In audio released Friday evening, senators and representatives from Ohio and Michigan revealed the “endgame” is to ban transgender care “for everyone.”
That’s only because they don’t think they can reintroduce chattel slavery. Their actual endgame, if they accomplish this, will be much, much worse.
It’s constantly a slippery f’n slope with these people, and they always want to keep on sliding down that slope.
The slippery slope implies that it’s some kind of accident.
They’re dragging us kicking and screaming into a ditch.
Slippery slope implies that allowing the change will mean sliding further and further in the same direction. Intent does not matter.
This is a slippery slope because every time they say something has a limited scope they just keep increasing the scope.
The slippery-ness of the slope is inherently about intent. If the slope is slippery then it isn’t their fault for falling down the slope.
This slope isn’t slippery. It’s a stair case into fascism and they are goose stepping down the steps and dragging us by the hair.
The slippery slope can easily be unintentional, like the fear that giving something up will just naturally lead to other things being given up as a logical extension of the first thing. That is why slippery slopes are often described when making exemptions for certain rights. It is not that someone is intentionally going to expand the exemptions, but that exemptions tend to lead to more and more exemptions as a slippery slope.
This one is intentional. Some slippery slopes are intentional and some are accidental. Intent does not matter.
What do you think “slippery” means? If you slip, it’s unintentional. This is not a slippery slope. This is an intentional methodological plan.
Someone can intentionally trick someone onto a slippery slope and grease it up to make the slide faster, like Republicans are doing right now with undermining abortion and LBGTQ+ rights while claiming it isn’t a slippery slope.
Where do you get the idea that a slippery slope must be unintentional?
Is someone slipping on a banana peel unintentional if someone drops the peel in front of them? Do you think you might be taking the word ‘slippery’ a little too literally?
i disagree - the word sliding can imply a passivity in things that current republican intent certainly counter-indicates.
i’m not generally pulled down slippery slopes against my will, original wording of the phrase aside.
But they aren’t saying that their efforts have a limited scope. They just admitted their intent.
Yes, in this case it is intentional. That doesn’t mean every slippery slope is intentional, because they can be accidental or intentional. A slippery slope does not imply being accidental, which is what I was responding to.
I’d say it’s more the dog that caught the car. They need trans people to exist so they can whip their base up into a panic over trans people existing. Total victory, then, means they need to move on to a new target to hate. It’s hate in and of itself that matters to them, hate is more than a necessary evil, it’s the ultimate object of their desire.
Exactly. If they had nobody else to hate, they would eventually turn on themselves. They would get to a point where nobody would trust anyone,
Another common Republican accusation that ends up being an admission.
It’s not really a slippery slope issue if they’re throwing themselves down to the bottom on purpose though…
They’re just putting on their ski’s.
Everyone knows what their end game really is.
Yeah, it was caught on audio pretty clearly lol. These
peoplethings are fucking horrendous.
We already have slavery and it’s working quite nicely. We just renamed them “illegal immigrants”.
I think people get hung up thinking slaves were cost-free to the slaveholders. Of course they weren’t! Just like any livestock, you gotta feed and shelter them, breed them, take care of the offspring until they become productive, etc.
The current slave system is brilliant! Pay 'em some change, so no one can call them slaves, and let them figure out all the items above. If anyone comes along and says maybe we should provide… STFU socialist! You trying to take MY money and give it to people breaking the law?!
It gets better! Now we can use fear of these people to get votes, keep in power. (Fuck it, I’m exhausted, you all know where I’m going with this.)
This is a stunningly ignorant take.
Being a modern so-called “wage slave” sucks, no doubt. But equating it to actual, literal slavery belittles what those people actually went through to a disgusting degree. No one today can whip you if they feel like it. No one today can separate you from your spouse and children, selling them to some random asshole two states over, never to be seen again. If you decided to try to make it on your own and move, no one can sue to have you brought back to your workplace in a cage. If you break your leg, no one can shoot you in the head like you’re a useless animal.
The closest thing to slaves we have today are convicts. There’s a whole different discussion to be had there about how immoral it is to use prison as a punishment instead of rehabilitation, allowing a court to take away someone’s rights, exploiting time behind bars for labor, the incentive that provides for pronouncing people guilty, and removing felons’ rights to vote. But poor wage workers are NOT slaves.
No. This is a bad take. Even though wage slavery bucks, no illegal immigrant is their employer’s property. You already have slavery in the US and it’s all the convicts being leased to companies: 13th Amendment, babies!
Not sure if you’re ignorant to reality or what. Your comparison falls flat and looks childish because the US still has actual slaves. Not metaphorically, not hyperbolically, but actual, literal slaves.
The 13th amendment banned slavery EXCEPT as punishment for a crime. And hoo-boy has the US taken that to heart. One of the reasons we have more of our population imprisoned than any other country is we use prisoners as slave labor. Actual, literal, slave labor.
Did you really just compare immigrant labor to chattel slavery?
A year or so back I heard a trans activist on a podcast saying that the “protect kids” rhetoric was bullshit and all the bans on providing gender affirming care to trans kids was a foot in the door to ban it for all trans people.
Now we just need the leaked audio of republicans talking about banning birth control for the awfulness hat trick.
Politicians saying “Protecting the kids” is usually a trigger phrase for some bullshit
Like 99.9999% of the time.
Unless it’s talking about responsible firearm ownership.
Well no that one is the actual leading cause of death in children.
Exactly
Still not sure if I’m misreading sarcasm or if we’re in agreement that “reeee, think of cheeeeldreeen!” is usually a transparent pretext to violate someone’s rights, but with gun regulation its truly not pretextual.
That was my genuine point. No sarcasm intended.
I’d honestly like to know what they’re protecting kids from.
What the kids really need to be protected from is these hateful motherfuckers. We need to put the lot of them in a rocket and fire it into the next sun over. Not our sun, that’s still too close to home.
To the Sun I say. Better to burn them up immediately than risk them being brought back to life by some future technology after being retrieved half way past Pluto.
Ugh, imagine alien life encountering them and thinking they’re representative of our species. Agreed, they can burn here.
Stopping ADULTS from receiving Life Saving Healthcare is EXACTLY how we Save The Children!
You’re joking, but they literally believe that.
They believe all trans folk are pedophile groomers that are brainwashing children into becoming trans by sneaking into bathrooms and school sports teams, so they want to kill us to Save The Children.
Meanwhile… actual pedos are running rampant and just walking into the front door of locker rooms…
Jim Jordan, I’m looking at you.
Jordan was not the one accused of abusing kids. He’s accused of not doing anything to stop someone else from doing it.
There’s no real difference honestly
There by letting them… walk in the door…?
Or the Whore House.
E: White House.
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Which is why the GOP is aggressively pursuing all those pedophile priests!
Lol. J/k they don’t care about that
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Sources please. If you’re going to make a claim like this, back it up.
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The person who makes a claim is responsible for providing sources to back up their claim. It is not my responsibility to take your claims at face value. If you speak of facts and statistics, show them. Don’t spew hateful shit for the sake of spewing hateful shit.
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OK, so the fact that you’re refusing to back up your claims tells me everything I need to know. You take talking points from far right rhetoric and pull them out of your ass. It stinks, you can’t show it because there is nothing to show. It’s all ass air, man. Ass air ain’t shit.
“Children? Fuck Children! Once you’re out, bootstraps, motherfuckers!”
Children? Fuck Children!
Yeah, part of the problem is that a significant portion of conservative leaders take that sentence way too literal, in every single way.
Exactly.
Even the usage of the term “endgame” implies an almost sportsman like perspective on the legal battle for transgender rights, devoid of any acknowledgment that transgender people have humanity and that their actions will have dire consequences for real people. A literal battle plan for how to dispose of us. No vague language, no hand waving away accusations of genocidal intent. Point blank, openly asking, “How do we get rid of trans people for good?”
They refuse to acknowledge that trans people, that any trans person, benefits from acceptance and support and freedom to be themselves. In their ideal world, first they’ll deny our healthcare, deny our legal rights and protections from violence and discrimination, they’ll replace mental health care facilities with religious conversion therapy camps, and when all is said and done and trans people continue to exist in any shape or form they’ll resort to incarceration and disposal. They’ll make laws enforcing dress codes based on assigned gender and make it illegal to change your name to one not approved for your assigned sex. This is what they’ve been saying they want for years. If they could do this, they would without a second thought.
We’re the basis of the entirety of the post pandemic Christian conservatism movement. None of these people would even have jobs without us to scream about during the two minutes hate.
The Nazis started with Transexuals and Homosexuals. The Jewish people just outnumbered the Transexuals and Homosexuals by several factors.
Oh, and the homeless were the third group, again outnumbered by a couple factors by Jewish people.
Important why the reference is valid as well, is that endgame is rhetorically near ‘Endlösung’ (ultimate solution) and ‘Endsieg’ (ultimate victory), meaning complete genocide as ‘solution’ to ‘the problem of the jews (existence)’ ( ‘Judenfrage’ ) and world domination as solution to the growing extremes of the Second World War.
Please don’t use ‘Endlösung’, ‘Endsieg’ and ‘Judenfrage’ in casual speech.
Americans don’t like talking about how Nazis came to power. We literally remove the first line from Martin Niemöller’s “First they came for” quote from school textbooks because it sympathizes with Socialism.
Neither they like to talk how a lot of Nazi discourse was based on American eugenics and the logistics of the holocaust were templated and inspired by the American genocide of Native American Indigenous people. In particular the use of concentration camps. Which the Americans copied and perfected during WW2 to imprison Japanese-American citizens.
Even the usage of the term “endgame” implies an almost sportsman like perspective on the legal battle for transgender rights
It could be a movie reference tho. You know that movie where someone with all the power snapped his fingers and a bunch of people just disappeared?
At any rate it’s never good to hear about fascists discussing plans that have an endgame.
Huh wonder how the movie got the name.
From a comic book?
Imagine being so insistent on targeting what amounts to 1% of the population.
This shows how little they care about governing and how much they care about pushing their agenda.
Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.
-Francis Wilhoit
They are exercising the out group to appease their base, nothing more. When they can’t target trans people anymore, they will move on to someone else.
This is a red herring lie to induce fear in homophobic followers. It is little different from the lies to that crime is rising, and that black/Latino/immigrant/Antifa crime is skyrocketing. Do not take my word for it. Look at actual crime statistics. Republicans are both being lied to, and spreading those same lies.
The common thread is Republicans are dividing our country by promoting fear, distrust, and rage through their lies.
That’s basically the game, ruin everything, and blame whichever minority it’s cool to hate this month for the ruin
WDYM “1% of the population”? He explicitly said “for everyone”!
And what percentage of the population is trans?
He doesn’t actually mean everyone. He’d have no problem with his mistress getting breast implants.
That’s not “trans care”. I bet he’d have issues if his mistress wanted to transition to male.
i wouldn’t be so sure about that…
1/100 is trans? No way. It’s got to be more like 1/1000 or even less. If you say I is 1% is lgbtq I would agree. But trans specifically? Nah.
sounds high to me too, but i don’t rwallly know.
~7% identifies as LGBT in USA, 0,5-1,6% identify as trans according to wikipedia.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demographics_of_the_United_States#p-lang
That’s a rounding up by a pretty big margin. I am in one of the most trans friendly cities on the planet and we’re sitting at 0.4% of our population being trans.
A lot of the rhetoric tends to fall on the “we shouldn’t have to change our behaviour because it’s such a small number!” but then we are also supposed to be this society wide menace that is “socially contagious”…
We are prime scapegoats because you require extra empathy to understand the basics of what being trans is actually like compared to being cis and conservatives generally rate pretty low on empathy. They don’t care that they are condemning us to permanent misery, they can’t conceptualize that misery anyway.
I think one can be bigoted AF against gay and trans people and still defend their rights, I mean I think a lot of people are shit, doesn’t mean I want them imprisoned for it, I just don’t hang out with them. End of problem. Because you don’t go knocking at their doors asking them to be gay, right? These fuckers go door to door asking me to vote to end gay, and that is more annoying than I ever found a gay person. Fuck that, you be you and I be me, you stay there I stay here everyone happy, bigots and gays together, not divided.
This feels like it’s intended to be a positive message… I think? I have certainly never knocked on anybody’s door and asked them to be trans. I think a lot of people assume that we are trying to force people to use our pronouns and be nice to us… But if it’s on my own time why would I hang around people that call me things that make me feel like crap?
It’s crazy though how upset people will get when you tell them you don’t like them very much. Bigots want to be “respected” but most of the time it just seems to mean “above judgement for behaviour.”
I hold some views that are very often branded “-phobic”, while you could not possibly find a more humanistically and egalitarian determined person who would literally (and I say this with a straight face) die for everybody’s right to enjoy the same freedoms and liberties as everybody else regardless of their personal choices, or their non-personal choices, or whoever they are or how they identify themselves.
Simultaneously I think the LGBTQ movement is fucking bullshit dogmatic artificial manufactured outrage culture whose participants refuse to ever have anything but the most disingenuous, vile, and divisive arguments, on a basically fascist level. And don’t even get me started on trans whatever. I don’t mind any of these people as people. But their arguments suck ass, that is the single thing that pisses me off, they suffocate dialogue, and I will never have any of that. It is hypocritical to demand of me that I see others the way they see themselves. You may choose to see yourself however you want, and I retain my right to see you however I want as well. I don’t have to agree with you. You may see yourself as trans, and I will never disrespect you for it, but if I see it as hypothetically should be classified as a mental disorder then that is my right. Strictly based on scientific classification (i have a degree in psychology), the argument can be easily made. Why isn’t it? That is my contention.
But I would die for their rights, without a second thought, to say what they want and be what they want and I would take up arms to defend anyone being oppressed for their sexuality, or religion, or color of skin. I went into the army based on those ideals, just so that in case it comes my way, I will be prepared to do the right thing and protect civilian rights.
Part of the reason why the mental disorder thing doesn’t stick is that a gender identity is pretty key to our self conceptualization of who we are as people. It’s really hard to explain it to cis people in a way that makes sense to them because so many don’t have a situation that is comparable. In my talks with cis people while some do have a binary gender identity that matches their physicality and they feel the same dysphoria / euphoria we do… they aren’t the norm I’ve observed. Most cis people seem to be without a strong gender identity. If they suddenly woke up as the opposite sex they might be perfectly chill with it.
But imagine you have a situation where you’ve always seen the world through the lens of a self where your brain recognizes members of the other sex as being your people. You struggle to empathize with members of your birth sex and you react with horror as your body changing not only triggers a sense of body horror it makes it so other people start treating you in a way where it’s like they stop recognizing you. Internally however this is a constant, your personality, veiws and every choice you’ve made, every social interaction you’ve ever had has been colored with this subtext.
I suffer from a fair amount of gender dysphoria, but I haven’t transitioned due to other factors. But if the option to suddenly just be happy in this body and conceptualize myself fully as the gender that matches this body… I wouldn’t take that option, the idea of even doing so is sickening. At some level this IS me. If you changed it you’d violate something deeper than just flesh.
A lot of people look at us first and foremost as a problem. A disorder not in that we are sick but that we do not submit to the order that is easy for other people who don’t want to take the energy to empathize or understand. That we fight to engineer our spaces to make living our lives more fulfilling to US is too much for some people who just try and discredit and flatten our expression to a narrow version of what is acceptable because we are expected to endure a permanent level of “tolerable” unhappiness… Largely for the sake of THEIR convenience.
Yes, we fight to change things but so much of this "I would fight for your freedoms… But " rhetoric is ignorant of the rubric we have for what constitutes a life worth living and a life worth actually fighting for. It’s hard to fight that tide because we are in the position of having to explain color to the blind when we talk about things like gender identity.
Ultimately I don’t care what random people “think” about me. But reflecting my own body back to me in language that refers directly to it means that you are doing something that makes me feel like shit. I accept a certain amount of random interaction as just the cost of doing business of going out in public but there’s certain places where I should not need endure that. Like the people who want to be my friend and feel some measure of closeness. Or in places made safe by our engineering where the general rule of the space is that no one should have to deal with the status quo outside where we can’t let our walls down. Our homes, queer spaces, or places where we’ve adequately advocated for our needs and the people in charge of that space have sided with our interpretation of a better status quo - physical and digital tangible territory claimed by us. The majority of spaces in the world value cis people’s comfort over ours but they whine over the implications that there is any other way of doing businesses because they are fighting for the social engineering that makes them feel most comfortable- just like we are doing. Some people and places it’s fine to have actual standards for behaviour because it allows you to actually relax in a public space without steeling yourself for the next random hit of having to perform for someone who really wants nothing more than you to not be their “problem” .
Representative Shriver asked, “In terms of endgame, why are we allowing these practices for anyone?”
Because trans people doing this for themselves to themselves doesn’t hurt or harm you in any way whatsoever.
“If we are going to stop this for anyone under 18, why not apply it for anyone over 18?”
First, I don’t think it should be banned for under 18. However for those over 18 are adults that are able to make their own choices.
It’s harmful across the board, and that’s something we need to take into consideration in terms of the endgame."
How is it harmful? Even empty conservative arguments about homosexuality being bad in the bible don’t apply to trans people. Conservatives only apparent reason for harming trans people is you don’t like it. If that’s the bar, then whats to stop others from banning conservatism itself because there are lots of people that don’t like it?
How is it harmful? Even empty conservative arguments about homosexuality being bad in the bible don’t apply to trans people.
That’s the fun part, as far as they’re concerned, they do. To them, someone who’s trans is still the same as their assigned birth gender. So mtf trans is still male to them. Therefore, it is gay for a man to have sex with a trans women and can get you damned to hell. It’s why “trap” went from referring to femboys with sexuality conversion fetishes to referring to trans people. Many of them literally believe it’s an attempt to “trap” straight men into being gay. Go even further right, and you start running into people who believe trans people are literally agents of Satan sent to claim the souls of good, straight Christian men.
Soooo… Yeah. That’s why evangelical christians tend to lose their shit about trans people.
It doesn’t make sense. People like these build their careers around the fear of the other: foreigners, immigrants, crossdressers, homosexuals, transgender, socialists, communists, etc. Any group that’s small enough that a significant portion of the population doesn’t know any members. They spread lies about how these evil minority groups are out to get special rights and your stuff, then campaign on protecting you from them. They’re absolutely the worst kind of people.
Wilhoit’s law:
Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.
Yeah I fully expect this to become normal for red states.
Probably gonna kill myself lol
Michigan isn’t red. And don’t fucking kill yourself. I’m an old cis white dude, and if I can help fight for your rights, the least you can do is stick around to enjoy them, right?
I’m terrible at pep talks but just don’t fucking kill yourself. There is beauty in the world you have yet to experience, and you make the world a more wondrous and beautiful place just by existing.
I’m in Iowa and that’s a red state these days. If they want to kill me I won’t go quietly, but I’d definitely rather die than detransition.
There are other options. They might involve not staying in Iowa, but hell suicide means leaving Iowa, too, so you might as well try another state.
The Arab Spring all started with a suicide.
Just something to think about.
Of all the Iowans to kill why one of the victims?
🤔 😲
Come hang out in Illinois. We’ll leave you alone.
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Probably gonna kill myself lol
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: never kill yourself for something that’s somebody else’s fault.
That’s what they want. Live your life to the fullest just to spite these motherfuckers.
If I could hug you over the internet I would. Unfortunately that’s of exactly no help.
We would welcome you here in Washington.
If I manage to pay off my trailer before they issue my death sentence I’ll try to move, but if I run out of time I’m not going to try and thread that needle. I’ll just make sure it counts.
Our people have endured worse. They destroy our homes and livelihoods and push us to crime and professions of desperation. And yet we persist. From the Molly houses to the prostitute priestesses we have endured throughout history. And no law will stand between us and ourselves.
don’t let them fucking win, you stay here and you fight godsdamnit
I think it might just be time to move bud. You’re in an escapesble situation. You don’t HAVE to stay and listen to their bullshit. You’re much much better than they are. Keep positive thoughts and you WILL get through it!
I’m still paying off my trailer, I can’t just move without destroying my life anyway. My resume is unimpressive, I’m going into my mid 30s, I’d just be condemning myself to a life in homeless poverty.
I hope things don’t get bad enough for you to feel like that’s the only option.
same, no lol tho.
If we are going to stop this for anyone under 18, why not apply it for anyone over 18? It’s harmful across the board, and that’s something we need to take into consideration in terms of the endgame."
Wow.
Representative Click then responded, "That’s a very smart thought there. I think what we know legislatively is we have to take small bites.”
This is why they call everything a slippery slope. Projection.
it must be nice having a party that just always manages to force through all the shit you want no matter the odds
it’s so awesome that we still haven’t fixed roe. like, ridiculous that that night the president didn’t write something saying ‘actually it’s legal everywhere executive order fuck you’. i don’t care if that’s not how it works!! he’s the president!! that’s how 40% of people think it works anyway!!
He did to some extent. The states ignored him because that’s how it actually works.
Obviously. This was apparent from the start.
Imagine dedicating your life to being an asshole. If, IF, you’re a gigantic, seeping, festering asshole, you can get an anchor spot on Fox.
It is pretty clear even without this audio.
Meh, how is this still newsworthy. I’ll be shocked if it went the other way.
What a shock.
Yep just keep on stripping life away from those of us with firearms until we have nothing to lose. You think people who had surgery and totally altered their physical appearance can just “go back” to their birth gender? Nah fam. What you’re doing is backing these people into an inescapable corner who are armed and have nothing left. Let me know how that works out for ya.
Funny how LGBT, women and POCs are the largest gun buying demographic, yet liberals continue to rail against guns. (And lose votes…)
I’m none of the above, but neither am I some old white guy that thinks he’s tough because he owns guns. Kinda the opposite actually, but that’s another conversation. I practice and learn, I use guns. Every weekend. It’s mostly for fun, until it’s not.
I am a peaceful man, but I am not harmless. You got allies you don’t know about. You got people that will show out. And I’ve said 100 times, I’m not getting on a train and neither are you my friend.
In other news, the color blue is blue. The party of hate surprised no one.
