful actions.
Assume that there will be a peaceful transfer of power.
Assume that Trump doesn’t die in office.
If all of the above come to pass, and Trump doesn’t face real legal consequences for his actions, then it’s another in the long line of flashing neon signs telling would-be dictators that America is up for grabs for whoever strikes first.
Worse I’d say, they’re less upfront about it
I fear Dems will see just how easily we’ve bent over for the current administration, and realize they can get away with it too. I’ve said it ad nauseam – when did we decide to start trusting the government? Any government? I’m right in the middle of my expected lifespan, and I never once trusted my government. Why would I? They’ve done nothing positive for my generation, and every slight success is quickly dismissed or disqualified by the next dipshit with deep enough pockets to rule the land. This isn’t democracy, and it never has been. The “people’s vote” has never mattered. It’s just another smoke surrounded mirror providing the illusion that democracy exists. Hell, the only reason the word democracy probably exists in our history is to make us believe that such an impossibility is reality. Mark my words and those of others, the only difference between the two parties? One is full of fascist, pedophile, sex offenders and the other is full of fascist, pedophile, sex offenders. The female leaders in both parties are just enablers, otherwise they wouldn’t put up with the shit and take to the streets. Same for our more diverse leaders. If they rock the boat too hard, they’re out a paycheck and some sweet, sweet insider trading. The whole system is dead, and I fear revolution is the only answer to the madness. But we’ve become too complacent and docile to fight. We’re too busy trying to make ends meet to have the necessary reserve energy to fight for rights which probably never truly mattered in the first place. Just stuff written down that **we’re **advised to follow or face penalties. None of the people in power ever follow their own rules or the rules commanded by the people. When I say we are doomed to the point of extinction, I mean we are DOOMED. There’s just no way for even the lamest human to find any reliability, accountability, or faith in governments that have outwardly shouted that they’re not to be trusted and could give a shit about your life.
love the righteous anger but you gotta try to stay positive my bru
Sounds positive to me!
