Your car is collecting and selling your data—from driving habits to voice recordings—without your full consent. Learn how automakers, insurers, and even law e...
Modern cars are spy hubs on wheels, tracking your location, conversations, and behavior.
I’m not saying to capitulate, but building them yourself is not an option. First, they need to meet certain regulations. Most homemade vehicles can’t. Second, there’s already a federal law (maybe a bill) in the US that says some of these systems are required for new vehicles, IIRC. It does not make an exception for homemade vehicles. Maybe they can be disabled, but still technically in the vehicle?
Or americans can grow a spine and stand up to this overreaching bullshit. Stating there is a law and nothing can be done is american capitulation. You ether roll over or fight this sort of stuff, but if you roll over you don’t get to sit on a high horse.
People have been making stuff since stuff was made, or do you think everything ever was made from a company’s factory? This “nothing can be done” shit has gotten to such a degree of putting the boot on your own neck that you are saying its not possible for people to make a motor vehicle without backing.
If people did make there own cars (or more likely use old frames) and did not put spy tech into their own stuff what’s the government’s recourse? Enforcement at this degree is not possible, hell you americans hardly have a rule of law left.
The first paragraph is not really relevant to this thread. Yes, people should be fighting back. Sure. Things are happening regardless though.
People have been making stuff since stuff was made, or do you think everything ever was made from a company’s factory?
Making things to function at home is great! We should do more of that, and more FOSS. However, driving on a public road requires that you meet certain conditions. You can’t just throw a lawnmower engine on a set of wheels and call that enough. Yes, it’d drive, but it wouldn’t be legal. There are many types of vehicle that function that are not road legal. It is possible to meet those requirements with something built at home, but it requires serious technical knowledge, skill, and equipment. It also still has to conform to state and federal regulations.
Also, I agree with this, assuming it isn’t abused. I’m an Anarchist, but even I see the need to regulate vehicles people should be allowed to drive. We’re driving tons of steel at each other at high speed, just inches apart. You’re subjecting others to the danger you create. If your car breaks and swerves into incoming traffic at 60mph, that isn’t something the other party willingly consented to. It is the government’s role to protect people from harm. We go too far usually, but it needs to exist. I don’t want to be on the road where a bunch of homemade junk that hasn’t been regulated is driving around.
Regulating a car to spy and make actions based on that spying is not a valid regulation outside of a nightmare.
And no it is not the government’s role is to protect people from harm, this is “think of the children” sort of shit that leads to bad law. Ether we are responsible for our actions or are under control. I don’t want to share the road with these new vehicles but apparently have no say, this nonsense is why we all get to live in clown world.
The single greatest safety invention in automobiles by reduced death and injury was the collapsible steering column, everything since has had diminishing returns. In the last 10 years we have seen auto accidents increase (lots of pedestrian strikes) due to stupid new vehicle design. Yet we don’t see the demand that new stuff is pulled from the road, instead we see the demand for new rules putting more bad ideas in. This is and never had been about safety.
Regulating a car to spy and make actions based on that spying is not a valid regulation outside of a nightmare.
Obviously. I’m pretty sure I stated that. Regulations are needed though, so people making shitty cars in their garage is not a reasonable expectation. It’s just like I don’t expect people to build their own graphics cards on their own. Is it possible? Sure. Is it feasible? Hell no.
And no it is not the government’s role is to protect people from harm, this is “think of the children” sort of shit that leads to bad law. Ether we are responsible for our actions or are under control.
Ok, I’ll throw you a softball. Let’s say there’s a corporation that wants to use your labor, but doesn’t want to pay you. They buy up all the housing in the area, and all the stores, and they refuse to allow you to buy food or shelter unless you give them your labor, and they’ll give you a credit that you can only use at their stores. That’s bad, right? The government should be there to protect the people from this exploitation, right? If not, the people end up with no freedom.
Again, it should be limited, but it is necessary.
This is and never had been about safety.
Some of it has. You can watch vehicle safety tests and see the improvement. Crumple zones, for example, are pretty great. I agree though, the new designs should be regulated to be less likely to kill pedestrians. Front ends should not be allowed to be that high or flat, like they are now. Do you not agree? Sure, this isn’t being done right now, but you would agree with it being done, right?
Ok, I’ll throw you a softball. Let’s say there’s a corporation that wants to use your labor, but doesn’t want to pay you. They buy up all the housing in the area, and all the stores, and they refuse to allow you to buy food or shelter unless you give them your labor, and they’ll give you a credit that you can only use at their stores. That’s bad, right? The government should be there to protect the people from this exploitation, right? If not, the people end up with no freedom.
The company store is small back (called loyalty programs), all this is again happening it stopped before due to some very violent incidents and the political fallout forcing legal change. Like most of the government backed rights given. You are discribing the difference between a well run nation (where this shit gets regulated due to the betterment of the state) and the us. Its not the government’s job to protect its people from themselves, but to govern a nation towards a better future while keeping outside powers in check. It can look like the government is protecting people, but having that mindset is how you get a police state (see america).
We both agree that regulation is needed, but we don’t agree on why and the clear limits that have been crossed. Automobiles are not safer, in fact there are more “accidents” then ever due to blinding lights, over reliance on automation/sensors and limited visibility. What the new standards have done is make crashes more survivable, basicly the idea of fuck you I got mine in large metal and plastic form.
The more people just roll over and take it the more of a circus we all live in. Clown world is going strong just on the inertia of inaction. Americans used to stand up against things they did not agree with, it was called civil disobedience (and more) and got shit done. Now the people of the states get new horrors a dystopian novel would have a hard time coming up with on the regular and they treat it as if its some other peoples issue.
Not quite that much in most cases, but yes a good electric conversion is always in the 5 digits. My old Ranger would be $20K in today’s dollars to full convert, if done professionally and correctly. And there’s enough rust problems with a frame from the early 90s that you question if something like that is worth it in the long run.
Sure, but IIRC, there’s a federal law requiring certain devices to be included in a new car. That probably doesn’t include a rebuild, but it could if that becomes a popular enough option to avoid it. It’s also usually quite expensive.
Yeah and even if someone is just making barebones frames for kit builds, I think there are legal limits on the number of kit cars that a single shop can do in a year. But those are corporate protectionist laws that we should probably get rid of.
I looked at it at one point (quite a while back) and yes, it was more than a new car usually. It alone was about the price of a new car, like $30k IIRC (again, many years ago I think pre-covid even). You also need to include the car, so add a few thousand, or more depending on the car.
Yeah, it’s definitely something to look into. It’s not a bad deal at least. It just costs a lot because it’s mostly unique work for a single vehicle, rather than a factory pumping out the same one over and over.
That’s fair yeah… But I wouldn’t mind an EV, only an EV with all the data connection and all that bs, so this could be a good deal for me in the future
I have seriously thought about doing this. I believe if your car is stolen, your insurance will not pay out if you have disconnected the antenna. It’s probably not enough to stop me from disconnecting the antenna, but it’s infuriating how much the whole system works against privacy.
What data exactly is it going to upload? There’s a finite amount of data that can store and I’d imagine with the chip/storage costs on the rise no manufacturer is going to be using a larger onboard storage device. They’re all too damn cheap for that
GPS coordinates and timestamps. Metadata from biometric photos. Your sexual habits from the seat cushion sensors (this is in their own privacy policy)
A large part of their income is selling this data to police (or anyone who pays the data brokers, really). It’s cheap to store and it would be stupid for them not to.
It can be relatively cheap if you dont care about having an extreme range. I know someone who turned an old beetle electric, and it just runs off of ~10 lead acid batteries if i remember right. Not a huge range, but enough to go to work and get groceries.
Just don’t buy a new car. Simple as.
I want to have my cake and eat it too, though (privacy plus electric).
I’m looking at the new electric Slate pickup. As far as I can tell, this is the one EV that might not spy on us.
I already made my deposit.
That’s not going to be a choice forever though. Even the best maintained cars eventually fail.
Then we build them ourselves. Capitulation is not inevitable.
I’m not saying to capitulate, but building them yourself is not an option. First, they need to meet certain regulations. Most homemade vehicles can’t. Second, there’s already a federal law (maybe a bill) in the US that says some of these systems are required for new vehicles, IIRC. It does not make an exception for homemade vehicles. Maybe they can be disabled, but still technically in the vehicle?
Or americans can grow a spine and stand up to this overreaching bullshit. Stating there is a law and nothing can be done is american capitulation. You ether roll over or fight this sort of stuff, but if you roll over you don’t get to sit on a high horse.
People have been making stuff since stuff was made, or do you think everything ever was made from a company’s factory? This “nothing can be done” shit has gotten to such a degree of putting the boot on your own neck that you are saying its not possible for people to make a motor vehicle without backing.
If people did make there own cars (or more likely use old frames) and did not put spy tech into their own stuff what’s the government’s recourse? Enforcement at this degree is not possible, hell you americans hardly have a rule of law left.
The first paragraph is not really relevant to this thread. Yes, people should be fighting back. Sure. Things are happening regardless though.
Making things to function at home is great! We should do more of that, and more FOSS. However, driving on a public road requires that you meet certain conditions. You can’t just throw a lawnmower engine on a set of wheels and call that enough. Yes, it’d drive, but it wouldn’t be legal. There are many types of vehicle that function that are not road legal. It is possible to meet those requirements with something built at home, but it requires serious technical knowledge, skill, and equipment. It also still has to conform to state and federal regulations.
Also, I agree with this, assuming it isn’t abused. I’m an Anarchist, but even I see the need to regulate vehicles people should be allowed to drive. We’re driving tons of steel at each other at high speed, just inches apart. You’re subjecting others to the danger you create. If your car breaks and swerves into incoming traffic at 60mph, that isn’t something the other party willingly consented to. It is the government’s role to protect people from harm. We go too far usually, but it needs to exist. I don’t want to be on the road where a bunch of homemade junk that hasn’t been regulated is driving around.
Regulating a car to spy and make actions based on that spying is not a valid regulation outside of a nightmare.
And no it is not the government’s role is to protect people from harm, this is “think of the children” sort of shit that leads to bad law. Ether we are responsible for our actions or are under control. I don’t want to share the road with these new vehicles but apparently have no say, this nonsense is why we all get to live in clown world.
The single greatest safety invention in automobiles by reduced death and injury was the collapsible steering column, everything since has had diminishing returns. In the last 10 years we have seen auto accidents increase (lots of pedestrian strikes) due to stupid new vehicle design. Yet we don’t see the demand that new stuff is pulled from the road, instead we see the demand for new rules putting more bad ideas in. This is and never had been about safety.
Obviously. I’m pretty sure I stated that. Regulations are needed though, so people making shitty cars in their garage is not a reasonable expectation. It’s just like I don’t expect people to build their own graphics cards on their own. Is it possible? Sure. Is it feasible? Hell no.
Ok, I’ll throw you a softball. Let’s say there’s a corporation that wants to use your labor, but doesn’t want to pay you. They buy up all the housing in the area, and all the stores, and they refuse to allow you to buy food or shelter unless you give them your labor, and they’ll give you a credit that you can only use at their stores. That’s bad, right? The government should be there to protect the people from this exploitation, right? If not, the people end up with no freedom.
Again, it should be limited, but it is necessary.
Some of it has. You can watch vehicle safety tests and see the improvement. Crumple zones, for example, are pretty great. I agree though, the new designs should be regulated to be less likely to kill pedestrians. Front ends should not be allowed to be that high or flat, like they are now. Do you not agree? Sure, this isn’t being done right now, but you would agree with it being done, right?
The company store is small back (called loyalty programs), all this is again happening it stopped before due to some very violent incidents and the political fallout forcing legal change. Like most of the government backed rights given. You are discribing the difference between a well run nation (where this shit gets regulated due to the betterment of the state) and the us. Its not the government’s job to protect its people from themselves, but to govern a nation towards a better future while keeping outside powers in check. It can look like the government is protecting people, but having that mindset is how you get a police state (see america).
We both agree that regulation is needed, but we don’t agree on why and the clear limits that have been crossed. Automobiles are not safer, in fact there are more “accidents” then ever due to blinding lights, over reliance on automation/sensors and limited visibility. What the new standards have done is make crashes more survivable, basicly the idea of fuck you I got mine in large metal and plastic form.
The more people just roll over and take it the more of a circus we all live in. Clown world is going strong just on the inertia of inaction. Americans used to stand up against things they did not agree with, it was called civil disobedience (and more) and got shit done. Now the people of the states get new horrors a dystopian novel would have a hard time coming up with on the regular and they treat it as if its some other peoples issue.
My 2010 Honda is trucking along but I wanted to upgrade to a hybrid… Fat chance of that happening.
Now I’ll ride this one until it dies.
Can’t you get older car rebuilt into electric? Seems like it could give it some more years. Correct me if I am wrong tho, I am not great at cars lol
For $50,000 …then you get an old car no one can fix.
Not quite that much in most cases, but yes a good electric conversion is always in the 5 digits. My old Ranger would be $20K in today’s dollars to full convert, if done professionally and correctly. And there’s enough rust problems with a frame from the early 90s that you question if something like that is worth it in the long run.
Sure, but IIRC, there’s a federal law requiring certain devices to be included in a new car. That probably doesn’t include a rebuild, but it could if that becomes a popular enough option to avoid it. It’s also usually quite expensive.
Yeah and even if someone is just making barebones frames for kit builds, I think there are legal limits on the number of kit cars that a single shop can do in a year. But those are corporate protectionist laws that we should probably get rid of.
Would hope for EU to not have these laws, but I feel like that would be too much hope
The EU seems to being going full steam on destroying privacy too, so I wouldn’t bet on it.
Unfortunately yeah… I believe they are talking about reviving Chat Control 1.0 today… Once again
The institution can propose the unpopular policy more times than a population unable or unwilling to alter the institution can smack it down.
True, so far we’ve been fighting this peacefully, and they keep coming back… Maybe we need to push harder against
A lot of states dont have inspections anymore. How would they know if I converted an old car to an EV?
Some companies do offer this for a quite hefty price.
Heftier than a new car?
I looked at it at one point (quite a while back) and yes, it was more than a new car usually. It alone was about the price of a new car, like $30k IIRC (again, many years ago I think pre-covid even). You also need to include the car, so add a few thousand, or more depending on the car.
Closer to $50K. It’s a lot of specialized labor and those shops charge $200/hr.
Considering there aren’t any new cars I want and the average price of one is about that much it sounds good to me.
If I already have a car I like that sounds like an awesome deal.
Yeah, it’s definitely something to look into. It’s not a bad deal at least. It just costs a lot because it’s mostly unique work for a single vehicle, rather than a factory pumping out the same one over and over.
That’s fair yeah… But I wouldn’t mind an EV, only an EV with all the data connection and all that bs, so this could be a good deal for me in the future
You will spend $50K on a car that is subsequently worthless.
So will I. I hope to time it just right.
Then I’ll get a horse.
horses are expensive to upkeep too, even more so than cars.
That’s a whole new ethical dilemma, ride a bike!
Will a bike walk me home after a night of drinking? I think not.
Drunk Japanese businessmen have been known to steal unlocked mamacharis to get home, returning them the next day with an apology note.
@Semi_Hemi_Demigod @Cethin
check whats inside when you buy ;-)
Physically disconnecting the broadband antenna is always a solid option too
For as long as they let you. Watch, soon they’ll be required to connect to the network at least every 30 days to function.
so you splice a switch into the antenna wire.
They can’t require connectivity or all cars would stop in tunnels.
You make switching RF sound easier than it is, but this is quite possibly the solution.
That or taking the train, but those have their own problems (including not being available in all places).
I have seriously thought about doing this. I believe if your car is stolen, your insurance will not pay out if you have disconnected the antenna. It’s probably not enough to stop me from disconnecting the antenna, but it’s infuriating how much the whole system works against privacy.
Don’t buy it
I’ll make the guess our next reply is “what if it’s every car!?”
It won’t be. Buy
usedproven.Nope. I’ll just upload your data when the mechanic plugs into the computer
What data exactly is it going to upload? There’s a finite amount of data that can store and I’d imagine with the chip/storage costs on the rise no manufacturer is going to be using a larger onboard storage device. They’re all too damn cheap for that
GPS coordinates and timestamps. Metadata from biometric photos. Your sexual habits from the seat cushion sensors (this is in their own privacy policy)
A large part of their income is selling this data to police (or anyone who pays the data brokers, really). It’s cheap to store and it would be stupid for them not to.
I guess if you write this enough times it becomes true. How much data do you think a control module stores?
Probably more than 30 years?
Burning fossil fuels is not acceptable
Big, ugly, expensive cars that I can’t fix myself with tracking software and touch screens are unacceptable.
Besides, I’ll get more horsepower from E100 and if it’s a diesel I can use fry oil.
It may surprise you, but even older cars can be refitted with an electric engine. It isn’t very cheap, but there’s no surveillance there.
It can be relatively cheap if you dont care about having an extreme range. I know someone who turned an old beetle electric, and it just runs off of ~10 lead acid batteries if i remember right. Not a huge range, but enough to go to work and get groceries.
My dad used to have a bunch of old Mother Earth News magazines and electric conversion kits were advertised in all of them.
An electric engine is called a motor
Drama queens here…you can unplug the antenna on any car. No need to McGuyer/A-Team it.
Cars break air gaps at the mechanic when they plug into the computer.
This doesn’t work
You going to a mechanic every day? Stop buying GM.
I don’t own a car, partially because this issue doesn’t (yet) have a solution
You’re advocating for mass extinction
I have never bought a car, why should me not buying a new car lead to mass extinction?
You best start believing in mass extinctions: We’re in one.