This is already happening. Every store in my vicinity has people who look like they should be spending time with their grandchildren doing menial service jobs.
they might be doing it because they are bored. a low key part time job is a choice some folks make just to get out of the house. don’t asssume it’s because they are broke.
a lot of people straight up die after they retire because they have no purpose in life anymore, leading to depression and deaths of despair. my dad died like 1.5 years after he retired because all he did was sit around, drink, and gamble.
my grandparents both volunteered and did odd jobs to keep active in retirement and lived until their early 80s thanks to that, they had plenty of money.
they might be doing it because they are bored
Both/And. Retirement is boring. Retirement when you’re broke is absolutely enervating. Menial employment kinda-sorta solves both problems. Although, its as much a pox on the employer as the employee. Elderly workers don’t tend to be the most motivated or the most energetic. And when you’re paying a pittance, they don’t want to bend over backwards for you, either.
my grandparents both volunteered and did odd jobs to keep active in retirement and lived until their early 80s thanks to that, they had plenty of money.
I mean, “plenty of money” is sort of a YMMV situation. I’ve got two in-laws both with less than a million in savings. One lives frugally to the point of a asceticism while the other just seems content to YOLO until he’s down to whatever SS has to offer. Idk how much money they’re going to need in another ten years. Nevermind another twenty. But they’re both in an inflationary vice that keeps squeezing tighter with every year.
My own surviving parent spends her more generous retirement savings endlessly fixing up the four bedroom house she refuses to sell, in between routine visits to the doctor to find a cure for being old. She might actually benefit from getting out of the house to do some bullshit retail work, except she’s more of a management-type personality than a worker bee. I’m not worried about her finances nearly as much her mental health. But I could see a future in which she’s suckered out of a big part of her fortune, simply because someone on the TV sold her on it in a moment of weakness.
🙄
Ahahahah, retirement?!?
That ship has sailed, hit an iceberg, annoyed a gang of killer whales, suffered a meteor impact and sunk into a nuclear testing site. It caught fire shortly after.
I’m saving for it, but deep down I know they’ll find me dead in my office at 90, and give me a disciplinary for the unmarked papers.
So they can dock your last check
Bold of you to assume any of us will be able to “retire”
That may be bold but the idea that there will be a thirty year wait for that to happen is simply childish.
Downvoted for self censorship
I see a couple of possibilities:
They’re not going to retire. As they age, if they don’t land on a lifelong career and progress the ladder at least a little bit, they’ll get to work in physically demanding jobs which will destroy their body and they’ll die before traditional retirement ages, or just at where older gens would retire. If they do land into some kind of lifelong career, they’ll just work till they die. Think: 85 year old programmers looking up how for loops work again…Another fun possibility is that they will retire after having started saving at a later date but having no children.
Another one is having small savings and moving to poor countries, Africa may see an influx of such persons once South East Asian countries stop letting them in.
Still time for revolutions and complete changes of systems following armed revolts or wars though…
many possibilities ahead.Yeah that first one is what it was like before social safety nets and pensions were a thing for those who didn’t have kids that could support them. It was enough of a problem to cause things to be changed
once South East Asian countries stop letting them in
Why would SEA countries stop letting tourists in?
If they don’t want people living long term on tourist visas, just copy Japan’s model and say no if someone is obviously doing visa runs.
They were talking about immigrants, not tourists.
There used to be stories about grandma eating cat food to get by. So probably something like that.
I think she just had a taste for it.
It’s gonna be like skid row in LA but in every town in America. Idk might be kinda fun, I’ll definitely try to make the best of my golden years.
Climate change, advanced medical technology + health insurance incentives, political unviability/unsustainability of the federal government (in the US), and automation/AI will make retirement fundamentally different by then.
People in the rural areas or red states will basically be living in third world countries and will almost certainly be left behind as they demographically decay and become even more rabidly rightwing. They will continue to have outside influence on the federal government due to the mechanics of our electoral system, hollowing it out to the point of absurdity (even beyond what they’ve already done). However, because of the general incompetence stemming from this, the federal government itself will increasingly lose leverage over the economic powerhouse blue states. Workers who are still in rural areas or red states will basically become serfs and never afford to be able to escape to more functional areas of the country once this transition is complete. When climate related famines start happening, they will die off at the highest rates, but because of automation it will be unlikely to meaningfully disrupt the economy.
People will be forced to mass migrate away from the most dangerous climate areas and because the federal government is basically locked systematically into being eternally dysfunctional now, state level balkanization is inevitable. Likely resulting in Seattle, New York City, & most significantly Chicago becoming major city-states within a barely functioning federal system that they can largely just ignore outside the military and currency, using their massive economic leverage to negotiate their own sovereignty as well as influence surrounding more right-wing poor states laws with their own internal trade regulations.
Except California and other south western blue/purple states, whose fate is questionable due to climate change.
Automation and AI will fundamentally alter the job economy. White collar work will continue to exist but will pay barely any better than a basic service job and AI use will be mandatory/expected. Service jobs will exist but only in luxury spaces where people pay for human interaction in their dining and shopping experiences. Factory, farming, transport, will all become heavily automated and virtually cease to exist as jobs sectors. Leaving largely repair/mechanic/plumbing/hvac & construction (though even these job sectors will shrink with automation) as some of the only options left. Technology, Healthcare, and Legal services will continue to exist as high paying career paths for the lucky few but all the entry and mid-level stuff will get shrunk to basically nothing.
One of the few silver linings in terms of retirement itself & getting old: For people living in the more functional parts of the US (mainly in major cities in climate refuge zones) Government incentives to avoid having to pay out retirement when intersecting with currently rapidly advancing geroscience & birthrate decline will likely mandate anti-aging treatments. Most people will legitimately significantly live longer and healthier as aging’s impacts are significantly mitigated and even partially reversed but they will likely be trading this for retirement and will be probably expected to work until death. And a huge chunk of their income will go straight to health insurance companies who are also incentivized to mandate anti-aging treatments to even qualify for health insurance as anti-aging treatments will probably be cheaper and more profitable than treating the pathology of aging (cancer, heart disease, diabetes, etc) which tends to lose them money. Make no mistake, everyone here is evil, they are just are the pragmatic kind of evil who’d rather exploit your labor indefinitely than have to spend a bunch of money paying to keep a patient alive who will never work again. But this will result in people living decades longer at least and in relatively good health… you’ll just never stop working. Ever.
We will basically live in a strange mostly-dystopic lightly-utopic US that is likely very alien to the one we currently live in.
I feel like you’d enjoy FutureTimeline, or maybe already do
yup, and we’re just starting to see the beginning; the oil shock caused by the pointless trump debacle in iran is already hitting farmers trying to fertilize fields, it’s going to have multiple waves of effect in the coming months when those crops are blighted by an increasingly hostile climate, then when the farmers don’t have enough resources to harvest their crops and get them to market.
we’re just at the beginning and shit’s about to get real.
And almost all of it is self inflicted.
If you worry about that, wait until you see the current AI slaughter
I’m in the tech sector looking for a new job
300+ resumes sent so far, got a single intro call
5 Tara ago I had more calls than resumes sent, as recruiters picked up. Now? nothing
If I lose my current job, I’ll basically have the option to become homeless or move to another country
Fun times
the current AI slaughter
That’s not A(rtificial) I(ntelligence). That’s A(ctually) I(ndonesian).
Chevron just laid off its IT department and sent all the jobs to call centers in East Asia, and it is going exactly as bad as you might expect. My own company tried to eliminate its DBA office and send the work to a subcontractor of a subcontractor. It’s now the worst performing department in the office.
This isn’t a new policy. I’ve worked at half a dozen firms who have all tried to outsource their work to save a buck. And it saves maybe half a buck, then starts costing them their clients in droves.
5 Tara ago I had more calls than resumes sent, as recruiters picked up. Now? nothing
I don’t know how long a Tara is, but that sounds pretty nice for you. I remember the '08 and '14 and '21 IT markets being particularly rough. But then the rebound had people getting vacuumed up out of middling back office positions with five figure signing bonuses and 50% salary adjustments.
The prediction of The End Of All The Jobs gets made on the eve of every downturn. Then we get a slew of “Nobody Wants To Work Anymore” apoplexy from the business community when they realize they cut into their own bones and can’t function properly anymore.
If I lose my current job, I’ll basically have the option to become homeless or move to another country
Unemployment claims typically last 26-52 weeks by state. If you’re that worried about making rent, might want to downgrade your unit now rather than waiting for the pink slip. But also, consider that the COVID layoff/rebound wave was measured in months and - thanks to the wave of Boomer retirements - resulted in a labor market tighter than when it began. Generally good for anyone looking for a raise or a bigger bonus.
Well this has been happening for decades already so its not that hard to figure out how that will look like
Just look at the US
Tent camps on parking places, that sort of stuff
Heroin overdose is my retirement plan at 70-80 depending on my health.
3/4 millennials have retirement savings, a minority don’t, but that is true of every generation.
I’m pretty sure I’ll be selling candies at a bus station just to stay alive.
Retirement is not an age, it’s a financial status.
You make it sound like it’s supposed to be that way?
I didn’t read it that way. It’s just a fact. If you had enough money saved/invested, you could reasonably retire today. If you don’t have anything saved, you can’t afford to retire at any age.
As the OP shows, even the pension system in the UK (or social security in the US) amounts to little more than a sick joke in comparison to the actual cost of living.
I know I’m not saying anything new, I’m just rephrasing the GP’s point in a particularly verbose way.
If you don’t have anything saved, you can’t afford to retire at any age.
But it’s not supposed to be that way.
even the pension system in the UK (or social security in the US) amounts to little more than a sick joke
BUT IT’S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE THAT WAY!
People usually don’t retire because they can but because they have to. Because they can’t work anymore. Framing it like retirement based on savings only is just an unchangeable fact of nature is just wrong.
But it’s not supposed to be that way.
You’re too focused on this, IMO. I can’t fix the injustice here all by my lonesome. What I can do is live beneath my means, save up the extra (and I’m fortunate to have extra after paying for the bare minimum), and have something beyond social security for my own retirement. That’s all any individual can do.
In a group? In the US, you can vote according to who you think will run Social Security better. But in practical terms, that’s a choice between bad and worse. I don’t like it any more than you do, but I don’t see a realistic alternative in the near future.
In the UK (or other countries)? Someone else will have to weigh in there.
This still refers to this shitty comment:
Retirement is not an age, it’s a financial status.
I’m not saying you should overthrow the system tomorrow, but those seemingly witty comments that just normalise how messed up the system is just don’t help.
Retirement is not a financial status. Stupid teenagers that listen to right wing podcasts may think such a remark seems smart, but it is stupid and wrong. Retirement is a necessity that stems directly from the fact that people just can’t work as well at 90 as they can at 35. It’s not a hard concept to grasp and the fact that society makes it hard to stop working after people worked a lifetime but can’t go on anymore isn’t some wisdom to understand, it’s just a neocon’s wet dream and should be described and treated as such.
It would be nice if everyone could be afforded some kind of retirement when they got older. You are correct, in general a 90 year old will be nowhere near productive as a 35 year old. But it would also be nice if people working full time didn’t need food stamps, and if the tax rates were higher, and a whole bunch of other stuff. But that’s not the world we’re living in.
I have to agree with OP here, right now it IS a financial status. It’s a luxury only afforded to those who have the wealth. The whole idea of “retirement” is fairly new. Even 100 years ago a 90 year old might move in with their kids, provide childcare for the grandkids, help out around the house, etc.
Just to reiterate I am on your side, retirement SHOULD be something afforded to everyone. That’s just not the world we’re living in.
Nah, that’s all you.
how?
when most people live paycheck to paycheck, and their biggest luxury is a bobba tea once a month, how the fuck can you do anything about retirement?
the system is set up to maximize human suffering for profit.
It simply stated the reality that retirement comes from having resource access without requiring employment. That’s what it is. Hearing judgement about what should be is you adding it.
it’s a mindset
30 years? It’s happening right now!
no retirement savings, but at least they own the place they live
god help the next generation
My boomer mom inherited a house that was paid off and almost immediately did a reverse mortgage on it. 😔
To make necessary repairs to the house… right?..
Um… no.
While we need* property taxes, but it absolute hammers old people in some places.
Cheaper than renting still, but on a fixed income it hurts, and especially lately there have been very high tax increases due to inflation. But then the social security increases are comparatively small.
I know quite a few old people struggling and it seems like their plan was to own their home. But that turned out more expensive than expected with maintenance and taxes. Which has just led to cyclical reverse mortgages. So the banks win in the end and ensure no transfer of wealth
*It’s necessary under the current system to fund services, but if we took it from elsewhere (like the ICE of military budgets) we could greatly reduce that tax.
Easy, property tax deduction on first 50% median price and then ramp up the tax rate above 200% median and above.
A refund based on assessed median home value would tend to penalize new home buyers over existing home owners, even if the existing home owner has a house that would sell for higher. Property tax assessments rarely keep up with home valuation.
I don’t quite get what you’re saying. If median home is 300k and your home is 350k assessed, then you pay property tax on 200k. 500k? Then 350k. Up to 600k where it would phase out and increase instead. I don’t see how that penalizes new home or first time home buyers. It subsidizes new homes with low assessment, starter homes, and downsized homes for the elderly. It penalizes homes worth more than 2x median.
Yes once a new home is fully assessed it could cost more potentially than an older home, but a good property formula solves for much of that. Usually it’s based on square foot and materials, not age.
In most places in the US, the assessed value of homes that have been owned for more than a decade is significantly less than the market value of a home.
The property tax burden therefore falls more on new home buyers rather than existing home owners. Eliminating the tax on the first portion of assessed value would make this existing imbalance worse, especially if the same amount of tax needed to be raised.
It’s a tricky problem.
With comps, sq ft, materials, insured rebuild value, etc… I don’t see how it could be that hard or that unfair to assess. The biggest issue is actually gentrification causing unaffordability in older homes. Some people will lose, and have to move. If you have no income, but you also have a nice home, you gotta reverse mortgage or get relocation assistance.
Even if you own a house, there are still plenty of expenses, like bills, property tax, groceries, healthcare ('Murica), and the occasional small luxury to stay sane.
Modern day Social Security isn’t even going to cover half of that.
It’s the normalisation process.
