Post text:
edit: As I’m seeing a lot of worry about the impact this will/could have on the community, please be assured we have the same mod team, and will be holding the community to the same standards. the same things that were always allowed will continue to be allowed and the same things that got things removed before will continue to get things removed before. Lemmy.world admins have agreed to allow us to run our community on our terms. It is my pleasure to announce that effective immediately, we are transferring our community to Lemmy.world! This has been a few months in the making, so my entire mod team is already on board. FAQ: Why? That’s a complicated question with a long answer! The primary difference is moderatorial and ideologial differences between my team and Ada’s excellent team of admins. We are on good terms with Ada and her team, and have gotten her consent to do this. In addition to this, we have had ongoing issues with federation and moderation that has caused a subpar experience for many people on other instances. How does this work? Currently, as there is not an easy way to transfer an entire community (trust me, we checked), we are locking the community as mod-only, and moving our focus to the 196 on lemmy.world. For you guys, functionally nothing has changed. What about the posts? Well, we tried to transfer them, but there was no real way to do so without absolutely destroying lemmy.world’s federation. For this reason, we are simply archiving this community as mod-only. Everything is staying up, you just won’t be able to post new content. Comments are still enabled, so we will continue to check our modlogs for some time after the transfer has settled. As for the posts on lemmy.world’s 196, we’re leaving those up too. From this point onwards, all posts made to that community are beholden to the rules you are all used to, but anything pre-existing is getting grandfathered in.
IF YOU GUYS HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, PLEASE PUT THEM IN THE COMMENTS OF THIS POST, AND I’LL DO MY BEST TO ANSWER THEM. Once again, here’s the link to our new apartment of awesome. (universal: !196@lemmy.world)
PTB. Mod didn’t communicate with any of the users, then moved to the most universally problematic instance that’s not ML-associated. Awesome. Fucking stupid.
I will he blocking the new community and everyone else should too.
Hi there, It’s me, the “power trippin’” mod. If anyone has any questions raised by this post, feel free to ask me and I’ll do my best to answer.
hey i’ve got .world blocked and do not plan to unblock it just because y’all made a hilariously hasty decision. when the man-or-bear thing happened, a frankly stupid amount of folks from there specifically were REALLY VOCAL about their outright misogyny. my experience has been a lot better since.
this was a silly thing to do, and i really don’t see how it aligns with the community’s interests.
Why don’t you unlock !196@lemmy.blahaj.zone and let Blahaj admins deal with the selection of a new mod team?
That does not prevent you from managing !196@lemmy.world
well originally the goal was just to seamlessly transfer things over to lemmy.world, posts and all. over the last few months we tested a couple possibilities with altering databases or using the bot api, but was decided that it wasn’t a feasible option.
what we then intended to do was migrate the community, and leave the previous one up as an archive.
seeing the reception that this decision has garnered, I think that we will leave it locked for a period of time so the people know where the community they are familiar with went.
after that point, there is a decision to be made.think that we will leave it locked for a period of time so the people know where the community they are familiar with went.
It went nowhere, you just locked it without asking the community first.
the only person I would hand over control to is Ada
Then why not do this?
Please unlock the Blahaj 196 comm and hand me moderatorship there. I get you have ideological differences but you don’t get to uproot an entire community over personal concerns.
I for one will not be joining the new one. This is an awful decision.
I’m sorry, but no. the only person I would hand over control to is Ada. despite her policy being cited as a reason for our transition, she’s an effective and consistent admin.
@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone Any chance you could hand over !196@lemmy.blahaj.zone to me or other mods?
If this goes through and the original community stays locked this is going to be a huge blow to the trans and queer community on Lemmy. :(
I got to say the real cringe is that such a decision took months for their mods and they had to discuss with admins of both sites. Just move the community and be done with it. I hate mods acting like they have some huge job especially on lemmy when the mod log is slow and barren.
lol, according to the admin of blahai, they didn’t even talk to her: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/12466657
Ada gets a super bad rep by people who haven’t read anything from them directly. I love how in this response some of that is explained as in inheriting the drama caused by others that Ada had to go in and clean up after.
I respect Ada all the more now as a result of their words here.
Yeah the 196 mods saying they had beef with Ada doesn’t make me think 196 needed to move, it makes me think they need to learn to listen better. Ada isn’t perfect, but they’re consistently calm headed and even handed. Lemmy.world’s admin team on the other hand is…
Look.
The 196 mods are telling us more about themselves than anyone else right now.
Ada’s post and comments regarding neopronouns is a classic: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/20091173
Why would they move from blaahaj to .world? That doesn’t do any good for the Fediverse…
“lack of local moderators” seems to sum it up. the mods just didnt want to use blahaj accounts
Especially since lots of instances defed world and their rules aren’t as inclusive or protective as Blåhaj.
Maybe because of the whole “respect all user-specified-pronouns no matter how ridiculous they are” instance rule that was added a few weeks ago?
To put this another way, does respecting “dragonfucker’s” requested pronouns of “drag” and “drag” do more good or more harm for the community?
196 mods were working on doing this even before that, but that was actually not the first time that Ada had to make an announcement post about that exact policy. I saw it first come up in Blahaj Meta many months ago in the events that eventually led to me taking a mod position at LibertyHub
Because blaahaj isn’t bootlicker enough for them?
This seems like it belongs more to fedilore, rather than here. Should I be allowing these posts? Rfc I guess
I think so because it’s a power tripping mod taking their ball and going home with it rather than let someone else play ball too.
It’s lore too but this is moderation bs.
leave it up please this is very relevant to the PTB model
What is RFC? I don’t see it in the sidebar, I did a search and only found your previous post. If this is a new term, can you add it there to aid those of us with poor memories?:-D
Request for comments
Request for change, it’s more of open source/programming thing than this comm thing.
No. Request for Comments. RFCs are nearly finished proposals. They’re ways of projects to make announcements with a little bit of flexibility.
Ah, so they are. The ones I’ve read have always been pretty prescriptive so I just assumed the c meant change.
I think it fits. Mods could move to another instance, create a new community, post about it, etc. without fucking with the existing one.
Locking the posts on their way out seems like a spite move against all the people not wanting to transfer (a lot, based on the comments). They could jusy as easily hand the community over to new mods instead of killing it. Seems like it’s be better for the community and the fediverse in general and align better with what the community wants.
Locking posts with links to the other community is pretty standard practice. See !carnivore and !television or !carnivore@lemmy.world and !television@lemmy.world
!carnivore@lemmy.world was locked because it was a community allowing harassment
!television@lemmy.world didn’t cause any uproar as the moderation was similar between LW and Lemm.ee, and the communities were very similar as well.
In this case there are more than 250 comments on that post, the vast majority of them being negative. Not sure the situations are similar.
After they leave, Ada could easily grant a request to open it back up under a different set of mods… you know, if someone were to want that sort of thing.:-D
might be a bit borderline but probably fine, although it seems more like flouncing off than power tripping. would need more of a writeup to be drama/lore
someone on hexbear has posted blahaj admin ada’s message to the 196 mod team, relevant quote:
I have asked 196 for years now to have an active blahaj.zone mod so that someone can deal with the blahaj.zone reports that constantly come through and build up, but still, the best we got were mods with alt accounts that get checked every couple of days, leaving me to deal with the build up of reports on 196. Sometimes they would hang around there for days while I waited for a 196 mod to log in and look at them. And because you don’t like the way I deal with them, you drag me over the coals for my moderation style, despite no one from 196 stepping up to deal with those reports on a regular basis.
full text here https://lemm.ee/post/52977833/17597222
CLM
That throws the whole thing into a little bit of a new light. Moving to the community where it’ll be actively moderated makes quite a bit of sense to me, even if that means lemmy.world.
Then again, supposedly working moderation for moderators on remote instances is just around the corner with the next release. I don’t know if that is accurate, but this might have been a problem that was solvable if they were willing to wait a couple of months.
I’d rather less moderation than bad moderation.
moderation is working, generally. it’s the lack of full report federation that is the primary issue currently.
So as long as you don’t need to see any of the reports, you can moderate. Got it. That’s exactly what I would describe as working, “generally.”
On the other hand, that won’t come out until 0.19.20 reportedly, at the earliest, while iirc it’s been a year since Lemmy.World upgraded to 0.19.3, and were planning on doing an upgrade in January/February. So it could be another full year after the Fediverse gets it but before it appears on Lemmy.World? 😜
More to the point though, how do moderators of one of the most active and perhaps controversial communities across all of Lemmy not bother to check in for two days most of the time? The way this post words things, Ada is the one being abused here, even as they are being thrown under the bus for not doing all of the moderation work to their satisfaction. If I were Ada, I’d be somewhat happy to see them go (though sad for the actual users who get caught up in all this drama).
Yeah, I thought it was planned for 0.20.
I think lemmy.world is the slowest to upgrade of all the instances. I’m not sure which party in the moderation will need to upgrade in order to make the thing work, but you might well be right that it won’t work for lemmy.world users until lemmy.world upgrades, which would mean maybe waiting six months to a year or so before things are actually working. Yet another reason not to mess around with lemmy.world, maybe.
And I completely agree with your assessment. It sounds to me, reading between the lines, like they were shamelessly abusing Ada’s volunteerism until it reached its breaking point, and then at that point instead of owning up to the real reasons why they need to move, they’re framing it as “moderatorial and ideologial differences” and “We are on good terms with Ada and her team, and have gotten her consent to do this.” and similar responsibility-avoidant bollocks.
Maybe I’m absolutely wrong about that, it’s hard to tell looking in from the outside from a single message. But that’s my initial read on the situation if I had to take a guess about it.
0.20 is 3-6 months out according to Nutomic.
Additionally, here’s a quite detailed post on why it has taken LW so long to update this past year. I would hope not every patch would have this much delay.
Thanks
Ah. Well, forget what I said about a couple of months then… somehow I was still working on a timeline where it was estimated to be this month, but I think that was from quite a while ago, so it makes sense if it’s not accurate anymore.
The month timeline might be when Lemmy.World planned to update. But even then, they usually pick one that is a few steps behind. So perhaps in a month they’ll get 0.19.17?
I think the power tripping element here is that this seemingly happened in an instant without any (recent?) warning or communication to the users and it has to do with one of the biggest communities on lemmy
Though this isnt the typical senario where a mod abuses their power over an individual, so hmm
(I searched some fediverse drama communities, but didnt cover this issue.)
On the one hand it does seem a bit out of place, on the other hand if the mod team is doing this against most community members wishes it is kind of a power trip in a way?
Personally I think it fits, which is why I posted.
I didn’t mean to sidestep the rules and will ofc take down the post if that’s what you want.
I agree the lore site is better
The mandate of power tripping bastards, seems to be if the complaint is true, then there are actionable next steps. Censure from the community, elevating to admin, etc
then there are actionable next steps. Censure from the community, elevating to admin, etc
Blahaj admin taking over and unlocking the community seems like an actionable next step
Yeah thats a good point, I suppose I subconsciously took them at their word they had coordinated with the admin teams of both the source and destination instances already.
I’m not sure, where’s the power tripping?
It sounds like a well coordinated transition between servers.
Locking up the community on they’re way out may have been well coordinated, but it isn’t well received.
It feels a lot more like capitalism than community: Listen up, I own the deed to this community and my property rights are supreme.
I guess I joined lemmy just in time for all the chisme 🫖☕
Edit: a word
Welcome!
Well coordinated, except for the fact that the community itself seems to hate the idea.
I saw a comment who was like “this is the most Reddit thing I’ve ever seen on Lemmy, and that says a lot”
It’s not, most of the users on !196@lemmy.blahaj.zone would prefer that community to stay open, wherever the mod team wants to go.
The comments in the pinned thread there are pretty unanimous.
I dunno, it seems like an inevitable move to me tbh. Ada’s moderation has never coexisted comfortably with the 196 community. Remember when blajah started welcoming in an influx of tankies because of “inclusivity”? 196 is an explicitly anti-tankie community, so that never sat well with them.
Tankies defederated Blahaj later on IIRC
True, but damage was done I guess.
By that logic the last LW decision should also discourage people to move there https://lemmy.world/post/24135976
[…] There’s a small handful of self-selected moderators who are very transparently looking to push their particular narrative. And they don’t want to allow discussion. They want to function as propaganda and an incubator. Our goal is to allow a few pinholes of light into the Truman show they wish to create. When those users’ pinholes are systematically shut down, we as admins can directly fix the issue.
That policy seems more targeted towards censorious tankie mods than any other group, although they didn’t say so out loud.
Edit: Also looks like they are revising it yet again lol.
Also looks like they are revising it yet again lol.
Indeed
