Man with money wants to steal yours to fund a risky bubble? What could possibly go wrong?
It could also take $Trillions to make better EVs or solar panels or sneakers than China. Instead of spending $Trillions, just buy Chinese AI, and make them invest in US datacenters. The need for sectoral supremacy is objectively/purely for war against China “value”. This necessitates a skynet goal for military and information/population control supremacy. Neither skynet nor war on China will make your (non corrupt insider) life better.
Hey its like I been saying for a while now:
Oh you think you have a 401k huh?
That’s cute.
Oh so you guys didn’t give a fuck about China’s superior railway system, their better electric cars, and their other areas where they have on par, or superior tech than we do. But when they have better AI you guys want the country to bend over and get fist fucked.
Get the fuck out of here.
We don’t care about better EVs, we will protect our buggy whip industry at all costs to our own consumers
Then they will cry for a bailout when they inevitably fail. Again.
But when they have better AI you guys want the country to bend over and get fist fucked.
It’s legit infuriating to see the Chinese economy investing in bluesky R&D, which has the long term benefit of better software, cheaper hardware, and more useful technology. All while American politicians insist “We need to build more hand cranks and charcoal fire pits to power our billionaire sponsored CSAM engines!”
All this while US Tech Companies turn increasingly to religious hacks to launder their shitty apps and platforms.
Yep we’re a nation that’s captured by venture capitalists and they are draining the country dry.
The rest of the world should not do business with these vultures.
And there it is folks, the end of the pension plans nationwide.
Go after the few remaining pensions in the US so this blackrock chud can buy another yacht. Guillotine time for sure. The only remaining people who contribute to pensions are teachers, firefighters, public employees who make shit salaries anyway. This guy wants to float their AI adventure on the backs of working people.
Better idea: tax billionaires. They’re the main beneficiaries, they should pay.
Fuck Blackrock.
Simple equation we need trillions you have trillions.
Why does US feel the need to compete with China? It’s going to play out just like when Soviets tried to keep up with the US spending
Because the oligarchs in the West recognize that their power will vanish once the people stop thinking of China as an enemy and instead objectively compare the quality of life for the average person in the 2 countries
It’s the final Pillaging stage of a society which is almost entirely structured to maximize rent-seeking of the Owner class.
The snake is eating itself.
Fucking idiots
What the actual f#*k…
This is like a daytime robbery.
Let’s start with law congressional pensions and 3rd party law enforcement contracts, yeah?
So that’s why nasdaq is changing their rules for SpaceX IPO?
I suspect Musk did it first and now that guy wants in on the scam too
That guy actually loses out if Musk et al fuck up Nasdaq. Blackrock makes money from management fees and those decrease when the fund’s value goes down.
But BlackRock also has Chinese index funds so that’ll make up for the shortfall, he doesn’t really give a fuck if the US wins the “AI race” or not.
Only that fuck from nvidia cares, if US wins they sell more chips. If they loose they have competition. Fortunately China just announced a new chip technology “projected to deliver capabilities comparable to 1.4-nanometer process technology by 2031” so we’ll eventually have competition to bring down prices.
But China isn’t spending trillions on their AI…
Why do we need to spend trillions to stay ahead of someone who is only spending billions? Might be worth looking into whatever leak in the system is extracting so much money we need to spend 1000x what our competitors are spending just to keep up. We could start by looking at people who have hundreds of billions of dollars at the heads of the AI companies, looks like a few hundred billions might have slipped into their wallets by accident. I’m sure they’ll be happy to give it back to the people.
Because China has taken the open source route with their AI and are allowing people from all over to use/contribute to their models. You cannot outspend what they are getting for free, and while our companies compete with one another to be the one true AI company, China’s companies/citizens are cooperating with one another to build their AI.
They will win the AI war simply by not playing the capitalism game, all while undermining the enormous investment the US has made into our AIs.
Uh that’s not how this works. They’re not open source, they’re open weight. Well, the smaller distillations are. The big ones are still closed. And it takes a bunch of compute to train them, but they’ve learned to be thriftier since they don’t have access to nearly as much parallel compute as the American companies right now. The models also tend to trail in performance. Takes a lot less to compete for third place than first.
Why is this being downvoted? It’s factually true.
I’d love actual open source training somehow. But at the moment I don’t think an asynchronous training mechanism that would enable this exists, given that running the flagship models on even a small batch of data requires massive compute power.
DeepSeek is one of if not the most popular Chinese AI and is open source and requires a small amount of computing compared to others. Its used in numerous Chinese car brands, smart phones, and even government services throughout China.
China isn’t competing for Third they are leading the world in AI development and have already integrated it in many areas.
Again, at the very least, no, they’re not open source. Open-weights means anyone can download, use, and tinker with them a bit, but there is no access to their code, training data, or process.
It’s just as limiting as closed source software with some modding allowed, but not as limiting as an online-api-only model, as many of the most powerful modern models are.
There are no heroes in the Global Powers’ race. The USA is a comically cartoonish villain in real life, yes, but all the biggest Chinese data centres for all that training, are still built in poor areas (Inner Mongolia and the bullshit that China has apparently inflicted on them), and still fucking over those who live there.
It’s abuse all the way down.
You mean all of this code that is clearly on their github: https://github.com/deepseek-ai? They release both their model weights as well as the source code for their AI. You can literally take what they have provided to create your own LLM if you would like to and get a good understanding of their AI. Sure you can’t see the training data but that would be like putting the entirety of the internet in a github repo and just isn’t feasible, but you can contribute your own training data to a local setup of deepseek and shape it in a way you want to.
You’re talking like you know what you’re talking about, but you clearly are guessing. Knock it off. Don’t mask conjecture as fact.
The training data is as important as the source code here to replicate the end result. The weights are more like a binary distribution. You can run the model and you can technically edit it just like you can technically edit a binary file.
They also only release some libraries and tools for running the model if you have a set of weights (which they do graciously provide), but they do NOT release the source code for their training pipeline itself. That’s up to you to reverse engineer from the whitepapers. Right now even if you had the exact training data and the compute available, you could not train your own Deepseek V3.2, let alone V4.
If people on Lemmy can’t understand this I have no hope for the average person.
Haven’t they clearly documented how they did it and what they used so that anyone can replicate it? Anyone with the compute power, which of course few have. But universities could do it.
So how is it not open source in this specific domain of problems? What would a LLM model need to do to be open source then? Duplicate the whole training dataset in a big zipfile for you to download?
From what I understand you could even replicate deepseek by replacing the “cold start” with latest deepseek instead.
Haven’t they clearly documented how they did it and what they used so that anyone can replicate it?
They don’t put up the actual code for their training pipeline though. It’s more of a “if you have enough engineers, you can do this too” whitepaper, because they wouldn’t want any rando training their own model.
Right now, even if you had the exact training set (which is a CRUCIAL part of an LLM and you can NOT replicate it without it), you couldn’t rebuild the thing exactly, you’d need to do a whole lot of extra work.
So how is it not open source in this specific domain of problems?
You could call all proprietary software open source then. The UI and user manual describe what it does, you can do your own engineering to duplicate the functionality.
Why even have this discussion? Self-learning algorithms appeared more than ten years ago. AI is being used very effectively in countless areas.
The idea that there is some sort of prize waiting for whomever gets the most computing power, is highly dubious.
