Whining about being part of the same group that most rapists belong to when the overarching conversation is about how we prevent horrific crimes like gang rape is a choice a lot of men are making in here.
If you feel it’s more important to soothe men’s hurt feelings about being in the same group as most rapists rather than focusing on how we reduce rape, you have completely missed the fucking point.
I found that one around here somewhere right as I was going through a full Voyager watch. I haven’t used it before, but it’s perfect for some of the men in this comment section. Just so yuck!
First of all fuck this conversation for bringing up depressing statistics.
The 93℅ of convicts being male is something I cannot debate. Even the number of cases being registered brings it down to 90℅, so even if some men are hiding, I don’t think the numbers extrapolate below 85℅. Which honestly makes sense, rape is defined by power dynamics, and men are usually stronger than women, and 93℅ number matches closely with the strength distribution of male to female. Which is, 5℅ of women are stronger than 50℅ of the men. So even if I consider female to male rape being under reported, I don’t think margin would be that large, and would largely be balanced by women who don’t report.also looking up similar data from the EU only makes this case stronger. Only thing I have against the case is some anecdotes I’ve read when it comes to bars and discos about women being perpetrators far more often than numbers suggest, but like I said, those are anecdotes from reddit, so I’m not giving much weight to it till I see it myself,(or atleast if I see similar point being brought up in different threads). I tried being factual but fuck me for looking up all these numbers.
Secondly, it’s complex issue. Your beliefs and Morality is not just in your parents hands, it’s also your friends and by large today especially, the algorithm of your feed.
My biggest issue whenever y’all try to send messages like this is, these just never reach the people who need to hear it. As a man, I’m either in a group that’s actually full of women respecting people, or a place that doesn’t hesitate body shaming women on her freaking face. And I said “place” which means this is a socially accepted behavior amongst almost Everyone there. And what can I do when everyone around me is beyond redemption? I’ve met a guy who seriously took objection to the fact that most people chose to have their mothers signature in a form instead of their fathers. And yes, he was being misogynist, and he almost took pride in being called so.
Look I’m a socially awkward guy. I have no friends from that ‘place’. And if you ask me, they were beyond redemption anyways. Some might grow up in future, some won’t. I respect you western women for atleast avoiding people who display such behaviors, cause some women here didn’t even object. I had to think twice before standing up for someone cause how casually some of them treated it.
Rest I don’t even know what to say. It’s just depressing to talk about rapes in general.
Rest I don’t even know what to say. It’s just depressing to talk about rapes in general.
Trust, I don’t enjoy talking about this subject. But I think it’s important. Because there’s a general sentiment that feminism has gone far enough and that we’ve corrected enough to give women equality.
We haven’t. So I keep talking about it. And I keep posting news articles because this keeps happening over and over and over again.
Don’t lump yourself in with the men that choose to put their selfish wants above other’s boundaries if you don’t do so. Continue to speak up for the women in your life. That’s all that anyone can ask of you here.
This one’s not even that bad when it comes to getting lumped, cause I know only monsters do stuff like this, and I am not one of them, or almost anyone I’m in touch with.
Honestly most depressing one was when the grok was on a freaking rampage of nudifying women without their consent at the start of the year. Idk it was something freaking dystopian shit unfolding in front of my eyes, especially seeing how laxed government response was. I remember Linus from Linus tech tips getting emotional thinking this could be his children one day, and I realised I’m kinda lucky in that regard, cause my loved ones don’t post pictures online. But still, just the fact that something we considered sexual harassment until yesterday today became the new normal was horrifying. And barrier of entry was so low it could have just been any random guy who was doing that.
I still think we didn’t do enough to prevent this from happening silently.
I agree with you. Men need to be taught better and most rapist are men due to the obvious. However crime statistics always make me feel kinda gross and reminds me of conservatives doing the same for black crime statistics.
However crime statistics always make me feel kinda gross and reminds me of conservatives doing the same for black crime statistics.
I think there’s a fundamental difference.
Overpolicing of poor and black neighborhoods by racist cops looking to meet quotas creates “crime statistics”.
But this is under policing of rich white fraternities, resulting in chronic misconduct by a select few bad actors.
At some point, it’s like talking about serial killers or pedophiles from a racial lense, when the problem isn’t racial. It’s the fact that you don’t arrest Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Epstein, and they crank up the statistics for their cohort single handedly.
However crime statistics always make me feel kinda gross and reminds me of conservatives doing the same for black crime statistics.
You’d rather we don’t track the problem?
The numbers, even if they’re slightly inaccurate (which I don’t think they’re far off), show that there’s a clear imbalance as to who are the perpetrators. Women know this from experience as well.
There’s many reasons that men are overwhelmingly the demographic that rapes people and they’re not waived away by simply claiming that people are being sexist against men.
I don’t get the impression that that’s what they’re saying.
I get the impression that they agree, but that it’s literally the quoting of crime statistics to highlight a problem that feels bad to them.
Which I can understand. It invites quibbling over statistics and somehow distances you from the point being made because it highlights a pattern but leaves the conclusion up to the listener.
This in no way speaks against the statistic, the conclusion or the problem. Just commiserating that statistics have been used to mislead so often that it can feel bad to use them, even if entirely justified.
I agree that they’re missing the point, but if you think the point of threads like this is to focus on how to reduce rape, so are you. The point is to stimulate and/or vent anger about rape, barely even paying lip service to reducing it.
I’m not trying to silence anybody, and I don’t think anyone is accomplishing anything by being here, essentially we’re all just amusing ourselves. The delusion of accomplishment is part of that.
When you complain about people speaking up about rape and say it’s ineffective, you are telling them to quiet down. To stop. Save some of that energy for actual rapists instead of those outraged about being raped.
If the messaging doesn’t work let’s just keep doing it with no changes and tell everyone who misinterprets it they’re wrong? How is it I see the same comments on these posts for literally the past 10 years, clearly it’s not being communicated effectively.
The rapists in this particular story never saw any punishment outside of having to write some essays.
We could start with holding rapists accountable for their crimes. Until then, we’re not going to shut up about how many men are raping us with no consequences.
93.6% of sexual abuse offenders were men in 2021 in the US.
Statistics don’t matter if there is a bias at the data gathering level.
Thebkind if statistic that always gets shot down is the fact that woman-on-man rape is under reported, doesn’t get taken seriously when it does get reported, and usually doesn’t even get filed, and so makes no blip on rape statistics.
Most identified victims of child sexual abuse are girls, but boys also experience serious harm. Child protective services records show that boys make up a larger share of identified victims among younger children than among teenagers.
According to child protective services records, boys account for 30% of sexual abuse victims ages 0-11.
Among victims ages 12-17, boys account for 11%.
Sexual violence against men and boys is often overlooked, but police files show that it happens across multiple types of reported sex crimes.
Nationwide, in 11% of reported rapes, the victim is male.
Every survivor deserves to be recognized, believed, and supported. Naming sexual violence against men and boys helps make sure fewer survivors are left out of the conversation.
18% of U.S. men experience verbal sexual harassment at work or in public during their lifetimes.
At least 4% of rape is perpetrated by women.
Each year, an average of 5,510 female perpetrators are reported for rape, according to law enforcement reporting.
Bias does not account for the staggering difference between perpetrators though:
According to child protective services agencies nationwide, 89% of identified child sexual abuse perpetrators are male.
About 8% of identified offenders are female. The rest are unknown or unclassified.
Sexual violence can happen to anyone, but police files show that reported rape overwhelmingly involves female victims.
Nationwide, female victims experience nearly 9 in 10 reported rapes.
These numbers make clear why prevention, accountability, and survivor support must address the disproportionate harm experienced by girls and women, while recognizing that every survivor deserves care.
Source
The bias exists and to their credit, they even acknowledge it too, only you ignore it: They use the word “reported”, which is very important. We will never know the true numbers when it comes to rape. Many women will not report out of fear from repercussions or shame and I’m sure you’re well aware of that. But most men would never report out of shame if something does happen to them because men aren’t supposed to be rapeable. Your own statistics show that in childhood ~30% of victims are male but it quickly drops off to ~11% by the time we’re old enough to know we must never admit to being weak. Particularly in teenage years, the bullying would never end if a boy admits to being raped.
There’s a woman in my own life who holds certain power over me: The mother of my child (who I’m raising alone). I hate her with every fiber of my being, but the moment I stop pretending I’m ok with sleeping with her, she’ll make up random bullshit about me being a bad parent so she can kidnap our kid again. Who, last time it happened, was so traumatized it took a few months of being back home with me to mostly recover. But until she murders someone or gets caught doing hard drugs, she has 100% equal rights to the kid whose life she shows zero interest in until she needs something from me (usually sex or money, though I suspect the sex is an attempt to wrestle back control over me rather than for her enjoyment, she already has several other men, including the current one she’s in a “monogamous” relationship with), so there is no legal recourse, I’d have to straight up murder her to get peace and I have no intention of ever doing that. We can’t leave the country without her permission either, I’d be wanted internationally for kidnapping then.
So am I being raped? Maybe, maybe not. I’m not being held down physically or drugged, it’s certainly not as violent in this case as what many female victims experience, but I don’t REALLY consent to what’s happening, yet I have no choice and I also can’t let her know I don’t consent, I’ve done it in the past and it set off a horrible fucking chain of events. But it’s 1) completely unproveable, because she’s never threatened me and hasn’t used physical violence on me since the divorce, it’s only clear from her past actions how she starts behaving when I don’t pretend to be easily swayed by her “feminine powers” anymore, and 2) even if I could prove it, I have no faith anything would come out of it. She would certainly never get convicted, she could commit a crime in front of a police officer and get away with it, most people never see through her blatant lies, because she can and will tell you that the sky is actually lime green and she WILL believe it herself as she’s saying it to you. I’ve witnessed her get away with dozens of things over the 3 years I’ve known her. And I’m also not a fan of having my house painted, my car trashed, or any of the other things she’s done to her other exes who have dared tell her off. Not immediately. Months or in one case years later so you could never prove or perhaps even know that it was her.
So while I agree that straight up posting #notallmen unprompted after something like the Cornell 7 incident comes to light makes you either an idiot or a bad faith actor, I can’t help but feel like some frustration is justified as our whole gender is being labeled as dangerous based on reported statistics where we know most of us would never report if anything happened to us because society expects us to never be raped and you’re a weak pussy if you do get taken advantage of, especially by a woman. And I’m not going to pretend that the numbers would be equal even if every single rape or sexual abuse case was reported, it’s just frustrating knowing you’re considered evil or dangerous just because you were born with the wrong genitalia, while by default the people with the other type of genitalia can’t be rapists.
Right now, something about the conversation is just not working. There must be a way to get the men who are not okay with rape to be angry at those who are, instead of getting them to feel like they’re being lumped in with the rapists by default. The fact that you post “a lot of men are rapists though” in a significant portion of your comments, makes you part of it. Even constantly posting the statistics isn’t actually helping advance anyone’s understanding, pretty much everyone already knows most rapes are perpetrated by men. Far fewer people know about the untested rape kit backlog (though fortunately that’s also been in the news this cycle, that’s how I found out for one), or how often women who report being raped (including the Jane Doe at Cornell) aren’t offered rape kits - and those should be offered by default, not asked for by the victim, who in distress might not even realize that’s an option. This particular Jane Doe didn’t outright say “I was raped” to the doctor, but she did hint at it, which every medical professional needs to be able to catch and react to. So many issues people need to be educated about, instead of being lectured about the one thing everyone already knows.
overarching conversation is about how we prevent horrific crimes like gang rape is a choice a lot of men are making in here.
That is not how the conversation is framed. The conversation is framed on shaming and bullying all men, because some men are rapist. Why are you surprised that many react negatively to it?
If you feel it’s more important to soothe men’s hurt feelings about being in the same group as most rapists rather than focusing on how we reduce rape, y
Do you remember the bear in the woods?
If the narrative (in the mass media) was about reducing rape, it would be focused on HOW to do it. Not on tar and feather. This is not productive, this is airing anger.
I live in the EU (location is important in rape prevention discussion), a country in dead center of it. There was once a panel about rape prevention in tv, some minor politician, that’s it.
Noone really offers any solutions, even in this thread, so I can well damn start.
There are multiple reasons why people commit rape, how they do, why thy feel enabled. Those are ALWAYS tied to the culture, as law doesn’t prevent crime, only dictates punishments.
Do we agree on that?
Lets distinguish native rape crimes from foreign-born rape crimes, and focus only on the first (example, Germany, 40% perpetrators are foreign born).
Continuing on our example, Germany, when asked and studied, convinced rapists often turn out to be societal “losers”, with reinforced online presence especially in “incel” and similar circles, including blackpill etc communities. Even the underground ones. When studied, psychologists often ascribe the crime to entitlement or desire for domination. The future rapists feel validated by anonymous people online, until the thought of commiting rape normalizes in their heads.
I can’t be the only person who thinks the solution to this particular portion of the problem (in our example likely the largest) is quite simple: mandatory online ids, that remove the possibility of anonymous circles. Break the enablers group.
rapists rather than focusing on how we reduce rape,
Me
Okay, lets focus on reducing rape then. Gives an example.
Also you
The majority of rapists are men though.
Okay. Can we get back to taking about reducing rape? I gave a proposal, an okay analysis of one facet of it, do you have an opinion on it? Your own thoughts? If you do not want to share them, then that is also okay, but I do believe sincerely that calling “we should focus on it” and then not focusing on it, is not going to be helpful.
The conversation is framed on shaming and bullying all men, because some men are rapist. Why are you surprised that many react negatively to it?
No, let’s be clear here. You are complaining that the majority of rapists are men and that people are accurately pointing that out.
There’s two direct approaches that are being actively discussed here - punish rapists appropriately and teach our children about consent and respecting boundaries.
No, let’s be clear here. You are complaining that the majority of rapists are men and that people are accurately pointing that out.
I dont think so? At least that was not my intention.
I do agree that #notallmen is reactionary.
I also believe that the media pressure is calling all the men rapists.
I was trying to convey that having any kind of movement (because to decrease the rape rate, we will need to have a grassroot movement to push the issue) that alienates part of society, will not be successful. And campaigning on hurting the feelings of men is a bad, pointless idea. Why do it. What for? That’s not solving the problem.
I will reply to the second part separately, it will be easier that way
There’s two direct approaches that are being actively discussed here - punish rapists appropriately.
Punishment is reactive. No law prevents crime. Even capital punishment did not lower the crime rate to 0.
USA has 2.5 times higher rape rate than Germany (and Germany has no means no laws, that meant to help reporting rapes).
It could be that - if that is your country - you need stricter judicial punishments for rape! But do note that is not the ultimate solution. It can be one of first steps necessary in your country, but won’t be the last.
our children about consent and respecting boundaries.
Again (comparing Germany and USA rates) this seems to be step in correct direction, but at best it will get you somewhere in the ballpark of Germany rate (progress, but not ideal).
I do believe my proposal (mandatory online Id) would be a next step in the solution - but then I am stomped.
Even capital punishment did not lower the crime rate to 0.
Harsher sentencing doesn’t necessarily help beyond a certain minimum level required to make people consider it a meaningful punishment. The more important thing is consistent and vigorous application of the law. If people aren’t even being investigated, let alone charged or convicted, they’re going to feel emboldened to continue offending.
40% of foreign born convicted offenders doesn’t sound as a surprise, as it still make 60% of national convicted offenders (despite our education, culture, and other similar things we use to think ourself different). Also, the majority of “loosers” in the convicted people could hide some inequality (“winners” being protected).
The cases I personaly know aren’t representative. But they happend in the middle class, by family members, and the victims were requested to keep silence by their whole family. To protect the honor and integrity of the family, and because they “would be responsible” of spliting the family. And if the victim don’t go to police, their is “no case” (officially, in the stats)…
Also, when the accused is from high class, they are rarely convicted. Most find a way to escape it, even when as Dominique Strauss-Khan the facts are clear (you have heared about it, but you forgot); their money and power allow them to avoid infamy. Not condemn, so not part of the numbers.
Also, the number of cases rising from the past let me think their are not more cases now thanks to Internet, but that Internet allows victim to unite so they dare speak. Restricting internet anonymity could reduce this and turn them back to silence, which would make less cases in tribunals and papers, but most likely more cases in real.
But so, I feel like giving to kids an education about this, and letting them know they have spaces to talk about the problems they may live or witness, and providing such spaces (not only for kids) to listen them anonimously, and accompany them ; is an easy and cheap step which could help a lot. Or am I wrong?
Germany rape rate per 100k is higher than South Korea. Are you asking for a cwtch all magical solution from the start? I’m not a god.
Also, you sound like a white nationalist, so fuck off.
(Me literally making sure noone would try to go that way)
Same to you too I guess (apparently mod is biased that I am not allowed to use the same words as you).
And I do find it abhorring that you’re going for bullying and airing your anger instead of trying to even discuss how bring the solutiin into existence
You blamed rape on “foreign-born” people, and said it was a “cultural problem”. Considering that you also used the prosecuted rate (which would inherently target minorities by virtue of systemic injustices and bias your results) as opposed to using something that would more accurately show the true population of sexual assaults (such as reported sexual assaults), it kinda tips your hand that you’re dogwhistling white supremacy talking points.
Also, I point out South Korea because your solution sucks. A better solution is to not protect sexual assaulters. Fun fact, most sexual assaults aren’t prosecuted, and even more aren’t reported, and you know who gets shit on for that? Women! I hear from men, more often than I should, that women should report their assaults, and in the same breath, talk about how they have to prove they were assaulted. And if you think about that, like really think about it, having to find the proof you were assaulted is fucking insane. The police constantly lose rape kits or don’t even fucking do them. Accusers are harassed nonstop. People speculate about what the woman did to get herself into that situation, but never the fucking man. No, a false accusation could ruin his fucking life, but being sexually assaulted somehow means you have to be the one to prove a crime happened.
Why is it so fucking hard for people to wonder why sexual assault is so underreported?
You blamed rape on “foreign-born” people, and said it was a “cultural problem”.
Please read my post again. I wrote that according to statistics about 40% of rapes are committed in Germany by foreign born people, and that I literally will ignore it for the rest of my post. Like literally literally.
What are you arguing with? Statistics? Me saying I am going to ignore that because it could be tainted, and then quoted psychologists reports that only targeted native Germans, again ignoring foreign born pops to not taint?
After removing the foreign born population from the discussion, I wrote that rape occurrence is directly related to culture of the country/people (meaning, again, ignoring foreign borns part because that could be tainted).
And then you came, swinging some white supremacist shit.
such as reported sexual assaults)
Literally the number I used.
Also, I point out South Korea because your solution sucks
Why? You gave no argument nor reason why it would suck.
The police constantly lose rape kits or don’t even fucking do them. Accusers are harassed nonstop
Literally what I called culture.
Now you are ascribing USA police culture of rape perpetrator protection to German police. Excuse me, but I know nothing of USA’s. Literally (I keep using this word a lot when replying to your comment, it is frustrating) mentioned that in my first post.
Whining about being part of the same group that most rapists belong to when the overarching conversation is about how we prevent horrific crimes like gang rape is a choice a lot of men are making in here.
If you feel it’s more important to soothe men’s hurt feelings about being in the same group as most rapists rather than focusing on how we reduce rape, you have completely missed the fucking point.
93.6% of sexual abuse offenders were men in 2021 in the US.
Velma, this is exactly why I love you so much 💚
<3
Thanks for being a voice with me, dkppunk.
My face when reading some of these comments
Some of y’all guys are nasty
Somehow that picture has a similar vibe to this oldie:
I found that one around here somewhere right as I was going through a full Voyager watch. I haven’t used it before, but it’s perfect for some of the men in this comment section. Just so yuck!
Always have your back lady 💚
Convicted offenders. Worth the precision.
A 20-year review of sexual assault case outcomes found that just under 20% of reported rape and sexual assault cases are criminally charged.
Also worth mentioning for the precision.
First of all fuck this conversation for bringing up depressing statistics.
The 93℅ of convicts being male is something I cannot debate. Even the number of cases being registered brings it down to 90℅, so even if some men are hiding, I don’t think the numbers extrapolate below 85℅. Which honestly makes sense, rape is defined by power dynamics, and men are usually stronger than women, and 93℅ number matches closely with the strength distribution of male to female. Which is, 5℅ of women are stronger than 50℅ of the men. So even if I consider female to male rape being under reported, I don’t think margin would be that large, and would largely be balanced by women who don’t report.also looking up similar data from the EU only makes this case stronger. Only thing I have against the case is some anecdotes I’ve read when it comes to bars and discos about women being perpetrators far more often than numbers suggest, but like I said, those are anecdotes from reddit, so I’m not giving much weight to it till I see it myself,(or atleast if I see similar point being brought up in different threads). I tried being factual but fuck me for looking up all these numbers.
Secondly, it’s complex issue. Your beliefs and Morality is not just in your parents hands, it’s also your friends and by large today especially, the algorithm of your feed.
My biggest issue whenever y’all try to send messages like this is, these just never reach the people who need to hear it. As a man, I’m either in a group that’s actually full of women respecting people, or a place that doesn’t hesitate body shaming women on her freaking face. And I said “place” which means this is a socially accepted behavior amongst almost Everyone there. And what can I do when everyone around me is beyond redemption? I’ve met a guy who seriously took objection to the fact that most people chose to have their mothers signature in a form instead of their fathers. And yes, he was being misogynist, and he almost took pride in being called so.
Look I’m a socially awkward guy. I have no friends from that ‘place’. And if you ask me, they were beyond redemption anyways. Some might grow up in future, some won’t. I respect you western women for atleast avoiding people who display such behaviors, cause some women here didn’t even object. I had to think twice before standing up for someone cause how casually some of them treated it.
Rest I don’t even know what to say. It’s just depressing to talk about rapes in general.
Trust, I don’t enjoy talking about this subject. But I think it’s important. Because there’s a general sentiment that feminism has gone far enough and that we’ve corrected enough to give women equality.
We haven’t. So I keep talking about it. And I keep posting news articles because this keeps happening over and over and over again.
I posted some stats here that cover a range of issues.
Don’t lump yourself in with the men that choose to put their selfish wants above other’s boundaries if you don’t do so. Continue to speak up for the women in your life. That’s all that anyone can ask of you here.
This one’s not even that bad when it comes to getting lumped, cause I know only monsters do stuff like this, and I am not one of them, or almost anyone I’m in touch with.
Honestly most depressing one was when the grok was on a freaking rampage of nudifying women without their consent at the start of the year. Idk it was something freaking dystopian shit unfolding in front of my eyes, especially seeing how laxed government response was. I remember Linus from Linus tech tips getting emotional thinking this could be his children one day, and I realised I’m kinda lucky in that regard, cause my loved ones don’t post pictures online. But still, just the fact that something we considered sexual harassment until yesterday today became the new normal was horrifying. And barrier of entry was so low it could have just been any random guy who was doing that.
I still think we didn’t do enough to prevent this from happening silently.
I agree with you. Men need to be taught better and most rapist are men due to the obvious. However crime statistics always make me feel kinda gross and reminds me of conservatives doing the same for black crime statistics.
I think there’s a fundamental difference.
Overpolicing of poor and black neighborhoods by racist cops looking to meet quotas creates “crime statistics”.
But this is under policing of rich white fraternities, resulting in chronic misconduct by a select few bad actors.
At some point, it’s like talking about serial killers or pedophiles from a racial lense, when the problem isn’t racial. It’s the fact that you don’t arrest Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Epstein, and they crank up the statistics for their cohort single handedly.
You’d rather we don’t track the problem?
The numbers, even if they’re slightly inaccurate (which I don’t think they’re far off), show that there’s a clear imbalance as to who are the perpetrators. Women know this from experience as well.
There’s many reasons that men are overwhelmingly the demographic that rapes people and they’re not waived away by simply claiming that people are being sexist against men.
I don’t get the impression that that’s what they’re saying.
I get the impression that they agree, but that it’s literally the quoting of crime statistics to highlight a problem that feels bad to them.
Which I can understand. It invites quibbling over statistics and somehow distances you from the point being made because it highlights a pattern but leaves the conclusion up to the listener.
This in no way speaks against the statistic, the conclusion or the problem. Just commiserating that statistics have been used to mislead so often that it can feel bad to use them, even if entirely justified.
I agree that they’re missing the point, but if you think the point of threads like this is to focus on how to reduce rape, so are you. The point is to stimulate and/or vent anger about rape, barely even paying lip service to reducing it.
Awareness is half the battle. Social pressure can move mountains.
Awareness is far less than half the battle lol, but what a nice rationalization for dodging the actual work - let me write that down!
Posting news stories or about news stories is not mutually exclusive to other work towards rape reduction.
Technically, but in practice we both know the one usually happens without the other.
What do you think you’re accomplishing by trying to silence people demanding consequences for rapists?
I’m not trying to silence anybody, and I don’t think anyone is accomplishing anything by being here, essentially we’re all just amusing ourselves. The delusion of accomplishment is part of that.
You suck
I do much, much more beyond my computer screen.
When you complain about people speaking up about rape and say it’s ineffective, you are telling them to quiet down. To stop. Save some of that energy for actual rapists instead of those outraged about being raped.
If the messaging doesn’t work let’s just keep doing it with no changes and tell everyone who misinterprets it they’re wrong? How is it I see the same comments on these posts for literally the past 10 years, clearly it’s not being communicated effectively.
The rapists in this particular story never saw any punishment outside of having to write some essays.
We could start with holding rapists accountable for their crimes. Until then, we’re not going to shut up about how many men are raping us with no consequences.
Statistics don’t matter if there is a bias at the data gathering level.
Thebkind if statistic that always gets shot down is the fact that woman-on-man rape is under reported, doesn’t get taken seriously when it does get reported, and usually doesn’t even get filed, and so makes no blip on rape statistics.
Also consider this a warning for misinformation. Bring sources if you’re going to push statistics.
You know when you shouldn’t be bringing up male victim statistics?
When we’re literally discussing events around a male on female gang rape that was “handled” with having to write an essay
Bringing that up here and now here just makes you look like you’re trying to derail the conversation
You’re pushing misinformation. It is tracked:
Bias does not account for the staggering difference between perpetrators though:
Clearly you don’t know what statistical bias looks like.
You are responsible for perpetuating a problem.
You think Rainn.org is biased?
Go ahead and bring your unbiased sources. I’m waiting.
The bias exists and to their credit, they even acknowledge it too, only you ignore it: They use the word “reported”, which is very important. We will never know the true numbers when it comes to rape. Many women will not report out of fear from repercussions or shame and I’m sure you’re well aware of that. But most men would never report out of shame if something does happen to them because men aren’t supposed to be rapeable. Your own statistics show that in childhood ~30% of victims are male but it quickly drops off to ~11% by the time we’re old enough to know we must never admit to being weak. Particularly in teenage years, the bullying would never end if a boy admits to being raped.
There’s a woman in my own life who holds certain power over me: The mother of my child (who I’m raising alone). I hate her with every fiber of my being, but the moment I stop pretending I’m ok with sleeping with her, she’ll make up random bullshit about me being a bad parent so she can kidnap our kid again. Who, last time it happened, was so traumatized it took a few months of being back home with me to mostly recover. But until she murders someone or gets caught doing hard drugs, she has 100% equal rights to the kid whose life she shows zero interest in until she needs something from me (usually sex or money, though I suspect the sex is an attempt to wrestle back control over me rather than for her enjoyment, she already has several other men, including the current one she’s in a “monogamous” relationship with), so there is no legal recourse, I’d have to straight up murder her to get peace and I have no intention of ever doing that. We can’t leave the country without her permission either, I’d be wanted internationally for kidnapping then.
So am I being raped? Maybe, maybe not. I’m not being held down physically or drugged, it’s certainly not as violent in this case as what many female victims experience, but I don’t REALLY consent to what’s happening, yet I have no choice and I also can’t let her know I don’t consent, I’ve done it in the past and it set off a horrible fucking chain of events. But it’s 1) completely unproveable, because she’s never threatened me and hasn’t used physical violence on me since the divorce, it’s only clear from her past actions how she starts behaving when I don’t pretend to be easily swayed by her “feminine powers” anymore, and 2) even if I could prove it, I have no faith anything would come out of it. She would certainly never get convicted, she could commit a crime in front of a police officer and get away with it, most people never see through her blatant lies, because she can and will tell you that the sky is actually lime green and she WILL believe it herself as she’s saying it to you. I’ve witnessed her get away with dozens of things over the 3 years I’ve known her. And I’m also not a fan of having my house painted, my car trashed, or any of the other things she’s done to her other exes who have dared tell her off. Not immediately. Months or in one case years later so you could never prove or perhaps even know that it was her.
So while I agree that straight up posting #notallmen unprompted after something like the Cornell 7 incident comes to light makes you either an idiot or a bad faith actor, I can’t help but feel like some frustration is justified as our whole gender is being labeled as dangerous based on reported statistics where we know most of us would never report if anything happened to us because society expects us to never be raped and you’re a weak pussy if you do get taken advantage of, especially by a woman. And I’m not going to pretend that the numbers would be equal even if every single rape or sexual abuse case was reported, it’s just frustrating knowing you’re considered evil or dangerous just because you were born with the wrong genitalia, while by default the people with the other type of genitalia can’t be rapists.
Right now, something about the conversation is just not working. There must be a way to get the men who are not okay with rape to be angry at those who are, instead of getting them to feel like they’re being lumped in with the rapists by default. The fact that you post “a lot of men are rapists though” in a significant portion of your comments, makes you part of it. Even constantly posting the statistics isn’t actually helping advance anyone’s understanding, pretty much everyone already knows most rapes are perpetrated by men. Far fewer people know about the untested rape kit backlog (though fortunately that’s also been in the news this cycle, that’s how I found out for one), or how often women who report being raped (including the Jane Doe at Cornell) aren’t offered rape kits - and those should be offered by default, not asked for by the victim, who in distress might not even realize that’s an option. This particular Jane Doe didn’t outright say “I was raped” to the doctor, but she did hint at it, which every medical professional needs to be able to catch and react to. So many issues people need to be educated about, instead of being lectured about the one thing everyone already knows.
How about you fuck off?
The only men Ive known who were raped, were raped by other men.
Most rapists of women, children, and men are other men. You’re not wrong with this point.
That is not how the conversation is framed. The conversation is framed on shaming and bullying all men, because some men are rapist. Why are you surprised that many react negatively to it?
Do you remember the bear in the woods?
If the narrative (in the mass media) was about reducing rape, it would be focused on HOW to do it. Not on tar and feather. This is not productive, this is airing anger.
I live in the EU (location is important in rape prevention discussion), a country in dead center of it. There was once a panel about rape prevention in tv, some minor politician, that’s it.
Noone really offers any solutions, even in this thread, so I can well damn start.
There are multiple reasons why people commit rape, how they do, why thy feel enabled. Those are ALWAYS tied to the culture, as law doesn’t prevent crime, only dictates punishments.
Do we agree on that?
Lets distinguish native rape crimes from foreign-born rape crimes, and focus only on the first (example, Germany, 40% perpetrators are foreign born).
Continuing on our example, Germany, when asked and studied, convinced rapists often turn out to be societal “losers”, with reinforced online presence especially in “incel” and similar circles, including blackpill etc communities. Even the underground ones. When studied, psychologists often ascribe the crime to entitlement or desire for domination. The future rapists feel validated by anonymous people online, until the thought of commiting rape normalizes in their heads.
I can’t be the only person who thinks the solution to this particular portion of the problem (in our example likely the largest) is quite simple: mandatory online ids, that remove the possibility of anonymous circles. Break the enablers group.
This post is framing the conversation around preventing rape and specifically says it is not all men.
The majority of rapists are men though.
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Me
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Okay. Can we get back to taking about reducing rape? I gave a proposal, an okay analysis of one facet of it, do you have an opinion on it? Your own thoughts? If you do not want to share them, then that is also okay, but I do believe sincerely that calling “we should focus on it” and then not focusing on it, is not going to be helpful.
No, let’s be clear here. You are complaining that the majority of rapists are men and that people are accurately pointing that out.
There’s two direct approaches that are being actively discussed here - punish rapists appropriately and teach our children about consent and respecting boundaries.
I dont think so? At least that was not my intention.
I do agree that #notallmen is reactionary.
I also believe that the media pressure is calling all the men rapists.
I was trying to convey that having any kind of movement (because to decrease the rape rate, we will need to have a grassroot movement to push the issue) that alienates part of society, will not be successful. And campaigning on hurting the feelings of men is a bad, pointless idea. Why do it. What for? That’s not solving the problem.
I will reply to the second part separately, it will be easier that way
No one is campaigning on hurting the feelings of men. Rapists can use some hurt feelings and some fucking jail time though.
Punishment is reactive. No law prevents crime. Even capital punishment did not lower the crime rate to 0.
USA has 2.5 times higher rape rate than Germany (and Germany has no means no laws, that meant to help reporting rapes).
It could be that - if that is your country - you need stricter judicial punishments for rape! But do note that is not the ultimate solution. It can be one of first steps necessary in your country, but won’t be the last.
Again (comparing Germany and USA rates) this seems to be step in correct direction, but at best it will get you somewhere in the ballpark of Germany rate (progress, but not ideal).
I do believe my proposal (mandatory online Id) would be a next step in the solution - but then I am stomped.
Yes that is directly being called for here in the US about this issue.
Harsher sentencing doesn’t necessarily help beyond a certain minimum level required to make people consider it a meaningful punishment. The more important thing is consistent and vigorous application of the law. If people aren’t even being investigated, let alone charged or convicted, they’re going to feel emboldened to continue offending.
Hello from Europe too,
40% of foreign born convicted offenders doesn’t sound as a surprise, as it still make 60% of national convicted offenders (despite our education, culture, and other similar things we use to think ourself different). Also, the majority of “loosers” in the convicted people could hide some inequality (“winners” being protected).
The cases I personaly know aren’t representative. But they happend in the middle class, by family members, and the victims were requested to keep silence by their whole family. To protect the honor and integrity of the family, and because they “would be responsible” of spliting the family. And if the victim don’t go to police, their is “no case” (officially, in the stats)…
Also, when the accused is from high class, they are rarely convicted. Most find a way to escape it, even when as Dominique Strauss-Khan the facts are clear (you have heared about it, but you forgot); their money and power allow them to avoid infamy. Not condemn, so not part of the numbers.
Also, the number of cases rising from the past let me think their are not more cases now thanks to Internet, but that Internet allows victim to unite so they dare speak. Restricting internet anonymity could reduce this and turn them back to silence, which would make less cases in tribunals and papers, but most likely more cases in real.
But so, I feel like giving to kids an education about this, and letting them know they have spaces to talk about the problems they may live or witness, and providing such spaces (not only for kids) to listen them anonimously, and accompany them ; is an easy and cheap step which could help a lot. Or am I wrong?
Hey, uh, quick question, dipshit: Does South Korea, with its mandatory online IDs, have a sexual violence problem?
Also, you sound like a white nationalist, so fuck off.
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Germany rape rate per 100k is higher than South Korea. Are you asking for a cwtch all magical solution from the start? I’m not a god.
(Me literally making sure noone would try to go that way)
Same to you too I guess (apparently mod is biased that I am not allowed to use the same words as you).
And I do find it abhorring that you’re going for bullying and airing your anger instead of trying to even discuss how bring the solutiin into existence
Fuck off is different than fuck you.
Noted. This is not my first language, that’s all I can say for myself.
You blamed rape on “foreign-born” people, and said it was a “cultural problem”. Considering that you also used the prosecuted rate (which would inherently target minorities by virtue of systemic injustices and bias your results) as opposed to using something that would more accurately show the true population of sexual assaults (such as reported sexual assaults), it kinda tips your hand that you’re dogwhistling white supremacy talking points.
Also, I point out South Korea because your solution sucks. A better solution is to not protect sexual assaulters. Fun fact, most sexual assaults aren’t prosecuted, and even more aren’t reported, and you know who gets shit on for that? Women! I hear from men, more often than I should, that women should report their assaults, and in the same breath, talk about how they have to prove they were assaulted. And if you think about that, like really think about it, having to find the proof you were assaulted is fucking insane. The police constantly lose rape kits or don’t even fucking do them. Accusers are harassed nonstop. People speculate about what the woman did to get herself into that situation, but never the fucking man. No, a false accusation could ruin his fucking life, but being sexually assaulted somehow means you have to be the one to prove a crime happened.
Why is it so fucking hard for people to wonder why sexual assault is so underreported?
Please read my post again. I wrote that according to statistics about 40% of rapes are committed in Germany by foreign born people, and that I literally will ignore it for the rest of my post. Like literally literally.
What are you arguing with? Statistics? Me saying I am going to ignore that because it could be tainted, and then quoted psychologists reports that only targeted native Germans, again ignoring foreign born pops to not taint?
After removing the foreign born population from the discussion, I wrote that rape occurrence is directly related to culture of the country/people (meaning, again, ignoring foreign borns part because that could be tainted).
And then you came, swinging some white supremacist shit.
Literally the number I used.
Why? You gave no argument nor reason why it would suck.
Literally what I called culture.
Now you are ascribing USA police culture of rape perpetrator protection to German police. Excuse me, but I know nothing of USA’s. Literally (I keep using this word a lot when replying to your comment, it is frustrating) mentioned that in my first post.