Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.) said policy differences toward Israel between her and President Biden won’t stop her from supporting him in the November general election.
“Of course,” Omar said Tuesday, when asked by CNN’s Abby Phillip on “NewsNight” whether she would vote for Biden if the election were held that day, in a clip highlighted by Mediaite. “Democracy is on the line, we are facing down fascism.”
“And I personally know what my life felt like having Trump as the president of this country, and I know what it felt like for my constituents, and for people around this country and around the world,” Omar continued. “We have to do everything that we can to make sure that does not happen to our country again.”
I don’t understand why people don’t realize that trump is also a Netanyahu ally. They’re old pals.
It’s not like trump winning over Biden would change anything about the US policy on Israel- except probably make it worse, and trump winning over Biden would definitely make things in the US and pretty much everywhere else US policy affects worse.
As always, you can come right out and say you’re supporting Biden and say that Trump is worse, and you can count on someone to ignore it and lecture anyway.
“I will never vote for (Palestinian) genocide! But I will definitely refuse to vote against (Ukranian) genocide!”
Either they’re wedge-driving russo/right-wing bots, or they’re grandstanding only to shoot themselves in the foot on an issue they claim to care about.
Any rational person understands more people will suffer in both Gaza and Ukraine under Republican leadership. Period. That’s it. End of story. It’s election season, time to fall in line to save Democracy… Again.
I see what looks like a lot of virtue signaling. They have to let everyone know how extremely against genocide they are so that their social media peers recognize how decent they are. Stops them from seeing any of the many bigger pictures involved.
I had one (my first block here) that was trying to say that it was unknown whether Biden could be trusted to leave office after his second term voluntarily and that they were both dyed in the wool fascists but of course he(/she/they/it) defended only Trump throughout the thread.
i say we vote blue no matter who while making community allies and arming ourselves. the two are not incompatible.
Doesn’t sound like much of a democracy if I don’t really have a choice, now does it?
You have a choice. Getting everything you want is just not one of the options.
Yeah you get to make the choice, but don’t get to influence what the options are.
Well, you can have some influence via primaries, either voting, donating, or campaigning. But once the nominations are in place it’s just a multiple choice question.
Huh? Did anyone stop you or anyone else from running for President?
I’m not a fan of FPTP and think massive campaign finance and election reform needs to take place, but the choice presented right now is unfortunately a reflection of the broader electorate, and for better or worse that’s democracy.
Yeah actually. We’ve made money political speech and routinely refused to use public campaign financing. That pretty effectively bars 99.9% of people from ever running for president. And 98% from running for any office above local school board.
I wholeheartedly agree with money equating to speech being disastrous as to the healthy function of a democracy, but the complaint here doesn’t strike me as that. While we all know the game is skewed toward money, we should also know the better choice between these candidate couldn’t be more obvious.
That’s not what you asked. Restricting the pool of candidates to elites (money or connections) absolutely has an effect too. If it seems like our politicians are out of touch, that’s why.
Ok. If you’re going to play that game, then the obvious answer to what I asked:
… Is No, nobody stopped them from running. Money may help, but is not prerequisite to running. People also get money if they garner support. Hence the success of grassroot organization.
please don’t reply until you turn 30.
I’m 32, just not as propagandized as you. 😉
Democracy is all about falling in line…
Versus all of the other systems (single party communism, single party fascism, etc.) which are all about the freedom of choice. /s 🙄
My friend, you are absolutely right.
In two years, 587 children have died in Ukraine. In 5 months, 12,300 children have died in Gaza. These are not comparable. Israel’s conduct is far and away worse than Russia’s in terms of war crimes and crimes against humanity.
Everyone realizes it, but that doesn’t mean people want to endorse Biden’s stance on Gaza. He still needs to earn people’s vote if he wants them to go out to the polls and vote for him.
No, not everyone realizes that. You wouldn’t believe how many posts I’ve seen railing against “genocide” go on to claim that Trump would be tougher on Netanyahu. Saw one a couple days ago that even claimed that because Putin is such an ally of Iran and therefore Hamas that he’d be better for the people of Gaza. Which is just a mind fuck I can’t even understand being able to type.
For those who still don’t understand;
https://www.axios.com/2024/03/14/us-settler-sanctions-west-bank
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-israel-gaza-finish-problem-rcna141905
I would argue that progress like this is only happening because of the pressure on Biden from people saying they won’t vote for him if he continues to support the genocide. The biggest change was after the uncommitted movement in some of the primaries That’s why I’m okay with people saying they won’t vote for him, as long as they agree to vote for him if he continues to improve.
they get dumber every day
> You wouldn’t believe how many posts I’ve seen railing against “genocide” go on to claim that Trump would be tougher on Netanyahu. Saw one a couple days ago that even claimed that because Putin is such an ally of Iran and therefore Hamas that he’d be better for the people of Gaza.
you’re right: i don’t believe this. can you link it?
https://lemmy.world/comment/8336943
Why am I not surprised it was harderian making such stupid takes?
Hey look, it’s me! I can screenshot deleted comments I can still see (unless that’d get me banned)
But I don’t think that user was actually serious about Trump being better for Gaza – he was trying to set up a gotcha for a point that nobody actually made (about Trump being Putins lapdog).
that doesn’t say what you say it said.
Did you read all the comments?
yea. everyone agrees trump is worse for palestine in that thread
K
Haha they actually linked a sarcastic comment attacking a liberal line of reasoning and conflated it as a comment supporting trump. They… are beyond help and you couldn’t ask for a better finish
/thread
How does the comment not support Trump? Both lines of reason show Trump in a positive light.
hey you do good work so like… keep it up!
This is like suggesting the firefighter has to earn your trust before you let them carry you out of the burning building.
I’m not good at detecting sarcasm in text; less so when there’s no text.
I see a performative monkey. Was that the intent?
Different viewers take different meanings from that picture. However, I would guess that someone who is extremely anti-Israel would never be captured in a photo like that. From what I know, the above is a genuine image and it is not contested that Trump visited the wall in this manner.
It’s trump. He has no real position on anything except what he thinks might make him look good. I’d bet everything I have that he doesn’t even understand the situation enough to have a cohesive position, and just figured wearing a little hat and putting his hand on the wall like other people do would play well with a group he wants to like him.
He’s like a child. He’s said so himself. This photo is a publicity shot, nothing more.
Yet, I doubt we would find the leaders of HAMAS taking a similar photo. His participation in this ritual means SOMETHING.
It means he visited during peacetime and his handlers thought this would get him more Jewish support, which he was sorely lacking due to his very public antisemitic comments in the past.
It was very transparent. There’s no deeper meaning here than that.
e: and it worked in some circles, apparently, since some people are still posting this photo to argue he’s not an obvious antisemite.
Remember when Trump waved the pride flag. Republicans have gone full no holds barred with Trump. They want every person to be able to look to him and find something to latch onto.
It works. Except, anyone cursed with the slightest bit of reason can ask, “how can Trump respect people of color but align himself with white supremacists?”
After that novel breakthrough you have to rationalize trumps ties to the GOP and despite their outward tolerant behavior (sarcasm) they have quite the voting record showing their willingness to hurt marginalized people.
Here are some others:
“How can Trump be chosen by god but is a poster child for each of the seven deadly sins?”
“How come the world most successful real estate agent billionaire needs my 50 bucks to pay his legal fees?”
“How can Trump be pro LGBTQ+ but align himself with people who would strip LGBTQ+ people of their rights?”
“To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it, to believe that democracy was impossible and that the Party was the guardian of democracy, to forget whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again: and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself – that was the ultimate subtlety: consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then, once again, to become unconscious of the act of hypnosis you had just performed. Even to understand the word ‘doublethink’ involved the use of doublethink.”
― George Orwell, 1984
We don’t understand why Biden doesn’t stop supporting Israel.
Its like supporting Bibi would lose Biden votes, but not supporting him wont. Yet he still goes out of his way to support them.
You could understand if you wanted to. It’s the majority view held by the intelligence and foreign services of most western powers and virtually everyone in Washington. It’s not like they are hiding the explanation.
Try to see the bigger picture and what this proxy war means for the world. If thirty thousand deaths make you too sad to vote for Biden and that results in reelecting Trump, how sad will you be when Iran shoots its shot against Israel and we’re here on Lemmy talking about thirty million deaths and a cascade of failed states throughout the Middle East and eastern Europe fueled by the unprecedented humanitarian crisis and masses of refugees?
What does it mean for the world and for human rights everywhere if the western powers allow the only democracy in the middle east to fall to actual, for-real, far right religious extremists, who will actually, for-real genocide every Jew in the middle east in favor of an Islamic religio-ethno dictatorship?
How does ceding Israel to actual fascists advance the interest of lasting peace or human rights, especially if it ends up reelecting Trump, who will never leave office if he gets in again?
Maybe instead of throwing away democracy in America and the middle east, we can maybe appreciate that 30,000,000 is more than 30,000?
Maybe it makes more sense if we use America’s persuasive power to see Netanyahu and his party defeated at the ballot box? Wouldn’t that be much better for the world?
Biden isn’t the roadblock to peace in Gaza. He didn’t cause the situation or prolong it in any way. Israel has all the weaponry and fighters it needs to turn Gaza and the West Bank into a sheet of glass in about ninety minutes if it wanted. Even with conventional weapons, they could carpet bomb the entirety of Palestine many times over before the loss of US support disrupted Israeli’s defensive posture as to Gaza.
It is Israel’s posture as to Iran that dictates America’s course, and frankly it’s not that hard of a choice given the stakes. Continued support is continued leverage, whereas ending support ends any leverage America may have over what Israel deeply considers to be, more or less, a local police matter.
Excusing Palestinian deaths by saying 30,000 had to die so that 30 million in the future don’t get killed in some fantasy scenario that has not happened and is unlikely to happen.
This is what you are doing here.
Emotionally protecting yourself from 13 thousand dead children.
(Btw kids, please don’t vote for Trump, but also don’t allow bs like this to cheapen Palestinian blood)
lol. Israel is not a democracy. 5 million Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza are non-citizens without a vote. The PA is entirely under the thumb of Israel, and Palestinians in the West Bank live in apartheid. Gaza has been besieged and abused for 20 years. Your precious “Only Democracy in the Middle East” is a last bastion of proud European colonialism. The one colony that is still establishing new settlements and clearing “savages” from new land. America long ago divested itself of the Phillipines, but we pour money and weapons into our client colonial state between the river and the sea.
Can you name any country where non citizens have a right to vote?
Apartheid is something that a country does to its own citizens.
When a third of your population aren’t citizens, and in fact most of their families have lived there since the Ottoman Empire, while your citizens have mostly immigrated from abroad in the mid-1900s, and have pushed the non-citizens who predated them into ghettos, you can call it whatever you want. But it’s repugnant.
That’s great, let’s agree that all of that is true; nothing will erase the original sin will it?
The starting point to peace is right now. How we got here does not have to dictate where we go from here.
What is it that you’re advocating with the land records line of reasoning, that the Israel government is evicted, that democracy in the middle east ends, and gets replaced with an Islamist caliphate, because the Jews did not inhabit the Levant during the Ottoman empire? Hmm, where were they again?1 But moreso, who were the inhabitants at the beginning of recorded history? I mean if you want to go back to the records and do a title search, go back to the first record. Why would you stop less than halfway?
Nothing will erase the original sin, but Israel can abide by international law and allow the Palestinians to return to their homes and give them equal rights. We are not talking about ancient history. The Naqba was just 75 years ago.
https://www.axios.com/2024/03/14/us-settler-sanctions-west-bank
If they fully drop all support for Israel then multiple countries are likely to start war against Israel, possibly Iran and 2-3 others. That will cause the entire region to destabilize
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And Jewish people are a monolith and all support Israel? Ironically this is closer to actual antisemitism than someone who hates Israel as a state because of their horrendous actions.
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Again, as a monolith? Like “they” all hold this position? Hopefully you see the issue here. Many jewish people absolutely do not support Israel at all
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This article discusses the issue. We have to assume that this recent bout of war crimes has made less jewish people supportive of Israel as well.
As the article says, they are not a monolith
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Jews are not Israel. Israel is not Jews. Stop being a Zionist freak. No one cares what the makeup of the US is. Jews aren’t supposed to support genocide, so if anything, there being many Jews in the US should mean Netty’s behavior should be even less agreeable.
Jews “aren’t supposed” to support or oppose anything as a monolith. That’s just racial essentialism.
Pretty sure plenty of Jews preach against genocide… Or are you saying Jews are OK with genocide as a religion?
Either way … very dumb.
I’m not collecting all Jewry and describing what they do or do not believe, for one! I’m saying that being Jewish isn’t only about participating in a religion. And I’m also saying, which underlines my previous points, not all Jews think the same or believe the same thing.
Are you Jewish? Are you Palestinian?
To disagree with the basic point that all people, regardless of classification, don’t believe one single thing is ridiculous. To what are you even trying to retort?
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There’s a difference between believing in Israel as a state and believing that Israel is doing the right thing politically.
I don’t think you are arguing in good faith.
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Anytime there is an argument that begins “everyone believes X” you are wrong right out of the gate. I’d imagine that if you were to poll Jews, MANY of them would support Israel, but there is no way possible each and every one would. Not all Americans support the American government, so why would Israel be any different?
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I disagree actually, at least for the US. American Jews tend to be way more liberal than Israelis. I think the largest group of supporters would actually be Christians because of the fucking nutty evangelicals.
Or among Christian evangelicals, actually.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2013/10/03/more-white-evangelicals-than-american-jews-say-god-gave-israel-to-the-jewish-people/
Not only that, most Christian groups seem to back it, evangelical or not.
That makes logical sense to me.
If I understand correctly, you’re noting that the Jewish people in America lean supportive of Israel and because they comprise a larger population pool than the vehemently strong pro-Palestinians, Biden must then carefully toe the line between the two groups to court the largest % of votes to ensure the far-worse guy doesn’t get in power?
“ironically” it’s actually Christian far right nationalist evangelicals (a bunch of self contradicting terms if you ask me) who support Israel most in USA, not Jews living in USA (who often left or refused to move there for a reason!).