L’année dernière le sujet a été abordés par @AlexisFR@jlai.lu et je souhaite relancé l’idée de dé-fédérer de cette instance.

Je navigue depuis quelque temps sans bloquer la moindre instances question de simuler un peu l’expérience de quelqu’un qui rejoint le fediverse via l’instance jlai.lu.

Les posts qui apparaissent dans le fil et le comportement de la plupart des usagers de cette instance pollue tout simplement l’expérience Lemmy.

Même sans parler de possible liens avec CCP, Kremlin etc… je pense que, à mon humble avis, leur comportement et leur façons de brigader et de diffamer une opinion qui ne diverge que d’à peine d’un poil de leur courant de penser, va sincèrement à l’encontre de l’état d’esprit de notre communauté sur cette instance.

Je me suis opposé sans vraiment me prononcer l’année dernière à une dé-fédération (étant donné qu’ils ne sont pas francophone et que j’aime bien le drama inter-instances de temps temps) mais leurs prises de positions en permanence ahurissantes et (en pesant mes mots au maximum) d’une flagrante dissonance cognitive je dois dire que trop c’est trop.

Je pense sincèrement que malgré le fait nos intéractions soit assez minimes avec cette instance je pense que sur le long terme leur influence est nocive et que, dans l’idée de garder une certaines sérénité pour les personnes et futures personnes qui utiliseront cette instance, qu’il y ai une dé-fédération de cette instance de la notre.

  • Baleine@jlai.lu
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    2 months ago

    En voyant leurs réponses à ce post, je soutiens ton avis. Être désagréable comme ca parce qu’on met en question ton instance c’est toxique.

    • Jomn@jlai.lu
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      J’étais vraiment neutre sur la question avant ce post, mais au vu de leur brigading, je plussoie maintenant totalement le fait de les défédérer.

      • Professeur Falken@jlai.lu
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        2 months ago

        J’étais vraiment neutre sur la question avant ce post, mais au vu de leur brigading, je plussoie maintenant totalement le fait de les défédérer.

        +1

    • inlandempire@jlai.lu
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      Même avis que toi, ils ne s’aident pas avec ce genre de brigading dès que le nom de leur instance est mentionné

      Edit : d’ailleurs perso quand je vais voir une instance autre que jlai.lu, je fais attention à leurs règles, ce qui clairement n’est pas leur cas vu les attaques gratuites envers OP, entre autres

      • DarkNightoftheSoul@mander.xyz
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        2 months ago

        probably just me tbh. i have like, most of fedi blocked for being only brainrot meta shitposts and such. it keeps more serious stuff like this from smaller communities in my feed regularly even though i browse all/active mostly.

        for my part i blocked hexbear within a week of joining and have not looked back, and i think blocking at the personal level is the appropriate course here.

      • grue@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Just because this post is about internal jlai.lu instance policy, that doesn’t stop it from showing up in the feeds of users of other instances whose views are set to “all.”

        • Camus (il, lui)@jlai.lu
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          It does, but it requires someone from that instance to subscribe the community for it to be federated. You’re on LW, but on smaller instances it’s usually not the case. That’s why I was surprised.

          I want to check know how many people subscribe from mander.xyz to this community, but mander seems down at the moment.

      • pseudo@jlai.lu
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        2 months ago

        +1! I’ve been absent… what? 13 hours and I find out what? Que notre instance est prise à l’abordage par Hexbear et que les autres instances sont autour à popcorn ?! Il se passe quoi au juste ??
        Bon sang… Plus je lis les commentaires, plus j’écarquille les yeux OP a invoqué tout le gratin du fédivers avec son petit post.

  • TheFrirish@jlai.luOP
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    Bon pour revenir ici et lister quelque exemples on pour ce qui est de l’appel à la violence on a :

    https://hexbear.net/comment/5511565

    pour la toxicité en général on a ce post :

    https://hexbear.net/post/3683187

    Célébration de la violence :

    https://hexbear.net/post/3628416

    Ce n’est que quelque exemples de façon générale même si on peut être d’accord ou pas avec leur message. C’est en opposition assez concrète avec le message que l’on porte ici.

    Edit : Je suis désolé pour les admins/modos car mon intention de base était d’enrichir au moins le contenu sur cette instance avec un débat/conversation mais à la place je suis accidentellement responsable d’avoir secoué un nids de frelons ce qui a profondément nuit à la conversation.

    • Snoopy@jlai.lu
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      Excuses acceptées. En tout cas, ça ne justifiait pas leur reactions virulentes non plus. D’autres se sont posés, on prendra tout le temps qu’il faut.

      D’un autre coté, ça peut être justement l’occasion de discuter avec eux, d’expliquer ce qui est problématique et de les amener à changer un peu.

      Puis, ça fait un moment que c’est tranquille ici. :)

    • AlexisFR@jlai.lu
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      2 months ago

      Pas la peine de s’excuser ! Au moins, maintenant, on a eu une magnifique démonstration de ce que j’ai critiqué l’année dernière.

  • Mubelotix@jlai.lu
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    J’ai été banni de memes sur hexbear pour avoir réaffirmé le génocide en cours des Uyghours en Chine. Cette instance est malsaine et répand la désinformation

  • Camus (il, lui)@jlai.lu
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    Hello,

    Merci pour ce post.
    Aurais-tu des examples de leurs prises de positions? Cela permettrait que chacun puisse se faire une idée

      • Camus (il, lui)@jlai.lu
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        Ca resterait bien d’avoir 2-3 exemples. Pour les défendre, si on venait venir parler de défédérer Jlai.lu à cause de comportement problématiques sans donner d’exemples, je serais sans doute un peu remonté aussi.

        • TheFrirish@jlai.luOP
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          Pour les comportements problématiques ça va être assez simple car rien que dans ce fil ils viennent de faire le travail à ma place. Les autres personnes si elles n’ont pas encore bloqué cette instance n’ont qu’à lire les commentaires ici.

          Je n’ai rien à ajouter de plus.

  • DeftHani@jlai.lu
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    2 months ago

    Quand j’ai lu le titre du post et vu le nombre de commentaires, je savais déjà ce que j’allais trouver en cliquant dessus.

    Alors mes chers petits jlailuftwaffen, vous en pensez quoi de l’expérience Hexagonours ? 😅

  • AntiOutsideAktion [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    Perhaps you should just log off instead of publicly crying about how someone made fun of you for having a bad opinion

    Anyway, I’m heading back to the fucking Kremlin lmao. I’ll leave you to lauding nazis for their ‘mercy killings’

        • Camus (il, lui)@jlai.lu
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          Je suis bien au courant, maintenant je suis surpris que cette communauté ait atteint le “Hot” de chez vous avec 5 votes.

          Après, j’imagine que vu que vous êtes défédérés par Lemmy.world, lemmy.blahaj.zone et d’autres, ça doit restreindre pas mal le nombre de posts dans votre flux.

          Je pensais aussi que cette communauté forçait de poster avec un tag “français”, apparemment ce n’est pas le cas.

        • Snoopy@jlai.lu
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          We aren’t talking about defederating but listening to his complain. I’m curious, did you subcribe to meta@jlai.lu and why ? Or was it the magic of federation ? :)

            • Snoopy@jlai.lu
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              I recap again, the moderation stance and admins isn’t about defederating without any proof. Please, read the com of @anansi@jlai.lu, the admin of jlai.lu

              @meta@jlai.lu is a place where anyone can complain about mismanagement from our part or asking defederation, improvement, advice and help.

              But we NEVER EVER defederate with the snap of a finger because it does impedes users’s experience. We only do it for very serious case or temporary to stop spam wave.

              This place is where we share opinion about our instance. It is not related to our decision.

      • AntiOutsideAktion [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        2 months ago

        I went looking in their post history for the incitement to make this complaint and saw that they were denying nazi warcrimes in the Ukraine war by calling their side’s acts “mercy killings”

        • TheFrirish@jlai.luOP
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          Ces accusations sont complètement infondées. Je n’ai jamais soutenu ces positions. j’ai même indiqué que c’était justement un crime de guerre de la part de l’Ukraine dans ce conflit. C’est une déformation totale de mes propos.

          Essayer d’expliquer que un côté peu commettre plus de crimes de guerre que un autre sans nier leur existence dans chaque camps et un exercice mental bien trop complexe pour vous visiblement.

          • AntiOutsideAktion [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            So you take this group of nazis that has locked people inside burning buildings, and you contrast their war crimes favorably to their enemies by singling out “mercy killings” as if that’s the only thing they’ve done. Contrasted by multiple superlatives towards the enemy’s spectrum of war crimes you couldn’t even list.

            I never said you support war crimes; I implied you support nazis.

            • nope@jlai.lu
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              2 months ago

              Peut-être pourrais-tu donner des liens vers les posts/commentaires dont tu parles ? Ça aiderait ton argumentaire

                • Snoopy@jlai.lu
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                  We ask the same for everyone, this is also a protection for you and a way for us to check the context and his explanation.

                  If i do as you said, i can select some comments out of context that will invalidate your point. You don’t want to give room to some kind of gaslighting ? you want to back up your argument, right ? So this is a protection.

                  And, also think we may not understand the same thing as you do. We may see a snail in the painting, you may see a turtle instead. So you may have to explain your point of view to people because you can understand some thing but i can also understand other thing.

                  As for Ukraine war crime, i haven’t read and i’m busy but i’m guessing they probably exist. That doesn’t negate Russia war crime.

                  I’m busy, i hope those explainations are enough and wish you a nice morning :)

  • Waryle@jlai.lu
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    Perso leur instance était déjà bloquée sur mon compte. Je les vois comme un 18-25 de JVC mais à gauche et international, les discussions ne volent jamais haut.

    Malheureusement, je vois sur ce post que bloquer l’instance dans les paramètres ne permet pas d’échapper à leurs commentaires, mais bon, jusqu’ici ça ne m’avait pas gêné, donc je ne suis pas spécialement pour les défédérer.

  • anansi@jlai.luM
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    N’ayant fait part d’aucun exemple concret, je ne vois pas pourquoi on défédèrerait d’une instance historique.

    La seule participation active de leurs membres à l’instance, est, de mémoire, dans ce thread, ce qui me semble justifié.

    Si tu ne souhaites pas voir le contenu de hexbear, tu peux la blacklister dans tes options de profil, comme toute autre instance, depuis une ou deux versions de lemmy.

  • happybadger [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    2 months ago

    I also support it. This crying fascist has no place in the fediverse. They’ll contribute nothing to any of our discussions and even in their tantrum post it’s just the same generic meemaw conspiracy theories about everything being secret non-white plots against them. Why bother federating with a community that allows them?

    • leftascenter@jlai.lu
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      2 months ago

      Fash are not welcome here. If you have any relevant posts to share, report them.

      • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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        From a google translate of the post, it looks like general vague slander from OP, even other instance users are asking for examples from OP.

        The linked post is ableist, it uses the word MAGA---- as a derogatory term, and there are conspiracy theories about CPC connection, as well as general anticommunism, which is linked to fascism historically (I recommend reading Blackshirts and Reds).

        • Blaze@lemmy.zip
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          Yeah, it has been pointed out below indeed.

          On the other hand, while OP should indeed provide answers, why would HappyBadger accuse this instance of being fascist? OP only made a proposition, and other instance members immediately asked for evidence to support that proposal.

          • happybadger [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            You could ask me directly instead of whatever this is.

            I accused this user of being a fascist. If 12 people are seated at a table with 1 fascist, tell me how many fascists are seated at that table.

            This user is a fascist because they’re doing the same generic anticommunism routine that all of the right-wing forums do. Create an anticommunist hysteria around a nonsensical boogeyman, widen the net as the next person they disagree with is also part of the sneaky non-white conspiracy against them, ratchet the community rightward. That specific process is why reddit is reddit. If someone’s doing the same old trick on the Fediverse, I don’t care if it’s this forum with 8 monthly users I’ve never seen before or Lemmy.world/Lemm.ee with fresh content feeds. It attracts the same people and ends in the same place.

            This goober thinks they’re being gangstalked by Russian spies because someone on the internet disagreed with 𝓉𝒽𝑒𝒾𝓇 𝓅𝑜𝓈𝒾𝓉𝒾𝑜𝓃. Before you clutch your pearls about me calling them a fascist, the first question you should be asking is what that position is and what’s so offensive about the Hexbear stance on it. Generally if we hate someone or something there’s a pretty good reason for it.

            • anansi@jlai.luM
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              2 months ago

              Tbh, your agressive terminally online ketamine fulled diatribe does not help in giving a good picture of the instance you’re defending.

              Luckily, being a tanky ironically or not is not enough to warrant de-federating from an instance.

              • AntiOutsideAktion [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                You’ve convinced everyone with an attention span too short to read their comment and believe they can get the gist by reading the shorter response.

                Anyone who actually read their comment and your description rightly see you as cowardly, stupid, and unhinged.

                Your backhanded way of avoiding an argument is to paint their comment in a certain light and ignore its content. I haven’t seen anyone say this obvious truth out loud yet so I will.

                • anansi@jlai.luM
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                  Your backhanded way of avoiding an argument is to paint their comment in a certain light and ignore its content. I haven’t seen anyone say this obvious truth out loud yet so I will.

                  The point is that there is no argument in the first place, no one here intends to defederate from hexbear, and you and your mates coming here aggressively and acting like unhinged assholes unprompted in a meta-instance discussion does not help.

                  This post is just OP having his jimmies rumbled and asking if because of it if can cut one of the oldest instance from our fedlist.

                • Camus (il, lui)@jlai.lu
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                  Anyone who actually read their comment and your description rightly see you as cowardly, stupid, and unhinged.

                  Ah oui quand même excuse me wtf

              • ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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                Everyone I don’t agree with is on drugs (which makes them an inferior person not worth listening to), a definitely-not-fascist bedtime story for smug internet liberals.

                • happybadger [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                  To be fair I’d love to write ketamine-fueled rants but it costs like $500 for a dose here. The best I can offer is coffee and sometimes-cannabis-fueled.

                • anansi@jlai.luM
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                  Not only do I disagree with OP and therefore agree with with your mate, but I don’t have any issue with drug use.

                  My issue is with the fact that ketamine fulled drivel is not the best way to communicate with people and be correctly understood, speaking from experience.

              • Camus (il, lui)@jlai.lu
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                Tbh, your agressive terminally online ketamine fulled diatribe does not help in giving a good picture of the instance you’re defending.

                etchebest qui souffle

                Luckily, being a tanky ironically or not is not enough to warrant de-federating from an instance.

                👍

                • hector@sh.itjust.works
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                  Je suis sûr une instance où il y a pleins de communistes et anarchistes et franchement, c’est toujours LA KETAMINE

                  Ils adorent ça je comprends pas. Je te promets, traîne un peu avec eux et tu verras que la kétamine est leur carburant.

                  Pas de problème avec ça mais c’est trop drôle ahaha. Ça les rend imprévisibles et parfois ils font vraiment preuve de mauvaise fois.

                  J’ai jamais eu de problèmes avec eux donc je ne sais pas si c’est juste une chambre d’écho honnêtement !

              • Nakoichi [they/them]@hexbear.net
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                ketamine fulled diatribe

                Everyone that disagrees with me must be on drugs or a russian puppet or mentally ill.

                Fuck all the way off. Go ahead defederate, clearly nothing of value is lost.

              • happybadger [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                Tbh, your agressive terminally online ketamine fulled diatribe does not help in giving a good picture of the instance you’re defending.

                Luckily, being a tanky ironically or not is not enough to warrant de-federating from an instance.

                I already said I want to defederate with you. You get a pass on engaging with this comment because English is your second language.

                • anansi@jlai.luM
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                  Either you believe this term was coined after internet forums started existing, or you’re talking about me writing wrongly “tankie” as “tanky”, which I only did because I have to write in a second language to people too busy licking boots to learn a language different than english.

                  In both case it’s pretty cringe.

            • Blaze@lemmy.zip
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              You could ask me directly instead of whatever this is.

              I asked Cowbee because we had been discussing recently how interactions between Hexbear and other instances sometimes play out, so I thought it would be relevant to have their perspective on this example.

              About the rest of your arguments, seems to have been addressed in this comment: https://hexbear.net/post/3694795/5510986

          • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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            The linked post is ableist, it uses the word MAGA---- as a derogatory term, and there are conspiracy theories about CPC connection, as well as general anticommunism, which is linked to fascism historically (I recommend reading Blackshirts and Reds).

            The comment accused the user of fascism, not necessarily the instance.

            • Camus (il, lui)@jlai.lu
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              2 months ago

              Hello,

              Thank you for commenting here.
              The linked post is there for context, no decision was made at the time, we remained federated with hexbear. We are going to ask the author of that post to edit it.

              For OP, not sure if things got lost in translation, but their point was that “Even without talking about possible links with CCP, Kremlin etc… I think that, in my humble opinion, their behavior and their ways of brigading and defaming an opinion that diverges only slightly from their current of thought, sincerely goes against the state of mind of our community on this instance.”

              So the CPC theories are irrelevant, as OP is strictly referring about brigading

              Not sure why this deserves to be qualified as fascist.

              • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                I have no interest in debating the broader issue, but your bolding here is silly:

                Even without talking about possible links with CCP, Kremlin etc…

                The idea of us being connected to either group is a harebrained conspiracy theory, so I think speaking of it as though it is credible while saying you won’t talk about it is classic apophasis, i.e. a rhetorical device for making insinuations about something you want to denigrate while dodging responsibility for doing so.

                • Camus (il, lui)@jlai.lu
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                  Do you think things would have happened differently if OP has just said “I think that, in my humble opinion, their behavior and their ways of brigading and defaming an opinion that diverges only slightly from their current of thought, sincerely goes against the state of mind of our community on this instance” ?

              • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                That adds clarification. My understanding is that interaction between this instance and Hexbear is limited to begin with due to the French language barrier, ergo brigading doesn’t make sense as a defederation reason, but this isn’t my instance. I do have a Hexbear account, so obviously I am pro-Hexbear.

                Not sure why this deserves to be qualified as fascist.

                Fascism and anticommunism are twins, I recommend checking out the book I linked.

                • anansi@jlai.luM
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                  Fascism and anticommunism are twins, I recommend checking out the book I linked.

                  It’s been a while that I’ve read it but iirc that’s not what is described in the book due to the difference in intent.

                  Anticommunism is born from the ruling/fascist adjacent class to misled less politicized people by manufacturing false consciousness. While anticommunism materialistically helps capitalism and fascism, this is not the intent of the anticommunists, while it is the overt goal of the fascists.

                  A dumbass being anticommunist because of gaslighting is fundamentally different from someone being an actual fascist. The former will still be able to change his mind, the latter won’t because it’s usually coming from it’s material interest.

                  Saying they are twins is not only a misleading, but it also hides the different mechanisms between anticommunism and fascism.

      • AntiOutsideAktion [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        Oh! Let me guess what your problem with that comment is!

        “Pointing out racism is uncivil and deserves undivided scorn” i-am-adolf-hitler

        My guess is influenced by the fact that there isn’t much else to have a problem with

  • eldavi@lemmy.ml
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    2 months ago

    de-federation is effectively a ban and banning at a the instance level creates centralization; which is 100% contrary to the ethos of the fediverse.

    block them yourself; but don’t make that decision for other people who didn’t ask you for it.

      • eldavi@lemmy.ml
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        2 months ago

        You probably wouldn’t want to be federated with 4chan if it was a Lemmy instance, would you? I know I wouldn’t want to habe anything to do with those assholes.

        neither would i and again; i’m not asking anyone to make that choice for me. i’m an adult human being who can make choices for myself and you deciding what’s best for others you don’t know and will never meet makes you no better that spez from reddit.