• voracitude@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    Would you believe that the people in a democracy look poorly on attempts to overthrow that democracy? Shocking stuff, but it’s true.

    Unrelated, I do have questions. I find myself wondering where you came by your taste for leather. Did you acquire it later in life or were you born with a boot in your mouth? And is the brain damage from licking up all the polish, or being dropped repeatedly on your head?

    • Dr. Wesker@lemmy.sdf.org
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      9 months ago

      I’ve never seen someone both frothing at the mouth and have a raging hard on at the same time.

    • rug_burn@sh.itjust.works
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      9 months ago

      And to be fair, the US isn’t a “democracy”. It’s a constitutional republic with democratically elected representatives. Semantics, I know, but accuracy counts.

      • vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        9 months ago

        Nobody means “universal direct democracy” when they say “democracy”. Not the ancient Athenians, not the Swiss, nobody.

        This is a very disingenuous talking point.

        • rug_burn@sh.itjust.works
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          9 months ago

          It’s not a talking point. Seems quite a few Americans don’t know what our actual form of government is called. Accuracy counts.

          • vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            9 months ago

            Words mean what the people using them agree that they mean.

            You are holding a minority position here. It would seem you do not know what your form of government is called.

              • ReakDuck@lemmy.ml
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                9 months ago

                Well, you are correct by a minority. But incorrect by the majority.

                Its called perspective and language. Study papers need to define the word sometimes from the ground up so the paper becomes understandable.

        • rug_burn@sh.itjust.works
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          9 months ago

          Democracy, by definition, is 50% +1 vote, otherwise known as “mob rule”. That would be an even shittier system to live under.

            • Rustmilian@lemmy.world
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              9 months ago

              I just want to point out that the majority of people are manipulated by massive corporations on a daily basis. They just use it for immediate profit by getting them to buy things. They could easily start manipulating people for political gain, of which they’ve tried in the past with varying degrees of success.
              This is expressly what a constitutional federal republic (a specific type of democracy) is meant to prevent.

              • lolcatnip@reddthat.com
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                9 months ago

                You mean this?

                I know exactly what fascism is. Being anti-democracy does not in itself make you a fascist, but it’s a very strong sign that you are. Either way you’re an asshole and I don’t particularly care what flavor of asshole you are.

                • rug_burn@sh.itjust.works
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                  9 months ago

                  And you’re a fuckwit! Name calling is fun!

                  Never thought being pro-freedom meant fascist to intellectuals such as yourself. A system that could swing from election to election based on one vote seems pretty fucking horrible tbh, especially in the US with our deep partisan divdes. Imagine the sheer horror the libs would go through whe the country went 50.0000000001 to 49.9999999999 conservative and abortion became illegal for 4 years! Bet you’d hate democracy then!

                  For the record, I’m solidly pro choice, pro 2A, athiest and couldn’t care less who you want to spend your naked time with. Find another lazy insult, fascist already wore itself out, and it doesn’t describe the people you think it does - bet you agree with keeping Trump off the ballot. “Democratic”, indeed.

          • deft
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            9 months ago

            lol no it doesn’t

            Voting like that is certainly democratic but that’s not the definition of democracy dumb dumb

            • rug_burn@sh.itjust.works
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              9 months ago

              democracy noun de·​moc·​ra·​cy di-ˈmä-krə-sē plural democracies 1 a : government by the people especially : rule of the majority b : a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections 2 : a political unit that has a democratic government 3 capitalized : the principles and policies of the Democratic party in the U.S. from emancipation Republicanism to New Deal Democracy— C. M. Roberts 4 : the common people especially when constituting the source of political authority 5 : the absence of hereditary or arbitrary class distinctions or privileges

              • deft
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                9 months ago

                Yep exactly. What you said is not included in there dumb dumb

                • rug_burn@sh.itjust.works
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                  9 months ago

                  If you’re incapable of clicking a link, we can go to the host stand and get you a placemat and some crayons. The US is not a democracy, by definition, regardless of what your kindergarten teacher is telling you.

    • rug_burn@sh.itjust.works
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      9 months ago

      Because it’s funny. His own AG stated he wouldn’t be fit to stand trial in a case regarding the classified documents he was illegally in possession of. I will fully admit I’m more Trump than not, but put up a funny Trump meme and I’ll laugh along with you. Last actual funny anti-Trump meme I can recall was one of those “Ladies, find yourself a man who looks at you the way Trump looks at Ivanka”. That actually generated a giggle. The shit I see nowadays is lazy “Orange man in jumpsuit!!! He go jail!”. That shit’s not funny, it’s dumb. I’ve seen some pretty dumbass Biden ones too.

  • NutWrench@lemmy.ml
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    9 months ago

    I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of gaffes Biden has made over the last two years.

    Trump can’t go a single day without making a fool out of himself.

      • deft
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        9 months ago

        We do that’s why his support has fallen to shit.

        I live in a heavy battleground area. The flags are gone, the big wooden signs people put up are gone. Every election cycle shows those on his side lose.

        So yes keep talking about it, people are hearing and listening.

    • voracitude@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      Replace “an old man” with “an old man who betrayed his oath of office and our country”, and watch the like/dislike flip instantly!!!

      Fixed that for you. Stop pretending like treason is okay.

        • donuts@kbin.social
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          9 months ago

          Just because he wasn’t charged with treason doesn’t mean he didn’t commit treason by advocating an armed insurrection against our democracy. (See: the US post-Civil War Reconstruction Era for further examples.)

          And if you want to why he wasn’t charged for that, it’s because of Republican Special Counsel Ken Starr’s disastrous opinion that sitting presidents are above the law and can’t be prosecuted, and must instead be impeached–which, if you remember, Trump was, not once but twice. Of course now Trump is arguing that he’s still above the law and deserves “total immunity”, which only further shows that he is, in fact, a wanna-be dictator.

          Saying “Trump wasn’t charged with a crime so therefore he did nothing wrong” and “Trump can’t be charged with a crime because current and former US Presidents must have total immunity from prosecution” is very clearly circular logic.

          • rug_burn@sh.itjust.works
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            9 months ago

            Well, you should probably elect better representation if you feel he committed treason by telling people to peacefully and patriotically make their voices heard, and that super treasonous decree telling everyone to go home. Considering not even AOC or Ilhan Omar brought up charges of treason, gonna go ahead and guess that there’s literally zero evidence, let alone reason to even try, but you seem to know more than they do. Also, for a dictator, he did a pretty piss poor job of remaining in power. Also pretty sure Ken Starr never stated sitting presidents are above the law, we do still have the impeachment process, which you also brought up. Yes, he was impeached (brought up on charges) by a liberal house, but was subsequently acquitted (found not guilty) by a conservative senate.

        • voracitude@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          Oh, he didn’t need to be charged; it’s been ruled that he fomented an insurrection in the Courts, and that’s treason. Now that gets kicked up to SCOTUS for review, but here’s where you’re in trouble: if any higher Court including the SCOTUS wants to overturn that ruling, they’re going to have to show their work as to why, and they can’t, because it’s simple fact as shown by the video evidence of the day and sworn testimony by everyone who didn’t hide behind the Fifth Amendment.

          Now. I don’t expect you to accept any of that, but it’s dangerous to go alone, so take this block. It won’t help you, but much like everyone you’ve ever cared for I’ll be happy never thinking about you again. Okay okay, that was excessive; I didn’t really mean it. I’m sorry.

          • rug_burn@sh.itjust.works
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            9 months ago

            Pinpoint exactly how he tried to remain in power. The peaceful transition of power occurred on 1/20/21 as scheduled, nary a violent incident to be found. Your zeal to see a man you disagree with destroyed, being fed by pure idiots as well as some who have far more nefarious intentions, is undeniable. Reams of documents and thousands of hours of video evidence still haven’t surfaced. Yet they keep feeding you lie after lie. If such evidence existed, it would be plastered all over the news, and I would stand beside you to throw him in prison.

            On a different topic, but one that’s more in line with the meme posted that started all this, do you agree that Biden should be impeached and put in prison for what remains of his life for the documents he was in no way legally allowed to take possession of after his time as vice president, nor were they secured in any way, shape or form? Or do you agree with AG Garland that he’s unfit to stand trial?

            • voracitude@lemmy.world
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              9 months ago

              Huh. I can’t seem to block you from this instance; I don’t know if that’s a lemmy.world problem or a sh.itjust.works problem. Ah well, since we’re still here: https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2023/12/23SA300.pdf

              • A large group of people forcibly entered the Capitol, overwhelming law enforcement officers on site.
              • The mob was armed with a wide array of weapons, including metal bars from police barricades and officers’ batons and riot shields.
              • The mob violently assaulted police officers throughout the day, using actual and threatened force.
              • The mob coordinated and demonstrated unity of purpose, marching through the Capitol, chanting threats against members of Congress and Vice President Pence.
              • Upon breaching the Capitol, the mob pursued its intended target—the certification of the presidential election—reaching the House and Senate chambers within minutes.
              • The mob’s unified purpose was to hinder or prevent Congress from counting the electoral votes and certifying the 2020 presidential election, effectively halting the electoral certification process.

              The transfer of power happened in spite of Trump, not because he didn’t make the attempt. Rebut the Court, not me. But this would require you to read, which I know you won’t do, and argue in good faith, which you aren’t and won’t.

              As to your second topic: Of course, as long as you’ll agree that whatever sentence Biden gets Trump also gets but to greater scale, to reflect the difference in both the number and sensitivity of the documents retained. See, that’s the difference between Democrats and Republicans: we’re willing to hold our leaders to account and we expect them to be subject to the same laws the rest of us are.

              • rug_burn@sh.itjust.works
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                9 months ago

                Sure a bunch of fuckwits did some dumb shit, and quite a few did some really bad shit. For all of them, I fully support throwing the book at them. However, there is zero proof that Trump is culpable in it.

                If you really want to block me but can’t, I’ll go ahead and stop engaging you. I fully respect your wishes and I’m truly sorry if whatever I said somehow caused you grief. I wish the best for you and hope that someday you’ll look back on this conversation objectively, and not through a lens polarized by political beliefs.

                • voracitude@lemmy.world
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                  9 months ago

                  Read the ruling I linked and all the cited case law in it. Here’s some relevant portions:

                  The question thus becomes whether the evidence before the district court sufficiently established that the events of January 6 constituted a concerted and public use of force or threat of force by a group of people to hinder or prevent the U.S. government from taking the actions necessary to accomplish the peaceful transfer of power in this country. We have little difficulty concluding that substantial evidence in the record supported each of these elements and that, as the district court found, the events of January 6 constituted an insurrection.

                  It is undisputed that a large group of people forcibly entered the Capitol and that this action was so formidable that the law enforcement officers onsite could not control it. Moreover, contrary to President Trump’s assertion that no evidence in the record showed that the mob was armed with deadly weapons or that it attacked law enforcement officers in a manner consistent with a violent insurrection, the district court found—and millions of people saw on live television, recordings of which were introduced into evidence in this case—that the mob was armed with a wide array of weapons. The court also found that many in the mob stole objects from the Capitol’s premises or from law enforcement officers to use as weapons, including metal bars from the police barricades and officers’ batons and riot shields and that throughout the day, the mob repeatedly and violently assaulted police officers who were trying to defend the Capitol. The fact that actual and threatened force was used that day cannot reasonably be denied.

                  Substantial evidence in the record further established that this use of force was concerted and public. As the district court found, with ample record support, “The mob was coordinated and demonstrated a unity of purpose . . . . They marched through the [Capitol] building chanting in a manner that made clear they were seeking to inflict violence against members of Congress and Vice President Pence.” And upon breaching the Capitol, the mob immediately pursued its intended target—the certification of the presidential election—and reached the House and Senate chambers within minutes of entering the building.

                  Finally, substantial evidence in the record showed that the mob’s unified purpose was to hinder or prevent Congress from counting the electoral votes as required by the Twelfth Amendment and from certifying the 2020 presidential election; that is, to preclude Congress from taking the actions necessary to accomplish a peaceful transfer of power. As noted above, soon after breaching the Capitol, the mob reached the House and Senate chambers, where the certification process was ongoing. Id. This breach caused both the House and the Senate to adjourn, halting the electoral certification process. In addition, much of the mob’s ire—which included threats of physical violence—was directed at Vice President Pence, who, in his role as President of the Senate, was constitutionally tasked with carrying out the electoral count.

                  If you want the links and citations, they’re in the PDF; the text is largely unedited, I just removed paragraph markers and numbering. But you’re not sorry, and you don’t respect anyone. You’ll deny and deflect and trot out any meaningless tripe in response to actual evidence, because you don’t want to live in this reality. That’s why I don’t want to engage with you anymore. The best you’ve got is a “nuh-uh 🤡”. Good luck with that, and good day.

            • vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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              9 months ago

              Pinpoint exactly how he tried to remain in power.

              He tried to get a mob to murder his own vice president.

              We were there. It was not too long ago. We remember.

              The fact that he’s crap at seizing power doesn’t mean he should get away with it. In fact, guess what usually happens to failed golpistas.

    • hendrik@lemmy.ml
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      9 months ago

      Didn’t Trump love to talk about that Alzheimers/Dementia-Test he once took and how well he performed and remembered that 5 things they asked him to remember? This sounds like a joke I already heard. Maybe we can look up the dislike ratio from back then.

      • rug_burn@sh.itjust.works
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        9 months ago

        I do recall something like that, and I recall him passing it. The dude brags all the time about dumb shit, I will wholeheartedly agree to that.

        Your point?

        • hendrik@lemmy.ml
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          9 months ago

          My point?

          The statement was: “Replace Joe with the evil orange man […]”

          My point is, no need for that. The orange man is way ahead of you. I’d credit him for coming up with that meme, years ago.

          • rug_burn@sh.itjust.works
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            9 months ago

            Your statement was about the cognitive test he was bragging about, that’s what I was responding to. I fully admit that Trump will brag about anything, not sure where you were going with that statement. If you’d like to take it in another direction, feel free.

    • CTDummy@lemm.ee
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      9 months ago

      Yeah post that are low effort “orange man bad” don’t get shit on and deleted all the time you muppet.

        • CTDummy@lemm.ee
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          9 months ago

          Literally not defending anyone. Learn to read. It’s in my post history disputing misinformation about Trump and clicking on the post show it as deleted but I know facts won’t get in the way of your feelings.

    • utubas@lemm.ee
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      9 months ago

      Lemmy feels way worse than reddit when it comes to bias. Tankies and freaks everywhere