Absolutely do challenge scientists, no matter your qualification. Sometimes (granted, that’s rare) you might be right.
Just do it in a respectful way and make sure you check your arguments.
Also, while scientists are generally more educated overall, they can absolutely be foolish in what falls outside their scope. “I’m a scientist” is not a valid argument.
There is a difference between informed skepticism and motivated skepticism or skepticism from ignorance. Informed skepticism is good. That’s what solid science is based on. Being skeptical because the conclusions don’t align with what you believe or because you don’t actually understand what is going on is bad.
Even motivated skepticism can be just fine with appropriate rigor and the clarity to see when evidence does or does not back up what you’re saying. (Heliocentrism is a good example.)
Skeptics are a big reason why I don’t argue with people on the internet anymore, some people will literally only accept evidence if it supports their world view, anything that doesn’t “Must be fake”, and the only explanation they give is throwing around insults…
I’d probably still have a working Reddit account if I learned that sooner, ah well…
That’s something I wish more people would actually give some thought to. As someone from a group who gets discussed ad nauseum in the media it really is the case that a lot of the skeptical people that become our problem really don’t have a personal data point for us. So many assumptions are made with things we theorize about but do not personally know. For us it can become plain very quickly when someone has never really interacted directly with us and are just operating on assumptions. I think the world is generally a better place when one is willing to be humble about what they choose to be skeptical about. Admitting to yourself and others that something is at present and maybe forever beyond your ken isn’t a weakness. It’s a strength.
This sounds like what a lot of neurodivergent people like myself deal with. eg. ADHD, Autism etc. Lots of people talking on our behalf that aren’t actually neurodivergent themselves.
Autism and ADHD definitely fits that bill. A lot of my friends are on the spectrum. I am a Non-binary trans person so a lot of the people I know IRL who also identify as Non-binary trans are autistic but I ended up with just ADHD. Still it makes me angry to hear my friends talked about as though they are a problem that was caused by somebody’s lack of oversight. They are incredible, funny, loving, worthwhile people to know. They struggle and it’s not always okay but that doesn’t make them a “problem”.
I get a dose of the same nonsense when I tell people that I am non-binary on here. People’s immediate assumption is I am very young. That I will “change my mind”. That all non-binary people are flighty star chidren who want to live in a land of make believe, feel special or be lavished with attention and it’s so frustrating. I am 38. I knew I was trans since I was 21…I think barring an extreme brain injury I’m pretty set in my ways. I am told that I am at times infuriatingly practical. I worked in crews with fairly conservative people for three and a half years straight being rehired for the gig when they had plenty of opportunities to ditch me. None of whom have any idea I’m enby. If they suspect anything with the name change they never said. I think being non-binary is functionally one of the least interesting things about me. It says very little about my personality and interests. When conservative people do talk to me on platforms a lot of them cannot reconcile me with their assumptions of trans people. They might label me “one of the good ones” … which believe me really doesn’t feel great to hear them say… but that’s how they rationalize the disconnect. Their pride demands not that that they review whether their skeptism is misplaced but instead I must be the exception that proves the rule. Ignoring that I know a fair number of other trans people my age and I am more similar to them than not.
It took a long fucking time for doctors to stop talking to me like I’m a damn child, thankfully things have gotten better… But I recall a time when doctors straight up refused to speak to me directly about my health issues or would use small words and talk very slowly.
A lot of the time they’d start out talking normal, see my diagnosis on the chart, and suddenly I was “five” in their eyes and nothing I could say would change that, they’d just assume I “heard that on TV!”
Thank God that Rainman doesn’t seem to be the public perception of Autism anymore.
Now when they see that, they just ask if I have a safe living situation and a good support network.
I actually find myself skeptical of skeptics these days, I feel like we’ve gone from questioning bad science to “An incessant need to be right and fuel that ego, without letting things like conflicting evidence get in the way of a perfectly solid pre-established worldview.”
My favorite example is Gregor Mendel. He wasn’t a scientist. He was a monk with no degrees of any kind. But he did science—legendary science—which means he actually was a scientist.
“This germ theory nonsense violates the academic truth of spontaneous generation and just sounds like crackpottery, now if you excuse me I need to drill into a man’s skull to balance his humors.” - Academia in the 1700’s
To my understanding, he also very conveniently fudged a few of his experiments so that they would align with his other ones and ended up embellishing his final result,
but also if he hadn’t done that he wouldn’t have discovered Mendelian genes? Not sure if that’s a win or a loss for science.
It’s always important to remember that something can be obvious to a layman, but be considered ridiculous by an expert, as the expert’s view is likely rigid and unlikely to deviate from their experience.
This does not mean experts are morons (They’re considered experts for a damn good reason). it simply means an outsider perspective can be valuable from time to time.
As a young scientist who’s yet to gain PhD:
Absolutely do challenge scientists, no matter your qualification. Sometimes (granted, that’s rare) you might be right.
Just do it in a respectful way and make sure you check your arguments.
Also, while scientists are generally more educated overall, they can absolutely be foolish in what falls outside their scope. “I’m a scientist” is not a valid argument.
And yes, always check for a conflict of interest.
There is a difference between informed skepticism and motivated skepticism or skepticism from ignorance. Informed skepticism is good. That’s what solid science is based on. Being skeptical because the conclusions don’t align with what you believe or because you don’t actually understand what is going on is bad.
Even motivated skepticism can be just fine with appropriate rigor and the clarity to see when evidence does or does not back up what you’re saying. (Heliocentrism is a good example.)
Skeptics are a big reason why I don’t argue with people on the internet anymore, some people will literally only accept evidence if it supports their world view, anything that doesn’t “Must be fake”, and the only explanation they give is throwing around insults…
I’d probably still have a working Reddit account if I learned that sooner, ah well…
That’s something I wish more people would actually give some thought to. As someone from a group who gets discussed ad nauseum in the media it really is the case that a lot of the skeptical people that become our problem really don’t have a personal data point for us. So many assumptions are made with things we theorize about but do not personally know. For us it can become plain very quickly when someone has never really interacted directly with us and are just operating on assumptions. I think the world is generally a better place when one is willing to be humble about what they choose to be skeptical about. Admitting to yourself and others that something is at present and maybe forever beyond your ken isn’t a weakness. It’s a strength.
This sounds like what a lot of neurodivergent people like myself deal with. eg. ADHD, Autism etc. Lots of people talking on our behalf that aren’t actually neurodivergent themselves.
Autism and ADHD definitely fits that bill. A lot of my friends are on the spectrum. I am a Non-binary trans person so a lot of the people I know IRL who also identify as Non-binary trans are autistic but I ended up with just ADHD. Still it makes me angry to hear my friends talked about as though they are a problem that was caused by somebody’s lack of oversight. They are incredible, funny, loving, worthwhile people to know. They struggle and it’s not always okay but that doesn’t make them a “problem”.
I get a dose of the same nonsense when I tell people that I am non-binary on here. People’s immediate assumption is I am very young. That I will “change my mind”. That all non-binary people are flighty star chidren who want to live in a land of make believe, feel special or be lavished with attention and it’s so frustrating. I am 38. I knew I was trans since I was 21…I think barring an extreme brain injury I’m pretty set in my ways. I am told that I am at times infuriatingly practical. I worked in crews with fairly conservative people for three and a half years straight being rehired for the gig when they had plenty of opportunities to ditch me. None of whom have any idea I’m enby. If they suspect anything with the name change they never said. I think being non-binary is functionally one of the least interesting things about me. It says very little about my personality and interests. When conservative people do talk to me on platforms a lot of them cannot reconcile me with their assumptions of trans people. They might label me “one of the good ones” … which believe me really doesn’t feel great to hear them say… but that’s how they rationalize the disconnect. Their pride demands not that that they review whether their skeptism is misplaced but instead I must be the exception that proves the rule. Ignoring that I know a fair number of other trans people my age and I am more similar to them than not.
It took a long fucking time for doctors to stop talking to me like I’m a damn child, thankfully things have gotten better… But I recall a time when doctors straight up refused to speak to me directly about my health issues or would use small words and talk very slowly.
A lot of the time they’d start out talking normal, see my diagnosis on the chart, and suddenly I was “five” in their eyes and nothing I could say would change that, they’d just assume I “heard that on TV!”
Thank God that Rainman doesn’t seem to be the public perception of Autism anymore.
Now when they see that, they just ask if I have a safe living situation and a good support network.
Of course - that’s what I meant by “check your arguments”. Thanks for the clarification with this point!
This ^
I actually find myself skeptical of skeptics these days, I feel like we’ve gone from questioning bad science to “An incessant need to be right and fuel that ego, without letting things like conflicting evidence get in the way of a perfectly solid pre-established worldview.”
My favorite example is Gregor Mendel. He wasn’t a scientist. He was a monk with no degrees of any kind. But he did science—legendary science—which means he actually was a scientist.
I’d say he was a scientist - just not part of academia :)
We have to separate science and academia, especially when we talk about the past.
Damn right…
“This germ theory nonsense violates the academic truth of spontaneous generation and just sounds like crackpottery, now if you excuse me I need to drill into a man’s skull to balance his humors.” - Academia in the 1700’s
To my understanding, he also very conveniently fudged a few of his experiments so that they would align with his other ones and ended up embellishing his final result, but also if he hadn’t done that he wouldn’t have discovered Mendelian genes? Not sure if that’s a win or a loss for science.
damn never meet ur heroes
It’s always important to remember that something can be obvious to a layman, but be considered ridiculous by an expert, as the expert’s view is likely rigid and unlikely to deviate from their experience.
This does not mean experts are morons (They’re considered experts for a damn good reason). it simply means an outsider perspective can be valuable from time to time.
Exactly!
I am kind of a scientist myself.