any recommendations for carbines? I’ve long been under the impression that my bug-out weapon should be one that accepts the cheapest, most common, most convenient to transport ammunition possible and that perception tells me it ought to just be a handgun with a long barrel and a stock.
Warning: I’m autistic–yes, really–and guns are one of my life-long special interests. So, wall of text incoming.
PCCs (pistol caliber carbines) are handy, but I don’t know if I’d want to rely on one as a do-all bug out rifle. In my opinion, for most able-bodied people, PCCs have the worst features of both rifles and pistols; they’re bulky enough that they can’t be concealed easily, and the bullets are less powerful and have significantly shorter ranges than rifles. Some PCCs also have reliability issues, but I don’t know which ones specifically. (That said, the Kriss Vector is cool as hell, doubly so if you can get it as an SBR and silenced. Not always super reliable, but still very neat. And expensive. So, maybe not that.) On the other hand, recoil is very minimal. If you really like PCCs, then I’ve heard good things about the KP-9, which also happens to be produced by a very decent person (e.g., non-chud). PCCs are particularly good for people with some level of disability that prevents them from using a typical pistol effectively.
If you’re a normal person with normal person funds, where buying a rifle is a large purchase, I’d get a 14" AR-15 ‘pistol’ with a solid ‘wrist brace’. As long as you’re buying something nicer than Bear Creek Arsenal or Palmetto State Armory, the brand isn’t going to matter a lot. Don’t waste your money on Daniel Defense or KAC. A reliable red dot optic that’s zeroed at 50y completes the minimalist bug-out ‘pistol’. In this case, I would suggest an enclosed red dot, like the Lead & Steel Promethean; enclosed dots are less likely to get gunked up. Get a bunch of magazines, Magpul 30 rounders if your state allows them, and 10 rounders if your state doesn’t. A “combat load”, IIRC, is 210 rounds, or seven 30-round magazines; if you need that many rounds in a bug-out situation, you are well and truly fucked.
If you’ve got money to burn, I’d suggest getting a piston rifle like the Sig MCX-Spear LT in 11.5" or an FN-SCAR in 11.5" (both will be SBRs, so you’ll need a tax stamp), and then a B&T Print-X VERS36 SS silencer (.30 cal, titanium, modular, full-auto rated–which is unusual for titanium silencers–and yes, you need a tax stamp for it). Both rifles are 5.56x45mm, which means ammo is both cheap and readily available at almost any gun store anywhere. Both rifles are also piston-operated, rather than being direct impingement (DI), so the stock can fold to make it more compact. Yes, piston rifles are slightly less accurate than DI, but at the ranges that a bug-out rifle would be used, that’s probably not an issue. I’d probably get a Dead Air KeyMo adapter and mount for the silencer so you could take it off and put it on quickly, since a silencer is going to add 6-8". If you can afford it, holographic sights are slightly nicer than red dots (albeit with shorter battery life; EOTech and the Vortex AMG UH-1 are the only holographic options), and a 4x flip-up magnifier extends your range. (I use an LPVO and an offset red dot on my primary competition rifle, but that’s a bit much for a bug-out rifle.) You might want a weapon light; Surefire is the standard choice, but I use a relatively inexpensive Steamlight, and it works well enough for night matches out to about 150y or so. At the ranges that you’d ever be likely to need to use a bug-out rifle, that’s likely not a significant issue.
Personally, I don’t worry about a bug-out rifle. That’s low on my priority list. I have enough cats that bugging out means driving with eight pet carriers, not walking, so a full-sized rifle is fine for me. I’m more worried about having a good carry gun. :)
Pity that you can’t teach cats to use crew-served weapons…
The obvious choice is to buy a multi-piece rifle, full size or pcc is up to you, that breaks into 2+ pieces.
That’s pretty much al AR-15s; you can entirely separate the upper and lower receivers. But you’re probably thinking more of take-down rifles. I don’t think that most take-down rifles would be ideal in a SHTF kind of situation. And, to be very, very clear, I think that a very sudden SHTF situation where you need a rifle is very, very unlikely. I think that suddenly needing to evacuate due to weather or fires is more likely, and the kind of civil unrest that might require a rifle, well, we’re already the frog in that pot, and the water keeps getting hotter… Someone is going to throw the first rock at a protest, then it’s going to get very, very ugly, very, very fast.
I used to sell guns at a previous job, and we usually didn’t get high end stuff unless it was a special order.
I tried to get a job at a gun store. I am a little too… Unusual in my appearance. It would not have pleased the majority of the customers there. Oh well. (Not that it matters much; margins are low enough that discounts wouldn’t have been any better than what I can get on gun.deals or ammoseek.)
I have a few neighbors who are definitely going to be ICE targets soon, and they have been invited to start shooting with us in preparation.
Very cool. FWIW, as long as they’re legal residents, they should be able to get firearms legally.
I would sincerely hope that any gun owner that saw someone being grabbed off the street by people in street clothes would act to stop the abduction. But I’m afraid that too many people have the bystander virus.
I miss the good old days when target practice was fun and banter was abound
There’s still some of that at some matches. But yes, it’s getting a lot more grim. The tone is shifting, because everyone is starting to see where we’re heading, and wondering what they really would have done in Germany in 1935.
Where were you working that sold both bikes and firearms? I’ve worked in bike shops off and on (wrenching), and they definitely didn’t sell firearms. OTOH, the last couple were in Chicago, and the city of Chicago at the time had exactly zero gun stores within city limits.
They can strip and maintain all their guns with a blindfold on, but I don’t think they’ve even sighted them in properly.
May I suggest telling them to check out InRangeTV? There’s a fairly decent sized community of people that are truly supportive of the idea that the 2A is for everyone, and they tend to push each other towards training and competition, with a goal of being effective first and foremost. …Because a gun isn’t a magic talisman, and shooting ability is a skill that degrades quickly without practice.
Don’t assume someone else will show up to help. You ARE RIGHT THERE. So help.
That was one of the things that was covered in a trauma class I took. I highly recommend that everyone take one, even if it’s just a very basic ‘stop the bleed’ class. But if they have the time and money available for the training, TCCC CLS classes, or wilderness first responder classes are better. People are far, far more likely to need to save someone’s life before an ambulance can arrive than they are to need to use a firearm to defend themselves or someone else.
you had me at ‘special interest’ - i’m writing that BEFORE i dive into your wall of text because i want you to be assured that your expertise is appreciated <3
any recommendations for carbines? I’ve long been under the impression that my bug-out weapon should be one that accepts the cheapest, most common, most convenient to transport ammunition possible and that perception tells me it ought to just be a handgun with a long barrel and a stock.
Warning: I’m autistic–yes, really–and guns are one of my life-long special interests. So, wall of text incoming.
PCCs (pistol caliber carbines) are handy, but I don’t know if I’d want to rely on one as a do-all bug out rifle. In my opinion, for most able-bodied people, PCCs have the worst features of both rifles and pistols; they’re bulky enough that they can’t be concealed easily, and the bullets are less powerful and have significantly shorter ranges than rifles. Some PCCs also have reliability issues, but I don’t know which ones specifically. (That said, the Kriss Vector is cool as hell, doubly so if you can get it as an SBR and silenced. Not always super reliable, but still very neat. And expensive. So, maybe not that.) On the other hand, recoil is very minimal. If you really like PCCs, then I’ve heard good things about the KP-9, which also happens to be produced by a very decent person (e.g., non-chud). PCCs are particularly good for people with some level of disability that prevents them from using a typical pistol effectively.
If you’re a normal person with normal person funds, where buying a rifle is a large purchase, I’d get a 14" AR-15 ‘pistol’ with a solid ‘wrist brace’. As long as you’re buying something nicer than Bear Creek Arsenal or Palmetto State Armory, the brand isn’t going to matter a lot. Don’t waste your money on Daniel Defense or KAC. A reliable red dot optic that’s zeroed at 50y completes the minimalist bug-out ‘pistol’. In this case, I would suggest an enclosed red dot, like the Lead & Steel Promethean; enclosed dots are less likely to get gunked up. Get a bunch of magazines, Magpul 30 rounders if your state allows them, and 10 rounders if your state doesn’t. A “combat load”, IIRC, is 210 rounds, or seven 30-round magazines; if you need that many rounds in a bug-out situation, you are well and truly fucked.
If you’ve got money to burn, I’d suggest getting a piston rifle like the Sig MCX-Spear LT in 11.5" or an FN-SCAR in 11.5" (both will be SBRs, so you’ll need a tax stamp), and then a B&T Print-X VERS36 SS silencer (.30 cal, titanium, modular, full-auto rated–which is unusual for titanium silencers–and yes, you need a tax stamp for it). Both rifles are 5.56x45mm, which means ammo is both cheap and readily available at almost any gun store anywhere. Both rifles are also piston-operated, rather than being direct impingement (DI), so the stock can fold to make it more compact. Yes, piston rifles are slightly less accurate than DI, but at the ranges that a bug-out rifle would be used, that’s probably not an issue. I’d probably get a Dead Air KeyMo adapter and mount for the silencer so you could take it off and put it on quickly, since a silencer is going to add 6-8". If you can afford it, holographic sights are slightly nicer than red dots (albeit with shorter battery life; EOTech and the Vortex AMG UH-1 are the only holographic options), and a 4x flip-up magnifier extends your range. (I use an LPVO and an offset red dot on my primary competition rifle, but that’s a bit much for a bug-out rifle.) You might want a weapon light; Surefire is the standard choice, but I use a relatively inexpensive Steamlight, and it works well enough for night matches out to about 150y or so. At the ranges that you’d ever be likely to need to use a bug-out rifle, that’s likely not a significant issue.
Personally, I don’t worry about a bug-out rifle. That’s low on my priority list. I have enough cats that bugging out means driving with eight pet carriers, not walking, so a full-sized rifle is fine for me. I’m more worried about having a good carry gun. :)
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Pity that you can’t teach cats to use crew-served weapons…
That’s pretty much al AR-15s; you can entirely separate the upper and lower receivers. But you’re probably thinking more of take-down rifles. I don’t think that most take-down rifles would be ideal in a SHTF kind of situation. And, to be very, very clear, I think that a very sudden SHTF situation where you need a rifle is very, very unlikely. I think that suddenly needing to evacuate due to weather or fires is more likely, and the kind of civil unrest that might require a rifle, well, we’re already the frog in that pot, and the water keeps getting hotter… Someone is going to throw the first rock at a protest, then it’s going to get very, very ugly, very, very fast.
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I tried to get a job at a gun store. I am a little too… Unusual in my appearance. It would not have pleased the majority of the customers there. Oh well. (Not that it matters much; margins are low enough that discounts wouldn’t have been any better than what I can get on gun.deals or ammoseek.)
Very cool. FWIW, as long as they’re legal residents, they should be able to get firearms legally.
I would sincerely hope that any gun owner that saw someone being grabbed off the street by people in street clothes would act to stop the abduction. But I’m afraid that too many people have the bystander virus.
There’s still some of that at some matches. But yes, it’s getting a lot more grim. The tone is shifting, because everyone is starting to see where we’re heading, and wondering what they really would have done in Germany in 1935.
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Where were you working that sold both bikes and firearms? I’ve worked in bike shops off and on (wrenching), and they definitely didn’t sell firearms. OTOH, the last couple were in Chicago, and the city of Chicago at the time had exactly zero gun stores within city limits.
May I suggest telling them to check out InRangeTV? There’s a fairly decent sized community of people that are truly supportive of the idea that the 2A is for everyone, and they tend to push each other towards training and competition, with a goal of being effective first and foremost. …Because a gun isn’t a magic talisman, and shooting ability is a skill that degrades quickly without practice.
That was one of the things that was covered in a trauma class I took. I highly recommend that everyone take one, even if it’s just a very basic ‘stop the bleed’ class. But if they have the time and money available for the training, TCCC CLS classes, or wilderness first responder classes are better. People are far, far more likely to need to save someone’s life before an ambulance can arrive than they are to need to use a firearm to defend themselves or someone else.
deleted by creator
you had me at ‘special interest’ - i’m writing that BEFORE i dive into your wall of text because i want you to be assured that your expertise is appreciated <3