I think this is a specific form of imperial core naivete.
Most people on this site are so vastly out of touch with the reality of what others are like. Lots of our posters are from deeply blue US cities, and I think that really skews what they think conservatives are like because they’re only seeing the conservatives of suburban Chicago. An average Nebraskan moderate would blow their minds. The only people here I see with an accurate read on how completely demonic the average American is have spent a significant amount of time living in deeply red, rural areas.
I also think masc-presenting white guy types hear the horrible shit other white people and particularly white men say to other white people, and they assume that’s actually the extent of it. They see how white men self-censor in mixed company and they completely fail to consider that when there aren’t any other white guys to self-censor in front of, the things they say and think about women and minorities become a thousand times more reactionary than even the awful shit they’ll say to other guys.
Western Leftists want to believe they’re better than the bad guys and can walk the high road, but all of that comes from being in a relatively comfortable position within the imperial core, where they are insulated from the worst of imperialism and class war. They hate the idea of having to kill family members and coworkers, so they will invent this idea that the fascists they hold affection for are redeemable individuals, no matter how many times they’re told to their faces by those very fascists that they will never, ever change their minds and how they’d fight to their death and kill dozens of innocents to prevent any one of the left’s goals from being achieved in any way.
I grew up in such a rural right wing place that I had a class of 34. My dad was a fox news fuck face and I’ve heard the stuff you are talking about. But I have also seen a range of people who think they are conservative have a variety of views and can be pushed one way or another. I mean this is basic Marxist theory. Not everyone who is a Republican is sitting around twirling a mustache thinking about how they want to do the things Israel is doing with dogs in these concentration camps.
That isn’t to say we spend time sifting through them like we were the Christian god. We focus on overthrowing the ruling class and fixing things and people will make the choice for us a lot of time.
Even Mao talks about at a certain point one should be careful about the heads that one cuts off cause they won’t grow back. And he very much was about killing the bastards.
I’ve seen you post around before and I could be wrong but you normally seem more level headed then this. I feel like something has happened and you are having a real rough time of it. I apologize if I’m jumping to conclusions but I legitimately hope things are okay and if they are not they get better.
I totally agree with you on this, and I don’t think we need to start identifying reactionaries or indiscriminately pacifying them right now. I just think it’s naïve to assume that there’s only gonna be like a couple of hundred people that make the bad choice instead of tens of millions of them.
Like, Israel has 10 million ideologically committed fascists demanding a faster genocide and fewer than half a million of their citizens in opposition, of whom more than half have already left the country. I think many people a decade or so ago would have assumed Israel to be a much more even split than 20:1.
I think it would be foolish to make the same sort of assumptions about the Imperial core. Everyone in this discussion wants to assume that the ideologically committed fascists in the US are this tiny fringe minority, but I think they’re going to be amazed by the number of self described liberal progressives who will go full fash, in addition to the chuds.
Even Mao talks about at a certain point one should be careful about the heads that one cuts off cause they won’t grow back. And he very much was about killing the bastards.
One of the big groups that this has historically been about is the educated. Usually ones that worked within the former monarchy or managing empire.
I don’t really think this applies as much anymore, since basically every worker has an education. General administration work is not as centralized in the hands of a few professionals, and is instead dispersed across large groups of the working class using tools that are pretty readily available to everyone.
I graduated with a class where I was one of a handful of people who could read. Most of them did not go to college. No child left behind has had some disastrous consequences. That’s not even counting for the amount of people who have no idea what is happening around them for a large variety of reasons.
All of that to say, while it is understandable to think people should be more educated them back then, it just isn’t true. At least not in anyway that matters. People may know that the mitochondria is the power house of the cell, but they don’t know shit how the government works, finances, history, etc. (And the power house of the cell is grossly over estimated) and then some education is downright lies.
That’s the reason that a lot of tsarist scholars ended up being included in the Soviet apparatchik. They knew how the existing systems worked. These are really the only “heads that don’t grow back” that matter. The input of royals and propagandists aren’t critical to power transition, but the input of the 6 guys who designed the power grid is.
The average yankee literally doesn’t live in deeply red, rural areas. The US is split 80/20 between urban and rual.
I’m fully on board with a more permanent solution to the reactionary settler problem, but I just don’t think it should be conceived of as the average. These people are, ultimately, a relatively small portion of the US population as a whole.
Why would they mask if a majority of people agree with them? Masking is a response to being outnumbered, which means the masking is actually proof of my point. That’s why Trump has never won a majority of votes! Even this most recent election he only won a plurality. The reactionary settler cohort are simply not a majority of the US anymore.
Urban reactionaries are currently locally outnumbered on many issues, at least ostensibly.
Speaking of outnumbered, Americans on average are totally in favor of trans rights and have no reactionary beliefs on trans people, right? That’s why the DNC is completely reversing on this and most liberals seem to be in agreement with that decision. You haven’t been surprised to watch whiplash in the public-opinion-meter over the last few years on that one. Why do you think it’s impossible that other reactionary beliefs pervade every part of American society?
Would the state of masking be more representative of the average Autistic person’s true beliefs and feelings than a non-masking state, since most Autistic people are currently masking in public?
Your urban conservatives believe the same evil shit as our rural ones, they’re just mask-on. Ours will tell you their real thoughts instead of pretending. Look how quickly liberals are dropping the mask about Trans people. You’re gonna be amazed how fast people you thought were fairweather allies are going to join Atomwaffen.
![[CW RAGE INDUCING] Small souled ghoul gleefully boasts about taking a mild comfort away from Palestinians.](https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/da6c98b7-a08e-460a-b448-3117f6fd8695.webp){kind=link}
I think this is a specific form of imperial core naivete.
Most people on this site are so vastly out of touch with the reality of what others are like. Lots of our posters are from deeply blue US cities, and I think that really skews what they think conservatives are like because they’re only seeing the conservatives of suburban Chicago. An average Nebraskan moderate would blow their minds. The only people here I see with an accurate read on how completely demonic the average American is have spent a significant amount of time living in deeply red, rural areas.
I also think masc-presenting white guy types hear the horrible shit other white people and particularly white men say to other white people, and they assume that’s actually the extent of it. They see how white men self-censor in mixed company and they completely fail to consider that when there aren’t any other white guys to self-censor in front of, the things they say and think about women and minorities become a thousand times more reactionary than even the awful shit they’ll say to other guys.
Western Leftists want to believe they’re better than the bad guys and can walk the high road, but all of that comes from being in a relatively comfortable position within the imperial core, where they are insulated from the worst of imperialism and class war. They hate the idea of having to kill family members and coworkers, so they will invent this idea that the fascists they hold affection for are redeemable individuals, no matter how many times they’re told to their faces by those very fascists that they will never, ever change their minds and how they’d fight to their death and kill dozens of innocents to prevent any one of the left’s goals from being achieved in any way.
I grew up in such a rural right wing place that I had a class of 34. My dad was a fox news fuck face and I’ve heard the stuff you are talking about. But I have also seen a range of people who think they are conservative have a variety of views and can be pushed one way or another. I mean this is basic Marxist theory. Not everyone who is a Republican is sitting around twirling a mustache thinking about how they want to do the things Israel is doing with dogs in these concentration camps.
That isn’t to say we spend time sifting through them like we were the Christian god. We focus on overthrowing the ruling class and fixing things and people will make the choice for us a lot of time.
Even Mao talks about at a certain point one should be careful about the heads that one cuts off cause they won’t grow back. And he very much was about killing the bastards.
I’ve seen you post around before and I could be wrong but you normally seem more level headed then this. I feel like something has happened and you are having a real rough time of it. I apologize if I’m jumping to conclusions but I legitimately hope things are okay and if they are not they get better.
I totally agree with you on this, and I don’t think we need to start identifying reactionaries or indiscriminately pacifying them right now. I just think it’s naïve to assume that there’s only gonna be like a couple of hundred people that make the bad choice instead of tens of millions of them.
Like, Israel has 10 million ideologically committed fascists demanding a faster genocide and fewer than half a million of their citizens in opposition, of whom more than half have already left the country. I think many people a decade or so ago would have assumed Israel to be a much more even split than 20:1.
I think it would be foolish to make the same sort of assumptions about the Imperial core. Everyone in this discussion wants to assume that the ideologically committed fascists in the US are this tiny fringe minority, but I think they’re going to be amazed by the number of self described liberal progressives who will go full fash, in addition to the chuds.
This is true
One of the big groups that this has historically been about is the educated. Usually ones that worked within the former monarchy or managing empire.
I don’t really think this applies as much anymore, since basically every worker has an education. General administration work is not as centralized in the hands of a few professionals, and is instead dispersed across large groups of the working class using tools that are pretty readily available to everyone.
I graduated with a class where I was one of a handful of people who could read. Most of them did not go to college. No child left behind has had some disastrous consequences. That’s not even counting for the amount of people who have no idea what is happening around them for a large variety of reasons.
All of that to say, while it is understandable to think people should be more educated them back then, it just isn’t true. At least not in anyway that matters. People may know that the mitochondria is the power house of the cell, but they don’t know shit how the government works, finances, history, etc. (And the power house of the cell is grossly over estimated) and then some education is downright lies.
That’s the reason that a lot of tsarist scholars ended up being included in the Soviet apparatchik. They knew how the existing systems worked. These are really the only “heads that don’t grow back” that matter. The input of royals and propagandists aren’t critical to power transition, but the input of the 6 guys who designed the power grid is.
The average yankee literally doesn’t live in deeply red, rural areas. The US is split 80/20 between urban and rual.
I’m fully on board with a more permanent solution to the reactionary settler problem, but I just don’t think it should be conceived of as the average. These people are, ultimately, a relatively small portion of the US population as a whole.
The ruralites have already dropped the mask, the urbanites have not done so yet.
The average American does not live in a rural area, but they do hold incredibly reactionary beliefs.
Why would they mask if a majority of people agree with them? Masking is a response to being outnumbered, which means the masking is actually proof of my point. That’s why Trump has never won a majority of votes! Even this most recent election he only won a plurality. The reactionary settler cohort are simply not a majority of the US anymore.
Urban reactionaries are currently locally outnumbered on many issues, at least ostensibly.
Speaking of outnumbered, Americans on average are totally in favor of trans rights and have no reactionary beliefs on trans people, right? That’s why the DNC is completely reversing on this and most liberals seem to be in agreement with that decision. You haven’t been surprised to watch whiplash in the public-opinion-meter over the last few years on that one. Why do you think it’s impossible that other reactionary beliefs pervade every part of American society?
Wouldn’t cities be more representative of the average American than rural areas, since most Americans live in cities?
Would the state of masking be more representative of the average Autistic person’s true beliefs and feelings than a non-masking state, since most Autistic people are currently masking in public?
Your urban conservatives believe the same evil shit as our rural ones, they’re just mask-on. Ours will tell you their real thoughts instead of pretending. Look how quickly liberals are dropping the mask about Trans people. You’re gonna be amazed how fast people you thought were fairweather allies are going to join Atomwaffen.